Starting to regret turn-based...

[Jivebot]

I chose Turn-based because I always hated not being able to actually enjoy the attack and special fx animations in RTwP-style play. There's usually just too much happening all at once

But Spellslinging absolutely effing SUCKS in turn based mode.

You can pretty much forget AOE spells. Your enemies won't be there anymore by the time your spell actually goes off. And even single target spells, there's a chance your team will kill the target with melee before the damned effect goes off.

Am I doing something wrong or have I just made a critical error for which there is no cure?

[StickyFingaz]

Originally posted by Jivebot:

have I just made a critical error for which there is no cure?

pretty much it. PoE2 is the best implementation of RTwP on the market right now. I've started a turn-based playthrough back then and I had the very same frustration as you. Delayed casting is nonsense.

I started a second playthrough with RTwP and I had a MUCH better time.

[Dallas S]

You either have a bad dexterity or a big initative penalty (usually from heavy armor), or both. Casting is delayed based on those things , and exists because of the interrupt system (interrupt would be useless if you casted everything instantly).

[Beautiful Ham Sandwich]

Yeah, as someone that grew up on turn-based, I have to say I much prefer RTwP over turn-based for this game and Pathfinder: Kingmaker. Fortunately, there is a console command to change it which apparently doesn't mess with achievements, so you shouldn't be stuck with it.

Wish it was like Pathfinder: Kingmaker/WotR where it's just a quick button press to change between them, but hey, a console command is better than nothing.

[Fendelphi]

To me it is the opposite.

I find AoE spells pretty reliable in TB. You know your position in the queue and you can see when the spell is going off compared to when the enemy gets to act.

In RTwP, I have to constantly pause to realign my spellcasting or it might suddenly miss completely or hit my own people.

[Creep Gnome]

Originally posted by Beautiful Ham Sandwich:

Yeah, as someone that grew up on turn-based, I have to say I much prefer RTwP over turn-based for this game and Pathfinder: Kingmaker. Fortunately, there is a console command to change it which apparently doesn't mess with achievements, so you shouldn't be stuck with it.

Wish it was like Pathfinder: Kingmaker/WotR where it's just a quick button press to change between them, but hey, a console command is better than nothing.

The problem with the console command is that you can't toggle it during a combat. In Kingmaker you can start a battle in TB, see that it's just trash mobs, and flip to realtime to clean them up. PoE2 locks you in once the battle starts, so you need to know what mode to be in ahead of time (or do lots of tedious saving/loading).

As for casting in turn-based... I have to agree with Fendelphi. Realtime casting is so much worse than in TB

[valium]

Given how much easier it is to corral the enemy in turn-based, it becomes more predictable, thus making the aoe spells easier to use.

[Jivebot]

I saw some comments when I searched for the turnbase toggle command that seem to imply that your build can be badly screwed up by using that command here, but did not really explain why or how so I bit the bullet and started a new game.

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

To me it is the opposite.

I find AoE spells pretty reliable in TB. You know your position in the queue and you can see when the spell is going off compared to when the enemy gets to act.

In RTwP, I have to constantly pause to realign my spellcasting or it might suddenly miss completely or hit my own people.

The problem I run into with that approach....and maybe it's jsut me sucking at trying to anticipate where the enemy AI is gonna go...is that when i try to predict where i THINK the bulk of enemies will move, i'm wrong 50% of the time. lol

Also sometimes the spell is far enough down the queue that I cant seem to scroll down and see exactly when it will pop.

[ErikRedbeard]

I honestly find it really easy to hit aoe on turn based.
Most important thing. You gotta work with your frontline engagers and don't just attempt to figure out what they'll do next. Preferably one with good engagement amounts.

Remember on aoe (red part of circle does friendly fire, yellow part does not).

On top of that.
Dexterity and initiative are said to be pretty bad for turn based.
That certainly is the case except for this exact situation you're having.
Both dex and initiative reduction will help (so fe stick casters you want to be faster in lighter armor).
And also don't forget the faster casting passive you can get at some point which helps immensely to speed up the gap between starting and finishing a cast.

[Beautiful Ham Sandwich]

Originally posted by Creep Gnome:

Originally posted by Beautiful Ham Sandwich:

Yeah, as someone that grew up on turn-based, I have to say I much prefer RTwP over turn-based for this game and Pathfinder: Kingmaker. Fortunately, there is a console command to change it which apparently doesn't mess with achievements, so you shouldn't be stuck with it.

Wish it was like Pathfinder: Kingmaker/WotR where it's just a quick button press to change between them, but hey, a console command is better than nothing.

The problem with the console command is that you can't toggle it during a combat. In Kingmaker you can start a battle in TB, see that it's just trash mobs, and flip to realtime to clean them up. PoE2 locks you in once the battle starts, so you need to know what mode to be in ahead of time (or do lots of tedious saving/loading).

As for casting in turn-based... I have to agree with Fendelphi. Realtime casting is so much worse than in TB

Yeah I wasn't really meaning this as like an alternative to the switching, but more a permanent switch if OP really doesn't jive (heh) with TB.

As for AoE in TB vs RTwP, yeah TB is better for that, but I strongly disagree that it's THAT much better. The AoE sizes alongside with how slow enemies are and the yellow safe zone has made it really easy to hit with them, the only time I ever readjust is when I realize I want to move a character somewhere that'll get hit with the spell.

[Jivebot]

Maybe it's jsut me personally but thus far in my new playthrough I am finding it alot easier to land my AOEs.

Might be my preferred style of play that's coming into effect here. In POE1 I liked to stealth my spellcasters into range and immediately deploy my big longcasting AOEs in the opening salvo. Usually softens enemies up enough right at the outset to make mop up with the frontliners and a few more smaller, faster AOEs a breeze.

Once I got the spells I needed to try that here, is when TB really started to irk me. You try doing that in TB and the FIRST hit immediately starts combat, everybody moves, and by then the opening salvo is mostly wasted. Especially if you dont time multiple AOE castings right. If there's too big a gap the second AOE won't even go off anymore.

So now I can usually land my opening Salvos back-to-back without too much trouble and then I move my warriors into position and mop up the baddies.

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by Jivebot:

I saw some comments when I searched for the turnbase toggle command that seem to imply that your build can be badly screwed up by using that command here, but did not really explain why or how so I bit the bullet and started a new game.

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

To me it is the opposite.

I find AoE spells pretty reliable in TB. You know your position in the queue and you can see when the spell is going off compared to when the enemy gets to act.

In RTwP, I have to constantly pause to realign my spellcasting or it might suddenly miss completely or hit my own people.

The problem I run into with that approach....and maybe it's jsut me sucking at trying to anticipate where the enemy AI is gonna go...is that when i try to predict where i THINK the bulk of enemies will move, i'm wrong 50% of the time. lol

Also sometimes the spell is far enough down the queue that I cant seem to scroll down and see exactly when it will pop.

There are 2 things to consider here.
If you engage from stealth/sneaking(which happens 90% of the time), you get a massive initiative benefit on turn 1(your cast will often complete before the enemy takes a turn). So your turn 1 spell can easily be an AoE Debuff or Nuke against the enemies.
On following turns, your frontline should have been established, which usually locks enemies in place for a few turns.

In situations where there are no good targets(enemies move around too much, making it harder to predict where to aim), there are several spells to various classes that are single target, but with a bounce effect. These makes for great "AoE" damage spells on turns where enemy movement is unpredictable.
There is also the option of simply using such a turn for buffing your own party or a summon, or using a single target damage ability.


The other is using Initiative/the queue to your advantage. If you have below 10 Dex and medium/heavy armor, your spell casting will take a long time to complete. If you have neutral or positive Dex, and wear robes or certain light armors, you will get fairly fast cast times.
Then there are buffs that can give you Dex Inspiration and extra Action speed, and debuffs that applies Dex Affliction or slow down your enemies movement.

[The.Spaz.]

Wait... you can't switch between turnbased more and realtime on the fly in this game?? Sorry I just started up DeadFire for the very first time and am looking forward to trying out TB since I enjoyed it quite a bit in King maker and DOS 2.

[Jivebot]

You can only switch with Console commands, but the game changes the mechanics of how certain spells/abilities work depending on how whether you are TB or not and once that is determined at the outset it will not change, even with console commands.

So switching midgame can be detrimental to your build unless you don't care or dont mind using other console commands/mods to cheat

[spectre199]

for me I disagree turn based is really good in this game and in other games like kingmaker/wrath of the righteous.

[The.Spaz.]

Originally posted by spectre199:

for me I disagree turn based is really good in this game and in other games like kingmaker/wrath of the righteous.

I didn't enjoy Kingmaker but did like the Turnbased combat in it (city management got in the way) but I am having a hard time warming up the system in this game. Really don't like the fact your actions can be used up by simply swapping a weapon and have to unlock a perk to mitigate that (considering its way down the line). I don't know but on POTD melee characters have it rough, might be easier for casters and ranged characters since you can just keep running and maitaining the distance.