Hit Point / Mana Point regeneration

[Carthes]

Right now, when my team is able to kill the enemies before they get a chance to fight, no MP regen from Dasha happens. Same with HP regen from Sip of Vitality. It looks like both regen are applied at the end of an enemy turn, rather than the player's team.

It would be nice if the heal/regen was applied at the start or end of every combat round for the player, (not sure which is better for balance), because otherwise it is possible for the first few spellcasters to run out of mana despite having 5mp/turn and other mana regen items. Ditto healing: it will only happen each ambush, getting you one turn's worth of healing every handful of fights rather than at least once per level.

This is a great incremental/idle game by the way... lots of care put into the art, some hilarious looking enemies, and I love the item diversity, the soda/relic system, and the ability to make focused 'builds' and save loadouts. More depth than I expected!

[Overeagerdragon]

A tip; grind level 1-150 a couple of times with as high Item find you can trying to obtain some Anti-Magic Bottles....ince you have 2; the game basically is over. 2 darkmages with an anti magic bottle each and you'll die before you ever run out of mana again seeing as their spells scale of MP and MAG%....by the time you reach half of their mana you'll have found a fountain again

[Carthes]

I am at level 2771 Dungeon and 1641 Lair of Despair currently. The MP regen problem still applies, because once they have cast all their MP (370 mana right now for my Darkmages), they will only regen when my team does not kill off the enemies first.

This is what happens[i.imgur.com]: empty mana despite Level 6 Dasha, at +6MP/turn, and at only level 166 or so. With Anti-Magic Bottles they would run out around level 400, but I am doing auto runs starting from the beginning and going as far as possible.

[richttaylor]

Once you hit the warrior dimension you throw a few hundred levels on to your mana artifact and never have mana issues again because you'll always get a fountain before it runs out. I did have them for first couple days of warrior dimension while I was getting the different things upgraded. Now my base mana is over 2,000 and it's never been an issue and I can focus on other, much more important upgrades.

[Carthes]

Why wouldn't your pets heal/regen your team before or after each battle they survive, before descending another level? Does anyone disagree with this? Of course almost everything in this entire game can be solved by grinding more and investing essence, but do you disagree with my original point that the regen mechanic is not being applied logically?

If you had a single hero that was able to nuke the enemy team in one shot every time, it would still die relatively soon because of ambushes. Even if this hero succeeded in utterly destroying a hundred levels solo at low health, after an ambush, your pet will not have healed or regenerated mana once in between all hundred rounds. That is just counterintuitive to the point of making all regen armor, accessories, pets and sodas nearly bottom priority.

Keep in mind that this is more significant for new/lower level players, when the gold spent on Sip of Vitality, Dasha or Tufts will end up looking really underwhelming.

[Banzai]

Originally posted by Carthes:

Yes, sure, of course I can do both. But I am pointing out how the regen mechanic is counterintuitively applied only after the enemy turn and not at the start of each level, or after each level that your team survives. Which makes the HP/MP regen investments almost useless because they will only go into effect a fraction of the levels you do.

I generally agree but I suspect it's intentional so you can't just set auto-battle and finish the game easily. The game seems to be tuned so that you can progress decently using auto-battle, but if you want to really kick some butt you need to jump in and manually control every once in a while. I use auto 95% of the time, and check on them occasionally. If they need heals or mana etc I jump in and do whats needed, and then turn auto back on.

Same reason healers don't use group heal unless manually controlled most likely.

[Violesta]

thanks about group heal was wondering if that was working or not & i do auto runs completely myself while im working (shh).

[UIY]

Just wait till you get to level 5k plus, healing is pointless and the only viable options are 4DM / 1Shifter or 4Thieves and a Shifter , if you are using heals or health regen at that level just slap yourself, not even full regen is enough to help you at that point, yay i gained 200 life but I have 20k life and am missing half, doesn't do much good ya know ^^ have fun with that regen build though can't say I would ever try it just due to the low amounts you get. Even gaining 1500 per turn wouldnt be enough.

[Banzai]

Originally posted by Zamasu:

Just wait till you get to level 5k plus, healing is pointless and the only viable options are 4DM / 1Shifter or 4Thieves and a Shifter , if you are using heals or health regen at that level just slap yourself, not even full regen is enough to help you at that point, yay i gained 200 life but I have 20k life and am missing half, doesn't do much good ya know ^^ have fun with that regen build though can't say I would ever try it just due to the low amounts you get. Even gaining 1500 per turn wouldnt be enough.

Yup, at higher levels it's all about instakilling everything. You don't really need heals if you can kill all of them before they can touch you. That said, in earlier levels healers are useful for getting you to WD. Currently using 4 DM + Shifter (Thief/Knight) for my high level runs.

[Carthes]

This was never a discussion of whether regen stat is viable for long term use. You may as well be arguing that all regen sources be removed from the game because it is in your view, pointless. My point is that it has its place for players within a certain phase of the game, and it has utility that should be considered better.

All I am saying is make the regen proc at the start or end of all player rounds, not after enemy rounds. That is it. Agree/disagree?

[Dr]

Once you get into WD they basically become pointless. It gets to the point where either you one shot the enemys or they one shot you. At this stage its worth it just to have a knight to get fountains. Knights also prevent ambushes so you always go first.

[Overeagerdragon]

Originally posted by Carthes:

I am at level 2771 Dungeon and 1641 Lair of Despair currently. The MP regen problem still applies, because once they have cast all their MP (370 mana right now for my Darkmages), they will only regen when my team does not kill off the enemies first.

This is what happens[i.imgur.com]: empty mana despite Level 6 Dasha, at +6MP/turn, and at only level 166 or so. With Anti-Magic Bottles they would run out around level 400, but I am doing auto runs starting from the beginning and going as far as possible.

This is not to rag on you in whatever form but you DO realise that DM dps scales on Max-MP and MAG% right? I'm around lvl 15K and my DM's have more MP than they have HP.

Originally posted by Zamasu IDLE:

Just wait till you get to level 5k plus, healing is pointless and the only viable options are 4DM / 1Shifter or 4Thieves and a Shifter , if you are using heals or health regen at that level just slap yourself, not even full regen is enough to help you at that point, yay i gained 200 life but I have 20k life and am missing half, doesn't do much good ya know ^^ have fun with that regen build though can't say I would ever try it just due to the low amounts you get. Even gaining 1500 per turn wouldnt be enough.

Same; you realise Healer healing is scaled of their MAX HP right?

Not that it matters because 20K hp heals are uselessat this point...either I kill the enemy or one Partymember dies per turn per monster still alive after the opening round. There's simply no way to survive 20K hp hits. *Unless I go crazy stcking the HP soda with essences....but why do so when MAG% and MP+ give way more "bang" for my buck.

[Carthes]

Thanks, I understand the scaling now. It was not evident from the game itself though. I am at dungeon level 10770 at the moment, up from 2770 when I first posted. I have the HP soda at 700+, and max MP/Mag% at 300+, so I am making steady progress.

I STILL think the way regen is designed should be slightly adjusted, while you're all still going on about how it becomes moot for those in WD.

I get that this is a game designed around grinding, but you may as well be saying that all items in the game besides what you are wearing now should be deleted from the game, because they become irrelevant at end game. Please keep in mind the experience of others at earlier stages of the game, especially without knowing what investments give the best effective returns for efficient spending and the time it takes to earn.

[Jester5093]

This is more of ideas for SD2. Yes, this is a large limitation in the game. Makes most gear and most pets pointless. Such is life.

[Suasa]

I run 1healer/4 soda junkies with max evade/damage reduction. As long as the enemies miss I get 100 hp back. Sip of vitality is useful at low levels, but starts getting weaker by 5k levels or so, as previously mentionned.

Yes, it's kind of counter-intuitive, if you want to use HP/MP regen you have to expect to be hit.