My thoughts about rank system

[Zoey♥]

Hello i will try to stay calm during this thread but i really need to "evacuate"

The problem i have with this rank system it doesnt reward actual good players, it rewards the people who have too much time in their hands so as a consequence we will see some players in top 20 who are not great at the game that most of the time ruins the others game because they cant really LISTEN the advices or stuff we ask, just blind play until the mission is a succesful but on harder diffuclty such as rng4 where it could take like 20+ tries to win (if the team is correct of coruse :b) but with someone that actully doesnt listen so we fail over and over and after we do over 150 tries it's just boring and frustrating

And it really annoys me to see a not a good player being almost top 1 for me it doesnt represent a good image of the game and most of the time those people are often getting carried, playing vanilla until some good players joins their lobby then switch to ASBI ( you could say the same for me but i dont care)

For me this rank system only brings me frustration to see such ugly things in the top 20

This in a grind system it is not for actual good players

Maybe it was the attentions of the devs since the begining but for me i dont like it

[Ax-now]

For me the ranking brings just a little more, it's only a reason to grind the game to recover nice rewinds, it's on that a ranking based on farming has nothing to do with a competitive ranking.

And that's also why, I think, there are several stats displayed: Aliens Eliminated / Team Kills / Success Rate. and not only Score.

It's not perfect and obviously players will always get carry, it's normal in a coop game, but it has the merit of existing.

[element109]

It was ill conceived, poorly implemented and will likely cost more players than it will bring in the long run.

[Booyah]

Sorry for my skill I'm just european

[trick-master]

You could add the average points per map won stat (aka points/map won), so you can easily distinguish farmers.

Another way is to make harder challenge exponentially gain more points, which I think was the base goal to prevent farming? I guess it was underestimated, so maybe increase the point gap for challenge?

But as ax said, there are rewards, so it'll be farmed regardless, and that's not a bad thing for retention.

[SLH]

People abusing bots to carry them is the worst part. Yet some maps got reduced points because I'm able to solo them. Soloing maps on hard challenges takes a lot more effort, skill and retries than simply adding bots for a free win.

[Crimatore]

if you want to decentivize 150 retries then penalize losses

[Ax-now]

But maybe there would be a need for a cooldown to counter the big farmers and give the possibility to people who have less time to play to be able to compete.

[Candy Man]

İlk olarak Ax-now tarafından gönderildi:

But maybe there would be a need for a cooldown to counter the big farmers and give the possibility to people who have less time to play to be able to compete.

Arbitrarily restricting players will kill the game quickly unless you mean something else

[Ax-now]

İlk olarak Candy Man tarafından gönderildi:

Arbitrarily restricting players will kill the game quickly unless you mean something else

I'm talking about the possibility of limiting the gain of points per day or per week for people who have too much time to play, they will still be able to play but earn a lot less points.

it's just an idea like that, I don't even know if it's possible or if it will totally solve the "problem" (I don't think so).

[Booyah]

İlk olarak Ax-now tarafından gönderildi:

I don't even know if it's possible or if it will totally solve the "problem" (I don't think so).

It is possible but I don't think it's a good idea. This leaderboard was never about skill anyway. Even if you add all tweaks I've talked about, people with more time will still have advantage. It's just how it is. One idea to make it less "farmable" would be to add penalty in a form of losing points when you fail the mission. But since most good players play hard challenges and fails a lot, they would be quickly out of top 100, making the ranking look even weirder.

ASB2 had a better system. Players were getting very little points for completing missions but a lot for server achievements (playing specific marine on a specific mission, whole team alive etc). This way farmers had very little advantage because achievements were giving more points in a long run. This system would work even better with seasonal leaderboard since I doubt many would be able to complete all ASB2 achievements in 4 months. But this would also be harder to implement for multiple challenges.

In old ASBI, those achievements were separated for hard, insane and brutal. So if you wanted to get points, you needed to play on all difficulties (which is good). Now we also have dozens of challenges and separating achievements for all of them seem a bit of overkill.

[Anh]

To get into the Top20, there are plenty of good players already. Making a system, that punich grinders makes no sense.

There aren't many people who can solo asbi on all maps. And a person who can only solo asbi on 1 or 2 maps and does it again and again to gain points, is a grinder too in my eyes.

As for 150+ tries: just kick the not-so-good-player. But we try to be a nice community, so that wont happen. The only solution would be to lower the difficulty, so the bad player can be carried.

For me, a good player is someone who isn't just a solo-player but also a good teamplayer, someone who actually cares about his mates and not just some GL-Maniac killing teammates left and right.

I don't see this ranking system as a "who has the most skill"-List but rather a "who contributed the most to the community" like Helldivers. In Helldivers, every mission succes would increase the overall performance of the whole playerbase. In Alienswarm there is no such community goal tho.

People getting carried: Can't do nothing about this, there is always someone who might get carried, because he/she died early and still gains full points. But there are also situations, where 1 or 2 sacrifices helps the team winning the game, punishing them would be worse.

Professional competetiv players play 8+hours per day to improve and maintain their high skill in e-sports, why should such behavior be punished here? A-Casual-Friendly-Rewardsystem is the death of hardcore gamers. It makes no sense at all.
If we want to have and reward skilled players that is.

This is a coop game. You need 4 people for hard challenges like Asbi.

Bad part:
1. You can't get into the top20, if you don't have mates to play with.
2. If 4 good player would only play asbi and with noone else, the top4 would be secured.
3. Also the actual Ranking system makes playing normal or hard mode a waste of time. Forcing bad-players to play brutal or asbi (if they want to be top100).
4. A Ranking system that only rewards asbi players, would be useless.
5. Implementing a system, which rewards killed-aliens instead of succesful mission would decrease incentive for teamplayers playing medic.
6. Non-official Maps and Challenges shouldn't give rankpoints at all. It's not fair for newplayers. ASBI should be the highest challenge point rewardwise. RNG3 and other fun-challenges should be there for fun-only and not for farming rank-points. Right now it leads to abusive farming behavior.
7. If you want a "skill-based-ranked-system" There must be a "play-with-randoms"-ranked-mode like in league of legends. Else it will lead to people leaving ranked lobbies without penalties cause they don't want to play with "bad players".
8. Right now this ASRD has no ban-system for toxic behavior. Which is nessary for a fair-competetiv-ranksystem.

[Zoey♥]

İlk olarak Anh tarafından gönderildi:

To get into the Top20, there are plenty of good players already. Making a system, that punich grinders makes no sense.

There aren't many people who can solo asbi on all maps. And a person who can only solo asbi on 1 or 2 maps and does it again and again to gain points, is a grinder too in my eyes.

As for 150+ tries: just kick the not-so-good-player. But we try to be a nice community, so that wont happen. The only solution would be to lower the difficulty, so the bad player can be carried.

For me, a good player is someone who isn't just a solo-player but also a good teamplayer, someone who actually cares about his mates and not just some GL-Maniac killing teammates left and right.

I don't see this ranking system as a "who has the most skill"-List but rather a "who contributed the most to the community" like Helldivers. In Helldivers, every mission succes would increase the overall performance of the whole playerbase. In Alienswarm there is no such community goal tho.

People getting carried: Can't do nothing about this, there is always someone who might get carried, because he/she died early and still gains full points. But there are also situations, where 1 or 2 sacrifices helps the team winning the game, punishing them would be worse.

Professional competetiv players play 8+hours per day to improve and maintain their high skill in e-sports, why should such behavior be punished here? A-Casual-Friendly-Rewardsystem is the death of hardcore gamers. It makes no sense at all.
If we want to have and reward skilled players that is.

This is a coop game. You need 4 people for hard challenges like Asbi.

Bad part:
1. You can't get into the top20, if you don't have mates to play with.
2. If 4 good player would only play asbi and with noone else, the top4 would be secured.
3. Also the actual Ranking system makes playing normal or hard mode a waste of time. Forcing bad-players to play brutal or asbi (if they want to be top100).
4. A Ranking system that only rewards asbi players, would be useless.
5. Implementing a system, which rewards killed-aliens instead of succesful mission would decrease incentive for teamplayers playing medic.
6. Non-official Maps and Challenges shouldn't give rankpoints at all. It's not fair for newplayers. ASBI should be the highest challenge point rewardwise. RNG3 and other fun-challenges should be there for fun-only and not for farming rank-points. Right now it leads to abusive farming behavior.
7. If you want a "skill-based-ranked-system" There must be a "play-with-randoms"-ranked-mode like in league of legends. Else it will lead to people leaving ranked lobbies without penalties cause they don't want to play with "bad players".
8. Right now this ASRD has no ban-system for toxic behavior. Which is nessary for a fair-competetiv-ranksystem.

Then try listen to your OWN advices because it is not the case
for exemple when we loose again and again then we ask you to change marine because you can't handle it it's not being a good teammate it's just blind play until it works also suiciding as crash when vegas dies very good teammplay :O just fast restart and play

Also contributing to the game? just by playing? contributing to the game would be by doing updates giving it changes, fixing bugs, points out the problem
you dont really contribute to the game when you just play and dont say anything, thats not how that work

i quote "1. You can't get into the top20, if you don't have mates to play with" and the people who play solo just with bots lul? yes you can, this makes no sense

Of course there will be people that will be always carried but there is the people who try and the people who just dies at the begining and makes everything harder those people just learn more in vanilla first

Edit: esports players it's their job to play that much time in a game
You can't compare yourself to esports players that's embarrassing I doubt you get paid for this
Thank you

[Morton Salt]

Seems like some weird anomaly going on, might be some magic, i know its magician.

That thing of leaderboard is pointless, everyone have played before without number going up for some chicky breaky point wall and had fun, so why start now?

Well let them have 5 minutes of fame i guess :v

[Candy Man]

making the leaderboard reflect success rate would solve the problem. There is no point in punishing people with more time on their hands

[Booyah]

İlk olarak Candy Man tarafından gönderildi:

making the leaderboard reflect success rate would solve the problem. There is no point in punishing people with more time on their hands

this can be easily farmed as well