Is it really fair to allow achievements to be unlocked in 2+ lives co-op?

[Melody]

I mean, people can respawn indefinitely and there's no challenge, so a lot of achievements are way too easy to get.

My idea is restricting co-op achievements to 1-life co-op mode. Co-op achievements shouldn't be allowed in 2+ lives co-op mode because it doesn't make any sense: players can respawn in place and continue playing even though they died. What are they achieving then? Finishing campaign after dying 135981359 times? Doesn't make sense.

In Singleplayer, you must reload a savegame in order to continue, you're not immortal. In that case, you're actually achieving the achievement.

[Acute]

But can you use quick save on co-op every 2 seconds like you can on single player? Might as well rename the achievement "Friendship killer". However, it feels like a real achievement to me since I got a friend of mine to buy all of the SS games.

[rubregg]

I agree with Melody.

[BorealPaella]

Originally posted by Melody~:

I mean, people can respawn indefinitely and there's no challenge, so a lot of achievements are way too easy to get.

My idea is restricting co-op achievements to 1-life co-op mode. Co-op achievements shouldn't be allowed in 2+ lives co-op mode because it doesn't make any sense: players can respawn in place and continue playing even though they died. What are they achieving then? Finishing campaign after dying 135981359 times? Doesn't make sense.

In Singleplayer, you must reload a savegame in order to continue, you're not immortal. In that case, you're actually achieving the achievement.

I get your point,but multiplayer shouldn't be about difficulty really.It should be more on the fun side of things.It's a lot easier to play on the higher difficulties too as you have multiple people shooting.
Also,keep in mind that there are people who aren't great at video games.Do you expect them to die then be forced to look for another match if they want to get the achievements?This is ridiculous,not to say how this game's playerbase in multiplayer is minuscule.This will lower the playerbase even more,even if it's a thing just for achievements.
Your way of thinking is severly flawed and I'm pretty sure you are someone with a lot of experience with the Serious Sam games.Think about the new people.This entire thread sounds like you just want to make X achievement harder to get to be one of the few people who do have it so that you can have bragging rights.Also Pray's argument regarding quick saving is great.I use it a ♥♥♥♥ ton when I'm playing on Serious and I doubt I'd be able to do as much without spamming the hell out of saves.
If cooperative in this game worked this way since the dawn of time,I'm pretty sure it's solid.Croteam would've gotten lots of backlash otherwise and they'd be forced to change the system.

[rubregg]

You know what the word "achievement" actually means, right? I never saw the point in coop games with infinite lives. What's even the point in a game that you cannot lose?

Same with infinite ammo. BUT I'm not saying get rid of these options. If people enjoy playing the game with infinite lives and/or ammo that's fine, each to their own. Just, you shouldn't get achievements for it because you haven't really *achieved* anything.

[BorealPaella]

Originally posted by rubregg:

You know what the word "achievement" actually means, right? I never saw the point in coop games with infinite lives. What's even the point in a game that you cannot lose?

Same with infinite ammo. BUT I'm not saying get rid of these options. If people enjoy playing the game with infinite lives and/or ammo that's fine, each to their own. Just, you shouldn't get achievements for it because you haven't really *achieved* anything.

The infinite lives make sure that everyone actually gets to play without getting kicked out of a match when they lose all their lives.I covered that in the original reply.What's the point in playing coop games if one of your friends consumes all his lives and he can't join in anymore?
Also what was the last game that you played which had any difficult achievements to get?Almost nobody bothers with frustratingly difficult achievements anymore because they kill the fun if you like going for achievements.Take some of Half Life 2's achievements such as the one in which you never need to touch the sand in that part with the antilons.Do you think that that achievement is not a fun killer?It's not like anyone will care if you got it,not even yourself.

The achievement for finishing everything on serious in coop for instance it's already time consuming.If it also becomes difficult thanks to limited lives it will just be a slog to go through,not to say how you need to group up with competent players to achieve it.I understand that you both like achievements but they are nothing but confidence boosters.Do they really matter at all?Also,I'm pretty sure you can disable infinite ammo.I hate infinite ammo myself.You can just spam the ♥♥♥♥ out of the best weapons without thinking twice.

[Melody]

Well, games must be fun for everyone and I agree with that, people should be able to play infinity lives co-op games perfectly fine. I still don't get the point on allowing achievement unlocking in 2+ lives coop games, doesn't make any sense in that case. Achievement unlocking should only be allowed in 1-life co-op games and unmodified difficulty (no infinite ammo and no other stuff). You're actually not achieving anything if you can die 1938413948 times and respawn in place everytime, or spamming like hell with infinite ammo.

[MASTAN]

Originally posted by Melody~:

Well, games must be fun for everyone and I agree with that, people should be able to play infinity lives co-op games perfectly fine. I still don't get the point on allowing achievement unlocking in 2+ lives coop games, doesn't make any sense in that case. Achievement unlocking should only be allowed in 1-life co-op games and unmodified difficulty (no infinite ammo and no other stuff). You're actually not achieving anything if you can die 1938413948 times and respawn in place everytime, or spamming like hell with infinite ammo.

You're achieving what achievement description says. Nothing more, nothing less.

Or maybe you want to remove achievements like "Complete any level in single player" as you "actually not achieving anything" by doing it on first level of FE on tourist difficulty?

[Melody]

Originally posted by MASTAN:

Originally posted by Melody~:

Well, games must be fun for everyone and I agree with that, people should be able to play infinity lives co-op games perfectly fine. I still don't get the point on allowing achievement unlocking in 2+ lives coop games, doesn't make any sense in that case. Achievement unlocking should only be allowed in 1-life co-op games and unmodified difficulty (no infinite ammo and no other stuff). You're actually not achieving anything if you can die 1938413948 times and respawn in place everytime, or spamming like hell with infinite ammo.

You're achieving what achievement description says. Nothing more, nothing less.

Or maybe you want to remove achievements like "Complete any level in single player" as you "actually not achieving anything" by doing it on first level of FE on tourist difficulty?

I'm talking about co-op: What skill does it require to unlock any achievement by respawning in place 9213891358 times and/or using infinite ammo? Tourist is still an unmodified difficulty, so it's allowed, and allows all people of all skill levels to enjoy the game, though having infinite lives and infinite ammo doesn't make any sense for achievement unlocking.

[MASTAN]

Originally posted by Melody~:

Originally posted by MASTAN:

You're achieving what achievement description says. Nothing more, nothing less.

Or maybe you want to remove achievements like "Complete any level in single player" as you "actually not achieving anything" by doing it on first level of FE on tourist difficulty?

I'm talking about co-op: What skill does it require to unlock any achievement by respawning in place 9213891358 times and/or using infinite ammo? Tourist is still an unmodified difficulty, so it's allowed, and allows all people of all skill levels to enjoy the game, though having infinite lives and infinite ammo doesn't make any sense for achievement unlocking.

Achievement is an achievement, coop or not.
Unmodified classic coop has infinite lives, so it's all legal.

[Melody]

Originally posted by MASTAN:

Originally posted by Melody~:

I'm talking about co-op: What skill does it require to unlock any achievement by respawning in place 9213891358 times and/or using infinite ammo? Tourist is still an unmodified difficulty, so it's allowed, and allows all people of all skill levels to enjoy the game, though having infinite lives and infinite ammo doesn't make any sense for achievement unlocking.

Achievement is an achievement, coop or not.
Unmodified classic coop has infinite lives, so it's all legal.

You're actually not achieving anything if you're immortal.
Example, in Cities: Skylines there are a lot of achievements. You can't get any of them if you set unlimited money (which is basically the same thing) and I agree with that. In Serious Sam, you can still "achieve" achievements by baltantly cheating (infinite ammo and infinite lives).

[MASTAN]

Having save system, player is also immortal. Especially so if you can save after every enemy killed. So, why give any achievements to those using saves in your logic?

[Melody]

Originally posted by MASTAN:

Having save system, player is also immortal. Especially so if you can save after every enemy killed. So, why give any achievements to those using saves in your logic?

No, you're not immortal. You have to "go back in the past" and retry, so you're actually not immortal.

[Acute]

Originally posted by Melody~:

No, you're not immortal. You have to "go back in the past" and retry, so you're actually not immortal.

Lul, maybe 5 seconds in my case on SS:TFE. That game is hard on Serious. Maybe 16 player co-op is doable except for that 16 players part.

[Ryason55]

You say "a lot of achievements", but Serious Co-op is the only one that's supposed to have any amount of difficulty. Co-op Beginner and Co-op Hippy can be achieved easily by just running through Hatshepsut on a private one-man Co-op server, and Co-op Survivor takes place in Survival.

As it is, Serious Co-op is more of a marathon than anything, considering it spans 3 games at this point, which also requires the user to own all of those games. Do also consider that Serious Co-op is currently one of the least-achieved achievements, tied with the achievement for completing all the campaigns on Serious in Singleplayer. If you really want an achievement that even less people will get, ask for the Coin-op Co-op achievement to come back.

[Melody]

Originally posted by Ryason55:

You say "a lot of achievements", but Serious Co-op is the only one that's supposed to have any amount of difficulty. Co-op Beginner and Co-op Hippy can be achieved easily by just running through Hatshepsut on a private one-man Co-op server, and Co-op Survivor takes place in Survival.

As it is, Serious Co-op is more of a marathon than anything, considering it spans 3 games at this point, which also requires the user to own all of those games. Do also consider that Serious Co-op is currently one of the least-achieved achievements, tied with the achievement for completing all the campaigns on Serious in Singleplayer. If you really want an achievement that even less people will get, ask for the Coin-op Co-op achievement to come back.

Well, just saying that if you can respawn 1394813598 times and use infinite ammo, it's not fair and you're actually not achieving anything. It shouldn't be intended to be this way, where's the challenge?