Summoning woes(Turn Based)

[Fendelphi]

So I am determined that my next playthrough is going to be with a Druid Summoner, probably using The Spine of Thicket Green for that +3 power levels to beast and plant spells.

The problem is that most summon spells take a long time to cast and have limited impact on the fight. They are not bad per se(extra bodies to block/attract the enemies) and over the course of a battle, they will eventually deal good damage, but when I compare that to the up-front damage of other spells, I cant help but feel that this is subpar(btw, I have tested this with companions in my current playthrough).

Another thing is, that the tier 8 and 9 summons are not that impressive, while the tier 7 summon is pretty strong(summons 3 oozes), which makes it more desirable to summon the tier 7 summon and use the higher level spells for direct damage.

This has lead me to the current conclusion:
- I can either go for a pure Druid(Fury) and focus on elemental spells, and then simply pick the level 7 summon when I get to it. This will probably use a different weapon than the Staff.
- I can go for multiclassing, ignoring the higher level spells and concentrate on using the 2 insect spells and Venombloom for raw damage, eventually getting the level 7 summon, and using the second class to further support the team/summons.
- Give up and simply use a Chanter for summons.

Any input is welcome.

[kaymarciy]

Chanter for summons is naturally the better deal, but it's not a Druid Summoner :) I'd go multiclass. Maybe even with Bellower Chanter just for the fun of having the increased Power Level for you summons. Or Cipher. You can't have too many ciphers on your team. But of course losing the Aenging Storm hurts no matter whether you summoner or not :( Or maybe with a ranged paladin for some free heal for summons?

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by kaymarciy:

Chanter for summons is naturally the better deal, but it's not a Druid Summoner :) I'd go multiclass. Maybe even with Bellower Chanter just for the fun of having the increased Power Level for you summons. Or Cipher. You can't have too many ciphers on your team. But of course losing the Aenging Storm hurts no matter whether you summoner or not :( Or maybe with a ranged paladin for some free heal for summons?

I am not too sad about missing out on Avenging Storm, simply because I didnt intend to be on the frontline with the character.
Yeah, I was considering Bellower as well, since it will beef up my allies(including summons) and myself, even if all I do is casting Druid spells. On-demand paralyze/summons etc. is not bad either.

The alternative is either Cipher or Ranger.
Cipher can potentially be powerful, but since I am mostly casting spells, I would have to go Psion subclass, and that is very slow in terms of getting more focus when multiclassing.
As a Ranger, I will get a pet(extra damage+"body" on the field) and a few "free to cast" abilities, allowing me more actions per turn. The Pet can even use the Bonds, making efficient use of my ressources. Not sure which pet I should pick though(since it is Turn based, anything but Lion seems ok).

I should probably mention that I expect to bring Pallegina as a Herald(Paladin+Chanter), so that is why Chanter as my own subclass is less desirable.

The party would be Maia(Geomancer), Pallegina(Herald), Edér(Swashbuckler) and either Aloth(Spellblade) or Xoti(Harvester of Gaun).

[Alan]

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

I should probably mention that I expect to bring Pallegina as a Herald(Paladin+Chanter), so that is why Chanter as my own subclass is less desirable.

Nothing wrong with more than one chanter. Chanters have really strong spells,summons, and buffs, never run out of resources, and passives are great to have in turn based.

My main tank is a custom herald (didn't like how Pallegina was built). She has summon ogres to help create a truly beefy front line, The Thunder Rolled, because having an AOE stun every other turn...awesome, Hel-Hyraf to help make fights against heavy armored enemies not take 2 hours to finish, Greater Lay on Hands, and Exalted Endurance aura. Everything else is tanking passives. She's fully and completely devoted to maintaining the front line.

My main is a ranged spiritualist devoted purely to ranged damage and mind control. She has summon drakes and every mind control and raw damage cipher skill.

You can very easily make two chanters while remaining unique characters.

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by Alan:

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

I should probably mention that I expect to bring Pallegina as a Herald(Paladin+Chanter), so that is why Chanter as my own subclass is less desirable.

Nothing wrong with more than one chanter. Chanters have really strong spells,summons, and buffs, never run out of resources, and passives are great to have in turn based.

My main tank is a custom herald (didn't like how Pallegina was built). She has summon ogres to help create a truly beefy front line, The Thunder Rolled, because having an AOE stun every other turn...awesome, Hel-Hyraf to help make fights against heavy armored enemies not take 2 hours to finish, Greater Lay on Hands, and Exalted Endurance aura. Everything else is tanking passives. She's fully and completely devoted to maintaining the front line.

My main is a ranged spiritualist devoted purely to ranged damage and mind control. She has summon drakes and every mind control and raw damage cipher skill.

You can very easily make two chanters while remaining unique characters.

Nothing wrong with it, but since buffs and debuffs wont stack, and I only require specific ones for this team setup, I dont really need a second Chanter. Other classes and abilities will give me additional options in fights. Also, about never running out of ressources, I dont think I have ever experienced that on a caster. Sure, Chanters allows you to(eventually) cast the same spell again and again, but there is usually some downtime between them(especially the more powerful abilities). It has it's pros and cons like any other caster.
If I were to go for Chanter multiclass, I would probably make a lightning based Druid to go with it. With Lord Darryn's Voulge and Deltor's Cage, you can get a lot of Electricity and Storm power levels. However, it wouldnt fit well with a minion setup, IMO, since you will be spending the first few turns setting up your storms, or using Thrice Was She Wronged on groups. By the time you get to casting summons, most enemies will be dead or dying and you might as well just frontload damage by then.

I dont mind Pallegina, because attribute min-maxing, for the most part, only has a minor effect. Also, being an Avian Godlike, she has resistance to Intelligence and Perception afflictions, which is quite nice.

Personally I prefer At the Sound of His Voice and it's upgrade over The Thunder Rolled. Bigger AoE, same cost. As a Druid, I will have several ways to Stun and many abilities that target Reflex. Not so many that Paralyze and targets Will. Also, the follow up affliction from the upgrade means that the enemy will be less efficient the turn after as well.

[Fendelphi]

I think I have decided on a Druid+Ranger multi-class, focusing on Beasts and Plants. This can give me a total of +5 power levels to beasts and plants at the start of every fight(+3 from staff, +1 from Ancient, +1 from Nature Godlike using Evasive Roll/Fire). This would more or less make it up for multi-classing and gives me some free actions to use while casting spells.

The rotation would probably be something like Plague of Insects(huge AoE) -> Summon -> Venombloom where the enemy has gathered up. I would then either heal(if needed), cast Infestation of Maggots(another huge AoE that deals raw damage) or use CC or single target damage(probably Returning Storm), depending on the situation.

Now the question is, what Spirit Shift should I use and which Animal Companion should I choose.
If I spirit shift Cat, I will get a better casting speed. If I go with Stag, I will have better defenses. If I go with Boar or Bear, I will be able to endure more.
For Animal Companion, I would probably go either Wolf, Deer or Antelope.

[Alan]

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

I dont mind Pallegina, because attribute min-maxing, for the most part, only has a minor effect. Also, being an Avian Godlike, she has resistance to Intelligence and Perception afflictions, which is quite nice.

Build aside, I probably would have kept her for story purposes and dialogue, except SPOILER she came right out and told me she would betray me to her corporate masters so fark her, I stole her armor, dropped her in the boat, and never looked back.