Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire

Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire

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ItsDanky! 18. Aug. 2023 um 6:46
2
1
i enjoyed PoE2 more than bg3
idk whats wrong about bg3 , chapter 3 is bugged af that im playing rn , but i did enjoy PoE2 waaaaay more ...
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Grishnerf:
for me its the same i dont know.
i just cant play the divinity original sin formula.
the open world aspects a nicer than pillars but the rest is meh, combat is tedious etc..
but everyone has their own taste, thats just it.
D:OS1 + 2 and baldursgate are great games, just not for me.
also i hate text driven games so i skip most of the story, but strangely in pillars
i found the lore somewhat interresting to
do even side quests and READING the fking dialogues :D
and pillars1>2
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Beiträge 1630 von 134
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dre G Writer:
aint gonna lie, playing baldurs gates 3 reeeeally made me crave pillars real time combat.

If balurs gates 3 has baldurs gate 1 and 2 real time combat, OMG.

still put in over 150 hours in baldurs gates 1st and 2nd act. the third act is where the performance really put me out of the game. the significantly dropped frames really killed my enjoyment big time.
yep i had the same problem in act 3 , the cutscenes are just laughable
I can only recommend people to read some of the reviews for BG3 over at gog. It's a good antidote to the relentless hype surrounding the game currently. Not all of them may be equally good, but it certainly makes it clear that some perspectives are simply not well represented by reviews.

The Eurogamer review is one of the few that actually has some genuine criticism to offer.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von SmellofNapalm:
I can only recommend people to read some of the reviews for BG3 over at gog. It's a good antidote to the relentless hype surrounding the game currently. Not all of them may be equally good, but it certainly makes it clear that some perspectives are simply not well represented by reviews.

The Eurogamer review is one of the few that actually has some genuine criticism to offer.

GOG Reviewer in Question:

They put pronouns and gay sex into Baldur's Gate.
Those absolute mother$#$%$%$. We will have our vengeance in this life or the next.

It's good that you want to be contrarian and find GOG is opinion affirming to you. I'm not judging.

Baldur's Gate 3 is near perfect, but it has performance problem.

There has been 0 cRPG in the last 20 years that has given you the widest possibility for role-playing, where dialogue react to who/what you are as it is in Baldur's Gate 3, I challenge -anybody- to mention a game within cRPG-sphere that has choices/game that react to your character as much as Baldur's Gate 3.

I think Pillars of Eternity 2 is a master piece, the best cRPG of the last decade, better than DOS2. But even PoE2 doesn't reach the level of the reactivity BG3 has to offer. If we're talking about writing, PoE2 still on the peak, it strikes balance for both cRPG fan and tourist who took break from playing TF2/warhammer/hoi/people who think the witcher 3 is cRPG, but good writing alone doesn't make a good RPG, PST has fantastic writing but horrible RPG because... you practically is not playing an RPG.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von RACHMANOVSKI; 3. Sep. 2023 um 23:32
Ursprünglich geschrieben von RACHMANOVSKI:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von SmellofNapalm:
I can only recommend people to read some of the reviews for BG3 over at gog. It's a good antidote to the relentless hype surrounding the game currently. Not all of them may be equally good, but it certainly makes it clear that some perspectives are simply not well represented by reviews.

The Eurogamer review is one of the few that actually has some genuine criticism to offer.

GOG Reviewer in Question:

They put pronouns and gay sex into Baldur's Gate.
Those absolute mother$#$%$%$. We will have our vengeance in this life or the next.

It's good that you want to be contrarian and find GOG is opinion affirming to you. I'm not judging.

Baldur's Gate 3 is near perfect, but it has performance problem.

There has been 0 cRPG in the last 20 years that has given you the widest possibility for role-playing, where dialogue react to who/what you are as it is in Baldur's Gate 3, I challenge -anybody- to mention a game within cRPG-sphere that has choices/game that react to your character as much as Baldur's Gate 3.

I think Pillars of Eternity 2 is a master piece, the best cRPG of the last decade, better than DOS2. But even PoE2 doesn't reach the level of the reactivity BG3 has to offer. If we're talking about writing, PoE2 still on the peak, it strikes balance for both cRPG fan and tourist who took break from playing TF2/warhammer/hoi/people who think the witcher 3 is cRPG, but good writing alone doesn't make a good RPG, PST has fantastic writing but horrible RPG because... you practically is not playing an RPG.
No, it's not near perfect. It's good but very flawed. A high amount of reactivity is not the sole factor as to whether a CRPG is near perfect. BG3's writing is not good, the combat is clunky and slow, the UI is an eyesore, the camera is annoying, its lacking basic QoL features like party formation, class progression is unclear, and the ending is extremely underwhelming. A difficulty mode above Tactician is also desperately needed.

Also, Act 1 reactivity is not the same as Act 3 reactivity. And while it's not race/class-based, Wrath of the Righteous has tons of branching content based on your Mythic Path.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von revan1229:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von RACHMANOVSKI:

GOG Reviewer in Question:



It's good that you want to be contrarian and find GOG is opinion affirming to you. I'm not judging.

Baldur's Gate 3 is near perfect, but it has performance problem.

There has been 0 cRPG in the last 20 years that has given you the widest possibility for role-playing, where dialogue react to who/what you are as it is in Baldur's Gate 3, I challenge -anybody- to mention a game within cRPG-sphere that has choices/game that react to your character as much as Baldur's Gate 3.

I think Pillars of Eternity 2 is a master piece, the best cRPG of the last decade, better than DOS2. But even PoE2 doesn't reach the level of the reactivity BG3 has to offer. If we're talking about writing, PoE2 still on the peak, it strikes balance for both cRPG fan and tourist who took break from playing TF2/warhammer/hoi/people who think the witcher 3 is cRPG, but good writing alone doesn't make a good RPG, PST has fantastic writing but horrible RPG because... you practically is not playing an RPG.
No, it's not near perfect. It's good but very flawed. A high amount of reactivity is not the sole factor as to whether a CRPG is near perfect. BG3's writing is not good, the combat is clunky and slow, the UI is an eyesore, the camera is annoying, its lacking basic QoL features like party formation, class progression is unclear, and the ending is extremely underwhelming. A difficulty mode above Tactician is also desperately needed.

Also, Act 1 reactivity is not the same as Act 3 reactivity. And while it's not race/class-based, Wrath of the Righteous has tons of branching content based on your Mythic Path.

Solasta, the first game made by indie devs that raised like 300k on Kickstarter based on 5e has a way better combat system than bg3 and more faithful adaptation of the tabletop rules. Also has built in campaign building tools to allow fans to create full on campaigns with quests and factions and whatnot with complex branching dialog.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von psychotron666:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von revan1229:
No, it's not near perfect. It's good but very flawed. A high amount of reactivity is not the sole factor as to whether a CRPG is near perfect. BG3's writing is not good, the combat is clunky and slow, the UI is an eyesore, the camera is annoying, its lacking basic QoL features like party formation, class progression is unclear, and the ending is extremely underwhelming. A difficulty mode above Tactician is also desperately needed.

Also, Act 1 reactivity is not the same as Act 3 reactivity. And while it's not race/class-based, Wrath of the Righteous has tons of branching content based on your Mythic Path.

Solasta, the first game made by indie devs that raised like 300k on Kickstarter based on 5e has a way better combat system than bg3 and more faithful adaptation of the tabletop rules. Also has built in campaign building tools to allow fans to create full on campaigns with quests and factions and whatnot with complex branching dialog.
Yes, I agree. Obviously not as good on the story/character side, but purely from a combat standpoint, it's better in pretty much every way.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von revan1229; 4. Sep. 2023 um 9:12
Ursprünglich geschrieben von revan1229:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von psychotron666:

Solasta, the first game made by indie devs that raised like 300k on Kickstarter based on 5e has a way better combat system than bg3 and more faithful adaptation of the tabletop rules. Also has built in campaign building tools to allow fans to create full on campaigns with quests and factions and whatnot with complex branching dialog.
Yes, I agree. Obviously not as good on the story/character side, but purely from a combat standpoint, it's better in pretty much every way.

Yeah agree. The story and writing/non combat stuff isnt very good in solasta, but the combat blows bg3 out of the water. And people with enough time and dedication can create some sweet campaigns.

It would be interesting to see what that dev could do with bg3 money and an actual full DND license.

Because it's crazy how such a small team could get combat so much better than larian who's big succesful games (original sin 1 and 2) are all about decent combat while the rest (dialogue, branching choices, believable world) is very sub par (I'm talking about original sin, bg3 they actually upped their game on these aspects a lot).
you guys are gona need to unpack how solastra combat is better then bg 3 combat
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Yoinkyz; 4. Sep. 2023 um 18:20
Ursprünglich geschrieben von revan1229:
No, it's not near perfect. It's good but very flawed. A high amount of reactivity is not the sole factor as to whether a CRPG is near perfect. BG3's writing is not good, the combat is clunky and slow, the UI is an eyesore, the camera is annoying, its lacking basic QoL features like party formation, class progression is unclear, and the ending is extremely underwhelming. A difficulty mode above Tactician is also desperately needed.

Also, Act 1 reactivity is not the same as Act 3 reactivity. And while it's not race/class-based, Wrath of the Righteous has tons of branching content based on your Mythic Path.

It would've been better if the thing you think are bad wasn't so subjective - quest, writing, combat... there is somebody out there who think Black Geyser: Courier of Darkness writing is better than BG3, or somebody out there think that it's bad, and when asked to offer what they think is better, turns out to be garbage level-5$ amazon e book written by nobody with fickle ego-level of writing.

I don't want to debate about Patchfinder: Wrath of Microsoft Excel writing, oh you forgot to dip your ass in this river during this quest when this sub-task happen and while conjuring flying balls? Too bad, no this particular ending for you. Also can't get enough of those "fantastically better enemies encounter and design" of 69 AC with 420 BAB.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von RACHMANOVSKI:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von revan1229:
No, it's not near perfect. It's good but very flawed. A high amount of reactivity is not the sole factor as to whether a CRPG is near perfect. BG3's writing is not good, the combat is clunky and slow, the UI is an eyesore, the camera is annoying, its lacking basic QoL features like party formation, class progression is unclear, and the ending is extremely underwhelming. A difficulty mode above Tactician is also desperately needed.

Also, Act 1 reactivity is not the same as Act 3 reactivity. And while it's not race/class-based, Wrath of the Righteous has tons of branching content based on your Mythic Path.

It would've been better if the thing you think are bad wasn't so subjective - quest, writing, combat... there is somebody out there who think Black Geyser: Courier of Darkness writing is better than BG3, or somebody out there think that it's bad, and when asked to offer what they think is better, turns out to be garbage level-5$ amazon e book written by nobody with fickle ego-level of writing.

I don't want to debate about Patchfinder: Wrath of Microsoft Excel writing, oh you forgot to dip your ass in this river during this quest when this sub-task happen and while conjuring flying balls? Too bad, no this particular ending for you. Also can't get enough of those "fantastically better enemies encounter and design" of 69 AC with 420 BAB.
By that logic, anything you say is equally subjective. So, moot point. You want better writing? Well, you can start with this game. WOTR has better writing, too. Older classics like DAO, PST, and BG2, as well. And you can read positive reviews of this game, that like yours, praise things like freedom, reactivity, and the meme content. I see relatively few reviews that say the combat is out of this world or the writing will become the industry standard.

If you're struggling with Pathfinder combat, I'm pretty sure that's a you issue - you clearly need to turn down the difficulty. The game provides tools that allow you to deal with those things you mentioned; if you don't understand them, lower the difficulty (no shame in this). It's more difficult than BG3 (which has little challenge above like level 4-5), but the difficulty settings are far more customizable than BG3. And WOTR may have a convoluted SECRET ending, but the regular endings are still beyond BG3's near ME3 level of meaningless.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von revan1229; 5. Sep. 2023 um 3:00
Ursprünglich geschrieben von revan1229:
]
By that logic, anything you say is equally subjective.
Exactly! Mine and yours are both Moot! :)

I realize that my post may seems to sound like an insult to you, but it's not. It's just in general and based on my observation.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von revan1229:
If you're struggling with Pathfinder combat, I'm pretty sure that's a you issue - you clearly need to turn down the difficulty. The game provides tools that allow you to deal with those things you mentioned; if you don't understand them, lower the difficulty (no shame in this). It's more difficult than BG3 (which has little challenge above like level 4-5), but the difficulty settings are far more customizable than BG3. And WOTR may have a convoluted SECRET ending, but the regular endings are still beyond BG3's near ME3 level of meaningless.
Absolutely, I turned down the difficulty, turn off the crusader stuff, but it's still obnoxious encounter design - it's not hard, it's obnoxious, which in turn make the game only be able to be enjoyed by niche audience!

I bet Through the Ashes DLC (which conformed to Owlcat philosophy of encounter and enemy design so much) is selling like cheap hot dog and the review is 100% approval from playerbase! .. oh wait.

Oh yes, every game has meaningless ending, by what standard? None! Arbitrary! because I feel like it is! :) Moot!

For me Pillars of Eternity 2 is a magnum opus, it's perfect, the only gripes I have is that npc only react to my deed but not to who/what they are. Because I love it, I ignored the fact that it has useless Ship2Ship combat mechanics, I ignored performance issue that still plague this game 5 years later and the fact that it doesn't have enough accessibility feature compared to say.. Baldur's Gate 3.

I mean I love this game so much, I think Kingmaker and WOTR combined are hot garbage, compared to Pillars of Eternity 2. This game, which doesn't even sell enough to warrant immediate sequel.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von RACHMANOVSKI; 5. Sep. 2023 um 4:19
Ursprünglich geschrieben von RACHMANOVSKI:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von revan1229:
]
By that logic, anything you say is equally subjective.
Exactly! Mine and yours are both Moot! :)

I realize that my post may seems to sound like an insult to you, but it's not. It's just in general and based on my observation.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von revan1229:
If you're struggling with Pathfinder combat, I'm pretty sure that's a you issue - you clearly need to turn down the difficulty. The game provides tools that allow you to deal with those things you mentioned; if you don't understand them, lower the difficulty (no shame in this). It's more difficult than BG3 (which has little challenge above like level 4-5), but the difficulty settings are far more customizable than BG3. And WOTR may have a convoluted SECRET ending, but the regular endings are still beyond BG3's near ME3 level of meaningless.
Absolutely, I turned down the difficulty, turn off the crusader stuff, but it's still obnoxious encounter design - it's not hard, it's obnoxious, which in turn make the game only be able to be enjoyed by niche audience!

I bet Through the Ashes DLC (which conformed to Owlcat philosophy of encounter and enemy design so much) is selling like cheap hot dog and the review is 100% approval from playerbase! .. oh wait.

Oh yes, every game has meaningless ending, by what standard? None! Arbitrary! because I feel like it is! :) Moot!

For me Pillars of Eternity 2 is a magnum opus, it's perfect, the only gripes I have is that npc only react to my deed but not to who/what they are. Because I love it, I ignored the fact that it has useless Ship2Ship combat mechanics, I ignored performance issue that still plague this game 5 years later and the fact that it doesn't have enough accessibility feature compared to say.. Baldur's Gate 3.

I mean I love this game so much, I think Kingmaker and WOTR combined are hot garbage, compared to Pillars of Eternity 2. This game, which doesn't even sell enough to warrant immediate sequel.
Obnoxious, to you. Not to me and many others. Another moot point! And there is nothing wrong with a niche audience. Despite BG3's (which to me, feels hollow mechanically in comparison to PF and this game - not entirely Larian's fault) success, CRPG is still a niche genre, and I expect that to continue. So, what's your point?

And tell me you didn't play TTA without telling me you didn't play TTA. TTA is pretty much the opposite of Owlcat's philosophy. You are extremely limited in what's available, and you are encouraged to avoid combat where possible.

Not meaningless in terms of the ending itself. Meaningless in terms of choose A or B, and what you did up to that point makes little difference. You defending this is hilarious when the devs have acknowledged this and are working on an update.

I think Deadfire is fantastic, as are KM and WOTR. I think BG3 is just solid - 7/10 at present, maybe higher once the patches really start rolling in. We seem to agree that Deadfire should have sold more because of its quality, therefore quality does not equal high sales. So, why call OP a contrarian?
Zuletzt bearbeitet von revan1229; 5. Sep. 2023 um 5:30
Ursprünglich geschrieben von revan1229:
I think Deadfire is fantastic, as are KM and WOTR. I think BG3 is just solid - 7/10 at present, maybe higher once the patches really start rolling in. We seem to agree that Deadfire should have sold more because of its quality, therefore quality does not equal high sales. So, why call OP a contrarian?

I'm not saying OP contrarian, I'm saying the other guy who refer to GOG reviews to be more objective than others as contrarian. They seek confirmation to what they personally belief.

They are against popular opinion. - and that's not a problem, I just think they should be aware that all reviews are subjective, what's objective is that the popular/general consensus think the game (BG3) is pretty much GOTY.

I think you too are contrarian, and yes, it's no problem that you think it's 7, it's your game, you've paid for it. However, the popular/general consensus it that the game is at the very least an 8.

I'm not saying WOTR is niche as in niche sales, it's niche as in only some truly enjoy the combat, if they were many who enjoys the combat presented in WOTR, TTA wouldn't get a mixed review.

If you read my intention there, I'm not defending Larian ending at all, in fact my argument was that all ending is meaningless until it does - like it is Dragon Age games, for example. I personally think that, until you get something out of the ending, whatever the ends told you is just closure. I personally think there is no difference between WOTR and BG3 ending apart from presentation, both solved the problem and characters moved on with their lives. --- but let's get one thing clear, I think WOTR has better ending presentation compared to Larian's BG3, but the ending itself, essentially meaningless apart from giving you pat in the back.... hopefully we get WOTR2 or something, would be nice if the ending I get, after hours in Crusader Mode, would resulted in something.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von RACHMANOVSKI; 5. Sep. 2023 um 6:59
Ursprünglich geschrieben von RACHMANOVSKI:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von revan1229:
I think Deadfire is fantastic, as are KM and WOTR. I think BG3 is just solid - 7/10 at present, maybe higher once the patches really start rolling in. We seem to agree that Deadfire should have sold more because of its quality, therefore quality does not equal high sales. So, why call OP a contrarian?

I'm not saying OP contrarian, I'm saying the other guy who refer to GOG reviews to be more objective than others as contrarian. They seek confirmation to what they personally belief.

They are against popular opinion. - and that's not a problem, I just think they should be aware that all reviews are subjective, what's objective is that the popular/general consensus think the game (BG3) is pretty much GOTY.

I think you too are contrarian, and yes, it's no problem that you think it's 7, it's your game, you've paid for it. However, the popular/general consensus it that the game is at the very least an 8.

I'm not saying WOTR is niche as in niche sales, it's niche as in only some truly enjoy the combat, if they were many who enjoys the combat presented in WOTR, TTA wouldn't get a mixed review.

If you read my intention there, I'm not defending Larian ending at all, in fact my argument was that all ending is meaningless until it does - like it is Dragon Age games, for example. I personally think that, until you get something out of the ending, whatever the ends told you is just closure. I personally think there is no difference between WOTR and BG3 ending apart from presentation, both solved the problem and characters moved on with their lives.
So, Deadfire is 88 on Metacritic, with an average user review score of 7.8. Popular/general consensus is kind of...not all that meaningful, imo, especially when a majority of BG3 players have not even finished the game.

Did you not read what I said about TTA? It is NOT combat heavy; it encourages you to AVOID combat where possible and severely limits the combat resources available to you.

And you were the one saying how important reactivity is, but not for the ending? In WOTR, your choices up to that point can lead to dramatically different endings. BG3 just kind of ends in one of 2 ways. These are not the same, and the developers have acknowledged this.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von revan1229:
And you were the one saying how important reactivity is, but not for the ending? In WOTR, your choices up to that point can lead to dramatically different endings. BG3 just kind of ends in one of 2 ways. These are not the same, and the developers have acknowledged this.

React as in in dialogue and ways to resolve quest. WOTR has better alignment reactivity, but not much else, well, as far as I remember.

In case you think I think WOTR bad for that, I am not, they're different. It's more comparable to Deadfire in that regard.

I can argue that the "dramatically" varies ending ensures WOTR will never get a direct sequel, not that it matter for most perhaps. --- compared to Deadfire, or BG for example, even if it's not too dramatic, and basically it's just 1 or 2 choices that actually matters, the narrative can be much easier to be followed up compared to WOTR.

BG3 can have a direct sequel. Deadfire can have a direct sequel. WOTR may not.

Understanding that the narrative and variations needs to be tighten to ensure a follow up is possible is to understand why BG3 and Deadfire has more limited ending variations than WOTR.

You may disagree, and that is okay.

Back to reactivity (in dialogue), in my experience of course, BG3 offers more ways to resolve quest than I did in WOTR. in WOTR, It doesn't matter if I play a Rogue or Cleric, what matters is whether I have high perception or not to notice that I didn't need go through a hallway full of Balor to get a mcguffin quest solution hiding behind the wall.

In comparison, in BG3 in order say, jump over an obstacle I can sneak my way in as a Rogue, fight the undead in front of it as a Cleric, literally jump my way through the obstacle if I'm Fighter/Barbarian, and often times, talk my way out of it if I have enough Charisma, 3 types of Speech checks to slid my way through. In my experience, this kind of solutions are scarce in WOTR, you either -avoid- it, like you said in TTA, or fight through it, most of the time.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von RACHMANOVSKI; 5. Sep. 2023 um 7:35
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