Necron Lord OP? By Now, That Should Be Obvious.

[CryHavoc1134]

For starters, getting DLC for a game that I once thought dead is rather nice. The fact that said DLC is free just makes it all the better. I’m thankful to the Devs for doing this and have had fun playing.

With that established, there really should not be a debate on the nature of Necron Lord being over powered. To anyone who has played The Last Stand enough to learn the ins and outs of the game, it becomes somewhat obvious.

No other character even comes close to simultaneous survivability and damage potential. He is capable of extreme damage to high value targets and mobs with most weapons. Even the ranged weapons, which wreck, do decent damage in melee, and there are very few negatives to any build. Simply put, NL has all of the benefits of each race (minus mobility) without the severe drawbacks presented to the other commanders.

Ex1: Sorcerer can have deathless armor, but with a 4 armor rating which means you have to be cautious and think ahead to stay alive (NL can get deathless with an insane armor rating, therefore no drawbacks).

Ex2: Tau commander, who was the most OP character until the NL surfaced (no pun intended), has insane damage output but cannot attack in melee directly (the shield pulse is a power) and must rely on mobility to survive. I’ve tested the NL’s ranged weapons in melee combat with enemies like banshees (one shot kills them) or Ogryns (takes a few whacks, but he can last long enough to dish it out).

Again, no drawbacks usually associated with a ranged weapon. Compare that to the Space Marine Captain or the Hive Tyrant’s melee capabilities with ranged weapons equipped and there isn’t even an argument to be made.

Ex3: With any other commander, being simultaneously assaulted by nine, full squads of Storm Troopers, two tanks and a mosh pit of Ogryns is a serious situation. For the NL, it is foreplay. And hey, even if the person playing the NL messes up and goes down, there is armor that self revives, every time, in seconds.

Now, I’ve seen people say anyone can beat Anvil of Khorne because it is easier than Bloodied Colosseum. Maybe, but beating three NL clones is very easy as well thanks to the tesseract (self-revive armor removed from the equation, or 16 can feel like Sisyphus pushing a rock up a hill for eternity). With the lvl 20 NL unlock, beating the last wave of BC with one other random NL and a rookie, lvl 8 ork who did not know what he was doing, was only marginally more difficult than the other 19 waves.

My case is simple. Playing as the NL is essentially a cakewalk, and I am quoting a random I beat AoK with while our third member remained AFK for the entire duration of the match. The learning curve for the NL is, to say the least, easy to conquer. Beating wave 20 on either map should not be a near certainty with any build, especially with randoms and next to no communication. With the NL, it takes effort to not achieve very high waves repeatedly with next to no finesse required.

Again, thanks to the Devs for putting the work in. This kind of generosity is definitely rare in this industry, and it is very much appreciated. While I believe the NL is OP, it is still fun to play with.

[ftb]

"Starter pack" DLC i'd call it
for newcomers

[G.C._madGin]

Originally posted by FtB:

"Starter pack" DLC i'd call it
for newcomers

Only problem with that is when they finally decide to try other heroes and quickly find them lacking lol.

So my suggestion as before, hold off nerfing the Necron Lord, and give some love to the old heroes that need it, like the Lord General and such. Then if the necron lord still stands far ahead of them, hit him with a few nerf guns.

[Enemyz]

I found hes pretty boring to play tbh. Single target dps is great but he's pretty slow at killing packs. I still think the Tau is more op.

[name]

Well...Venom Cannon actually do insane melee damage,just that most of the so called Hive Tyrant ranged build didn't have enough survivability to support her for go melee...which was mostly not a problem with Overlord.
In fact with Venom Cannon you can CC a tank faster then most of weapons from Overlord arsenal (Voidreaper was the only exception actually).

[CryHavoc1134]

Originally posted by Enemyz:

I found hes pretty boring to play tbh. Single target dps is great but he's pretty slow at killing packs. I still think the Tau is more op.

If you believe his pack damage is weak, you are using the wrong weapons. The melee weapon granted for completing 100 rounds has an AoE strike that wrecks everything around the NL and stuns what isn't outright killed. Also, the ranged staff earned around lvl 16, can't remember the name, has a blast attack that carves swaths through groups like no other. The life drain takes care of lesser enemies rather quickly in a large area. Or, you could just use the original melee weapon and use the void wall ability to carve up groups. So, so many options.

Fyi, I'm not calling for a nerf. This was a FREE gift, and I am happy to have recieved it. Calling for additional work seems a tad greedy. I just wanted to put my thoughts out regarding the debate, or lack there of in my humble opinion.

[Caduceus]

Originally posted by G.C._madGin:

Originally posted by FtB:

"Starter pack" DLC i'd call it
for newcomers

Only problem with that is when they finally decide to try other heroes and quickly find them lacking lol.

So my suggestion as before, hold off nerfing the Necron Lord, and give some love to the old heroes that need it, like the Lord General and such. Then if the necron lord still stands far ahead of them, hit him with a few nerf guns.

I'm going to agree here.

If we're all throwing in our opinions, here's mine: Leave him alone. Give heroes balanced largely after the first iteration of Last Stand some much needed love. Fix Lord General's years-old issues, and bring everybody else up to speed with the two DLC gentlemen.

[Sir Cookiemon]

So what would be the point of making all of them as strong as the Overlord? Might as well not paly the mode anymore because then you can AFK till wave 20 on 10 instead of 1 charakter.

No what they should do is give all the heroes a bugfix, give all of them a passive commander item (like the necrons +50 armor) and then balance them around the original ones or the Chaos Sorcerer. Latter is a bit more powerful than the original ones IMO but needs a lot of active involevement. The general is just plain bad in most comparisons and the Hive Tyrant and Tau have clear drawbacks to their powerful sides.
The Necron Lord? No flaw - the only thing that would make this thing more OP would be an accessory that gave them access to a teleport.

[Caduceus]

Originally posted by Sir Cookiemon:

So what would be the point of making all of them as strong as the Overlord? Might as well not paly the mode anymore because then you can AFK till wave 20 on 10 instead of 1 charakter.

No what they should do is give all the heroes a bugfix, give all of them a passive commander item (like the necrons +50 armor) and then balance them around the original ones or the Chaos Sorcerer. Latter is a bit more powerful than the original ones IMO but needs a lot of active involevement. The general is just plain bad in most comparisons and the Hive Tyrant and Tau have clear drawbacks to their powerful sides.
The Necron Lord? No flaw - the only thing that would make this thing more OP would be an accessory that gave them access to a teleport.

Uh, you must not know of the Phase Shifter accessory....

So now that people can actually regularly reach wave twenty, Last Stand is obsolete? You'd rather we return to a time where difficulty trumps enjoyment? A time where only gimmick builds ever reached Gabriel or the Chaos Lord?

Is Last Stand about fulfillment over entertainment?

At least we agree that some fixes for the more antiquated heroes are necessary.

[Sir Cookiemon]

I forgot there is no inflection on the internet and everyone and their mother needs a /s tag to recognize sarcasm ...

and yes I'd rather not have Farseers using the Witchblade of Isha in combination with the Pistol of the Warseer reach wave 20 - because that is so stupid it literally deserves to die.
Our definitions of fulfilment probably vary as well, for me there is no fulfilment in just planting down my hero and AFK till wave 12 or so to toggle on an ability once per wave till 20. The lack of challenge makes the reward more or less worthless to me.

[Sca]

buhuhu NL is to OP in a PVE modus

[Khalagar]

I agree that buffing the others to the same status as Necron Lord would be bad too. Last Stand would be too easy then. They could buff the others then ALSO buff Last Stand to be harder which would solve both problems

[Metharius]

Originally posted by G.C._madGin:

Originally posted by FtB:

"Starter pack" DLC i'd call it
for newcomers

Only problem with that is when they finally decide to try other heroes and quickly find them lacking lol.

So my suggestion as before, hold off nerfing the Necron Lord, and give some love to the old heroes that need it, like the Lord General and such. Then if the necron lord still stands far ahead of them, hit him with a few nerf guns.

that s stupid the other are already op

maybe you are to young or just new and never felt it .

play DOW II classic TLS . THAT was a real challenge

when i jump to retribution (when i was kind of forced to)
tau commander , tyranids perma shield ...

seriously even the base one wth thoses OP stuff, the challenge in BC only start at wave 16 now...
and it s only because you face your clone ...

so no, if you wanna consider necron lord op, that s just because he is new and have a full stat build.. the one that juts can t be good in BC .


AoK is a walk in the park
BC is only hard because of your clone.

if you wanna do something then it s nerfing the ♥♥♥♥ out of all the character ... or buff the maps ...
because buffing character like the farseer who can already solo both map is just stupid.

bring back the challenge

bring back the tension of wave 10 and above where you had to use cover against wave 10 or be cautious at wave 9 due to banshee....
when you FKING HAD TO USE COOP !

[Kronus]

Actually folks there is a big flaw to the necron lord, it's called wave 16 and 20. Not so fun when you have to face them yourself

[๖ۣۜInvincible ๖ۣۜThor๖]

Originally posted by Picchia:

Originally posted by KronusX:

Actually folks there is a big flaw to the necron lord, it's called wave 16 and 20. Not so fun when you have to face them yourself

I think wave 16 and 20 are not very fun in general. Especially with low health and high dps characters.

That's why I play Anvil most of the time.

[G.C._madGin]

Originally posted by Metharius:

snip

The others are all OP? lol good one . Also could do without you implying I'm a child or a noob for not appealing to your veiws, as it shows a great deal of immaturity on your end when you talk down to people like that.

Also to expand on what I said there so there is no more confusion. There are quite a few characters that had massively inferior gear/setups. The number of items that are just flat out ignored in their current states (due to being not worth taking) is too much...I meant fix those character's items and make them useful. Not OP, just useful. Something actually worth taking.

Also if certain gear/builds on the older characters were miles ahead of the rest of the setups (aka they could easily solo) then yeah hit it with the nerf gun as well. Nothing in this should be OP/easy mode, but at the same time, you shouldn't leave several characters in such a weak state. Bring on some more diversity in the actually good/viable builds . With only two maps, your character setup is what keeps people playing. More options = more play time before you get bored. Just my opinion there though.