This artificial difficulty is pissing me off.

[Doctor Go-Go]

SO I'm playing the AI, 5 AI set to HARD. I manage to trade enough property away from the computer so none of the AI can have a complete set. I have about 20 properties. One complete set but not enough funds to safely build houses. One AI player manages to have all four railroads. At that point I can't manage to make any real money because I keep hitting the tax spaces so getting the go money is pointless. NOT only do I hit tax between board and park I also hit the one past GO! SEVERAL TIMES IN A ROW! THEN eventually one time I pass go and don't hit tax, but I land on the Railroad. losing that $200 yet again.

So ♥♥♥♥ this game and it's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ difficulty. It's not odds, it's just programmed to ♥♥♥♥ with the player. CLEARLY! That MANY times in a row with that much of the board in MY control? NO! The game is deliberately doing it, NO odds about it. AND it's not the first play through this happened.

[PNB]

Calm down, Doctor :)
Here's some help, but you can't unsee it once you look.

Offer the AI about $275 for a railroad. Soon you'll own them all :)

[Doctor Go-Go]

Originally posted by PNB:

Calm down, Doctor :)
Here's some help, but you can't unsee it once you look.

Offer the AI about $275 for a railroad. Soon you'll own them all :)

I already beat the 5 AI on hard, I took the entire board and built up every property, used all hotels and houses, had like 6,000 by the time I won,

Usually the AI will sell ANYTHING if offered an additional 20-25% of it's bank worth. BUT once the computer had all 4 railroads it kept countering with $500+ every time I offered to trade one.

[PNB]

Oh I see, you were pointing out that it's not random, and that it cheats. I thought you were new to this game and you were just frustrated. Yes, the AI plays like it's following a plan. Unless you cheat, it will keep doing the same thing to try to beat you. But really, that's what most games do.

[zeitbauer]

yes, you have to buy the railroads too. LOL. buy them from the players. but, they're selling them for about 30% over cost, and that's the counter-cheat we can use.

[Doctor Go-Go]

That's NOT cheating, explain to me how buying property for any inflated price is cheating? The A.I is too simple to understand if it sells it loses control of the board every time it sells something. THAT or it's designed so the player will figure out the strategy. IF the A.I wouldn't sell the game would drag on.

Cheating? How is clearly stating what you will trade then making the trade cheating? There's NO fraud, no deception, it's an honest agreement. Don't we learn by mistakes and misfortune? Including others, not just our own.

The game is designed for learning, just like most board games, it has a simple strategy. How often have you played Monopoly with real people? It's one of the simplest games around. BUT most players are newbies therefore selective of what they buy rather than buy everything they land on, if they can. With Veteran players the game winds up a stalemate or just drags on and on and on until someone is bankrupt or just gives up. It's futile to keep playing when the other players have no chance to compete. So either they surrender, struggle or someone sells them something to speed up the process by increasing their odds. So you may wind up losing because you gave them a chance to win.

[Kuehnau]

Played this at a friend's house, I very strongly believe that the game "cheats". At one point I had three complete sides of the board and only one AI left to defeat and until I lost the game, the AI missed every single one of my properties until taxes, chance cards and AI properties chipped away my empire until I lost.

If the developers are trying to say that this was completely random, I don't believe them.

[Doctor Go-Go]

Originally posted by Kuehnau:

Played this at a friend's house, I very strongly believe that the game "cheats". At one point I had three complete sides of the board and only one AI left to defeat and until I lost the game, the AI missed every single one of my properties until taxes, chance cards and AI properties chipped away my empire until I lost.

If the developers are trying to say that this was completely random, I don't believe them.

The difficulty level may introduce a little bit of cheating to make the game more difficult. Otherwise I think you're telling stories.

[PNB]

You don't think this game cheats? Try mortgaging your properties when you have almost no money, then watch how often the ai players land on them - just to rub it in your face. Or watch how many times you see the 'advance to go' card come up for the ai players, so that they can skip by your developed properties without paying you a cent. Or try being greedy and putting houses on quickly, then watch how often you get sent to jail or land on the tax properties. The game is, without any doubt at all, not random. It cheats.

[KaosReigns]

Originally posted by PNB:

You don't think this game cheats? Try mortgaging your properties when you have almost no money, then watch how often the ai players land on them - just to rub it in your face. Or watch how many times you see the 'advance to go' card come up for the ai players, so that they can skip by your developed properties without paying you a cent. Or try being greedy and putting houses on quickly, then watch how often you get sent to jail or land on the tax properties. The game is, without any doubt at all, not random. It cheats.

If it helps at all in any way, there is no such thing as "random" in any CPU game. There is something similar to random, but never truly random.

Anything that has random in place, is never, NEVER, governed by a system above it. This is the problem with CPU randomness. There is always a governing system above basically choosing your rolls, never once will it actually randomize.

This is an issue going as far back as programming exists, and it will forever be a problem until we create "true" AI. However, we open an entirely new can of worms when we talk about true AI and the sheer amount of movies that have shown this to be a horrible idea.

TL:DR - Computers can never truly have randomness.

[Doctor Go-Go]

Originally posted by PNB:

You don't think this game cheats? Try mortgaging your properties when you have almost no money, then watch how often the ai players land on them - just to rub it in your face. Or watch how many times you see the 'advance to go' card come up for the ai players, so that they can skip by your developed properties without paying you a cent. Or try being greedy and putting houses on quickly, then watch how often you get sent to jail or land on the tax properties. The game is, without any doubt at all, not random. It cheats.

LOL! Well yeah, the computer is trying to egg you on, encourage you to back into the game.

[Kuehnau]

Originally posted by KaosReigns:

Originally posted by PNB:

You don't think this game cheats? Try mortgaging your properties when you have almost no money, then watch how often the ai players land on them - just to rub it in your face. Or watch how many times you see the 'advance to go' card come up for the ai players, so that they can skip by your developed properties without paying you a cent. Or try being greedy and putting houses on quickly, then watch how often you get sent to jail or land on the tax properties. The game is, without any doubt at all, not random. It cheats.

If it helps at all in any way, there is no such thing as "random" in any CPU game. There is something similar to random, but never truly random.

Anything that has random in place, is never, NEVER, governed by a system above it. This is the problem with CPU randomness. There is always a governing system above basically choosing your rolls, never once will it actually randomize.

This is an issue going as far back as programming exists, and it will forever be a problem until we create "true" AI. However, we open an entirely new can of worms when we talk about true AI and the sheer amount of movies that have shown this to be a horrible idea.

TL:DR - Computers can never truly have randomness.

I and many people I know believe that computer rolled dice don't have the same random feeling as real dice do. I play Dungeons and Dragons as well as DM, I and four other people use D&D Beyond for most things, but do not use their dice rolling feature, we will roll physical dice.

To be fair, there's a lot of weird beliefs in D&D, I know people who have discarded dice simply because they have rolled poorly too many times. I personally feel like that unless there's some sort of procedure in place to directly effect the results of a dice roll, something like roll("2D6") is probably so close to random that it's insignificant. I personally just like physical dice more, but the fact I use a very expensive set of dice and a custom dice tower may be part of it.

Originally posted by Doctor Go-Go:

Originally posted by PNB:

You don't think this game cheats? Try mortgaging your properties when you have almost no money, then watch how often the ai players land on them - just to rub it in your face. Or watch how many times you see the 'advance to go' card come up for the ai players, so that they can skip by your developed properties without paying you a cent. Or try being greedy and putting houses on quickly, then watch how often you get sent to jail or land on the tax properties. The game is, without any doubt at all, not random. It cheats.

LOL! Well yeah, the computer is trying to egg you on, encourage you to back into the game.

"Egging on" is a really weird way to view cheating.

I have been playing Monopoly since I was old enough to learn, I love the board game. In the twenty eight years I've been playing Monopoly, I have literally *never* seen some of the ♥♥♥♥ this game pulls off on such a regular basis, I can only assume it's cheating.

I realize that when you are dealing with a game that relies on the luck of the dice, sometimes weird ♥♥♥♥ is going to happen. I was playing a game of Catan with friends and all three of us rolled '6' thirty times in a row. But that kind of ♥♥♥♥ is super uncommon, certainly not as regular as what happens with this game.

[Doctor Go-Go]

Originally posted by Kuehnau:

Originally posted by KaosReigns:

If it helps at all in any way, there is no such thing as "random" in any CPU game. There is something similar to random, but never truly random.

Anything that has random in place, is never, NEVER, governed by a system above it. This is the problem with CPU randomness. There is always a governing system above basically choosing your rolls, never once will it actually randomize.

This is an issue going as far back as programming exists, and it will forever be a problem until we create "true" AI. However, we open an entirely new can of worms when we talk about true AI and the sheer amount of movies that have shown this to be a horrible idea.

TL:DR - Computers can never truly have randomness.

I and many people I know believe that computer rolled dice don't have the same random feeling as real dice do. I play Dungeons and Dragons as well as DM, I and four other people use D&D Beyond for most things, but do not use their dice rolling feature, we will roll physical dice.

To be fair, there's a lot of weird beliefs in D&D, I know people who have discarded dice simply because they have rolled poorly too many times. I personally feel like that unless there's some sort of procedure in place to directly effect the results of a dice roll, something like roll("2D6") is probably so close to random that it's insignificant. I personally just like physical dice more, but the fact I use a very expensive set of dice and a custom dice tower may be part of it.

Originally posted by Doctor Go-Go:

LOL! Well yeah, the computer is trying to egg you on, encourage you to back into the game.

"Egging on" is a really weird way to view cheating.

I have been playing Monopoly since I was old enough to learn, I love the board game. In the twenty eight years I've been playing Monopoly, I have literally *never* seen some of the ♥♥♥♥ this game pulls off on such a regular basis, I can only assume it's cheating.

I realize that when you are dealing with a game that relies on the luck of the dice, sometimes weird ♥♥♥♥ is going to happen. I was playing a game of Catan with friends and all three of us rolled '6' thirty times in a row. But that kind of ♥♥♥♥ is super uncommon, certainly not as regular as what happens with this game.

Yeah, we know, it's ALL nonsense. XD

[Niet_Melvin]

I also just played a match against 5 hard ai, and the winner was basically already decided in round 1. 1 of the AI's managed to get a complete set and rushed to get a hotel only 4 turns after, and the next round every single player just happened to land on that hotel and all the other ai's just forfeited while they could have easily mortgaged their properties, giving the final ai with the entire board except for the red streets since I was lucky enough to get my hands on those. How exactly is this fun?

[ANDO]

Originally posted by Doctor Go-Go:

Originally posted by PNB:

Calm down, Doctor :)
Here's some help, but you can't unsee it once you look.

Offer the AI about $275 for a railroad. Soon you'll own them all :)

I already beat the 5 AI on hard, I took the entire board and built up every property, used all hotels and houses, had like 6,000 by the time I won,

Usually the AI will sell ANYTHING if offered an additional 20-25% of it's bank worth. BUT once the computer had all 4 railroads it kept countering with $500+ every time I offered to trade one.

Because at the point they have the monopoly the property is worth way more than face value, especially railroads, because it pays out much higher than the normal rent, matching the cost of the property. You need to pay the cost to be the railroad boss.

[Doctor Go-Go]

Originally posted by ANDO:

Originally posted by Doctor Go-Go:

I already beat the 5 AI on hard, I took the entire board and built up every property, used all hotels and houses, had like 6,000 by the time I won,

Usually the AI will sell ANYTHING if offered an additional 20-25% of it's bank worth. BUT once the computer had all 4 railroads it kept countering with $500+ every time I offered to trade one.

Because at the point they have the monopoly the property is worth way more than face value, especially railroads, because it pays out much higher than the normal rent, matching the cost of the property. You need to pay the cost to be the railroad boss.

Of course, that's implicit, it doesn't need to be explained. At that point it's about acquisition NOT expense. MY POINT was the computer didn't need to sell anything. an additional $500 is NOTHING compared to the prospect of relinquishing control of the board. NOTHING. The amount of income I had versus buying power meant I had the power to get more money and spend more money while the computer would continue to lose more of the board.

Selling the railroads to me would NOT benefit the computer in ANY WAY! The point was the computer doesn't think, it doesn't strategize, it just has pre-programmed routines it follows. AT that point it becomes futile because you know you're gonna win NO MATTER what. It's in the position to inflate the value or NEVER sell, yet it does for a minor inflation by comparison. NO STRATEGY!

It should have NEVER traded those railroads for a mere $500 to a $1,000 each when it was losing the board and had ALL FOUR railroads while I controlled most of the board and had chronic income compiling because I controlled most of the board.

Even then if it ONLY had the 4 railroads while I had most of the board what would it acquire, how would it take more of or gain more control of the board? It wouldn't therefore It becomes pointless, a losing battle.