is rymrgand the most intimidating/powerful god?

[snuggleform]

From a philosophical standpoint I find myself at a loss to fight his logic - that everything ends in entropy. So to me, the thing he represents does seem inevitable.

That being said, like the other gods he is "just" an ascended kith, so he has personality quirks (such as being a jerk, which he asserts is in his nature), and is unable to change his viewpoints, and he was fooled by eothas and was scared enough of woedica to fight against her.

What do you think are rymrgrands weaknesses both philosophically and otherwise?

[Du-Vu]

Rymrgand in the first game isn't so keen on rushing the process -- entropy will happen, but that doesn't mean it needs to be sped up. And just because it's inevitable doesn't mean that it is desirable. The fact that all things are finite doesn't mean they have no value. Just the opposite, really. Supply and demand, right? Existence is a limited commodity, and therefore precious. Get yours today, while supplies last. And so on.

If Rymrgand is like other gods, he can't actually be any more powerful than the rest. He champions entropy, he uses his powers to further entropy, but he doesn't necessarily embody the force of entropy itself, despite his claims. His power is limited to the number of souls at his command, those believers who he grinds back into soul energy and (presumably) uses for himself.

On the other hand, there are a few faint hints in II that maybe Rymrgand is different from the other gods, that he might predate the Great Wheel in some way even if he was still empowered by the Engwithans at the same time. It's odd for them to be afraid of him the way they are if he doesn't hold any power that they don't have. But that might just be more self-mythologizing on Rymr's part, him talking himself up. It's hard to say, and something they could still change down the line.

[snuggleform]

Right, I agree that he can't really be more powerful than the other gods since he was empowered by the same process. I do understand and I recall when he says he does not speed up or slow down entropy, he goes at his own pace. I never said it was desirable, or that existence has no value.

I was just saying that he wins in the end, as the limit goes to infinity.

Whoah, where are these faint hints that Rymrgand is different than the other gods? I missed it somewhere.

I did catch that there are other civilizations that predated or coincided with the engwithans, who also had some mastery over the soul.

Also I may have misinterpreted, but in POE1 he was against woedica because she would bring everything to complete order, but in POE2 he's ok with eothas freeing everyone from the wheel. I never really understood his motivations because doesn't he just win anyways in the end regardless of whether woedica or eothas or anyone does anything?

[Steffan]

Originally posted by snuggleform:

From a philosophical standpoint I find myself at a loss to fight his logic - that everything ends in entropy. So to me, the thing he represents does seem inevitable.

That being said, like the other gods he is "just" an ascended kith, so he has personality quirks (such as being a jerk, which he asserts is in his nature), and is unable to change his viewpoints, and he was fooled by eothas and was scared enough of woedica to fight against her.

What do you think are rymrgrands weaknesses both philosophically and otherwise?

Well, from a lore perspective "ascended kith" is an oversimplification. in PoE it is established that gods were made from the sacrifice of multitude of souls. Gods are a kind of constructs and represent an idea.

Rymrgand actually supports Eothas in his quest (from a moral standpoint at least) as well, what Eothas intends may mean the end of both kith and gods. Rymrgand does not care about its own destruction as it is the idea it represents.

My general observations end here. The rest you can skip as it concerns the campaign

It is also the god my character (in my current, unfinished and first campaign) feels most antagonized in PoE2: it is oblivion and destruction my PC fights against. He is leaning towards Berath and very confused about Eothas. He even had a decent relationship with Galawain (up to a point)... Mind you, Rymrgand is well written IMHO. But it is the end we all deeply fear. That's his idea.

Originally posted by snuggleform:

On the other hand, there are a few faint hints in II that maybe Rymrgand is different from the other gods, that he might predate the Great Wheel in some way even if he was still empowered by the Engwithans at the same time. It's odd for them to be afraid of him the way they are if he doesn't hold any power that they don't have. But that might just be more self-mythologizing on Rymr's part, him talking himself up. It's hard to say, and something they could still change down the line.

Actually Rymr confirms that the Void predates him. And yes, only Eothas seems to outpower the other gods as he managed to claim a body. But this is purely circumstantial. In general the gods stand on the same ground. However some such as Woedica (with Thaos), Berath, Eothas and perhaps Wael (judging from the trailer for the Forgotten Sanctum; I have not gotten that far) are good in playing the long game and that gives them a tactical edge.

[Steffan]

Originally posted by snuggleform:

Also I may have misinterpreted, but in POE1 he was against woedica because she would bring everything to complete order, but in POE2 he's ok with eothas freeing everyone from the wheel. I never really understood his motivations because doesn't he just win anyways in the end regardless of whether woedica or eothas or anyone does anything?

I never completed his quest in PoE but in PoE 2 his motivations are clear: he hopes that destroying the Wheel will be the End. Something that will fulfil his mission.

Woedica will never destroy the gods, herself and the kith. She can be ruthless and destroy millions of souls but she will not bring about the end of all existence. (am I defending Woedica, omg)

[snuggleform]

Right maybe ascended kith was an oversimplification, but I guess my point there was that they are constrained in some sense; I remember a conversation where you can ask them why do you argue so much and berath says something like it's in our nature, we cannot do otherwise. I definitely wonder how much Avowed will go into the nature of the "true" gods, and how many new ancient civilizations we'll run into that they have hinted at (like rekke's, and some other things hinted I think in FS when they mentioned that engwithans weren't the only ones who had mastery over the soul, they were just the biggest recognizable name that globalized the adra trade).

[Stefan]

Originally posted by steffan8:

(am I defending Woedica, omg)

It's cool. She's a bit more relatable in Deadfire. I'm all on board with her regarding Eothas, frankly. Potentially destroying the world because you hope it sort of works out ok is NOT cool.

[snuggleform]

Did anyone else find berath....alluring? Yeah I know half of her is a geriatric dwarf, and she comes off as stern, but there's just some kind of gothic appeal to her XD

[Steffan]

Originally posted by snuggleform:

Did anyone else find berath....alluring? Yeah I know half of her is a geriatric dwarf, and she comes off as stern, but there's just some kind of gothic appeal to her XD

Oh, yes. Their female portrait is ghostly attractive. I was really happy to find out they had a big role in the second game.

They are also the god who my PC followed the first game. Not from a religious feeling but partially from gratitude as the Cult of Berath supports the death godlikes. And of course, because of the idea that souls should pass the Wheel so this is less traumatic for them. Btw, was it not a manipulation from Berath's side to claim such a thing? The ending slides for Hylea said nothing about fractured or traumatised souls... Regardless, the treatment of Hylea to Pallegina and the Sky Dragon was appalling. Hylea is kind of a hypocrite (at least that was the impression).

[snuggleform]

To me Hylea just sort of phoned things in. I enjoyed the part in POE1 where Pallegina cried out at the injustice of her kind's existence, but I diskliked Hylea's response: she just gave a generic "oh I like your fierceness", skirting the question. I can't decide whether it was writer's laziness/incompetence that they couldn't come up with a reasonable answer from a god, or whether hylea is just deliberately like that.

Berath's portrait is ok, but what really got my wheels turning is that artwork where you talk to the gods on your ship and she's looking down on you with the double gripped sword. Yeah she's stern but I just feel like she'd be rather warm and inviting if she didn't have to deal with all that responsibility.

[Du-Vu]

None of the ending slides other than Hylea's really say anything about what happens to the Hollowborn. And hers doesn't mention what happens to, say, wichts. Are they just the human and animal soul in the same body, or what? And how did all the people who killed their Hollowborn children take it.

Hylea is a total hypocrite, but in an understandable way you sometimes run into in real life. Her desire to be nice and happy all the time means she tends to look away from people in actual pain or danger. Relatable on some level, not so great under these circumstances. She protects her own without really looking at the larger picture. Thinks of herself as generous but it's in a self-promoting sort of way.

The Pallid Knight is pretty hot, and cold and goth-like, but I think you do have to bear in mind that even that is kind of a manipulation. She seems serious and rational, but her other aspect is not only a dwarf but a trickster. So yeah, I don't think she'd be above lying to get her way

[psychotron666]

He isn't just an ascended kith, he's thousands if not millions of ascended kith. Each of the gods are made up by many mortal souls in their creation. Woedica goes into detail and uses skaen as an example, skaen was made up of all the murderers,back stabbers and dredges of society, against their will (most of the people who became the gods were ascended against their will)

[snuggleform]

If they had a god system in avowed where you could choose to serve one, would there be any significant player base that goes for magran, hylea, ondra, or galawain? The interesting/powerful ones seem to be rymrgand, berath, wael, eothas.

and btw glad to hear i'm not the only one who thinks berath is a hottie ^^

[Jaahljuu]

Rymrgand and Wael are definitely the coolest gods. Really hope developers consider classes, characters, or extensions specifically so we can play cultist plot lines. Would love to experience the game as an agent of the Forgotten Sanctum, sent out into Deadfire on mysterious missions to spread confusion and chaos for Wael's mirth.

[snuggleform]

I hope there's a really really deep and cool worshipping god system where you're forced to commit (Avowed after all) to a god.

[snuggleform]

Originally posted by steffan8:

Originally posted by snuggleform:

Also I may have misinterpreted, but in POE1 he was against woedica because she would bring everything to complete order, but in POE2 he's ok with eothas freeing everyone from the wheel. I never really understood his motivations because doesn't he just win anyways in the end regardless of whether woedica or eothas or anyone does anything?

I never completed his quest in PoE but in PoE 2 his motivations are clear: he hopes that destroying the Wheel will be the End. Something that will fulfil his mission.

Woedica will never destroy the gods, herself and the kith. She can be ruthless and destroy millions of souls but she will not bring about the end of all existence. (am I defending Woedica, omg)

Speaking of woedica, I couldn't find rule 34 of her. Why is that the case?