Turn based and quick weapons.

[Czernobog wants to Rage]

Does turn based skew the weapon balance towards two handers and punish dual wielding, say, daggers or stellitos? What's the payoff? Is it worth that?

[lobstermadness]

since everyone only gets one and only one turn in a round, for melee you just pick the best weapon damage output for that melee-type character. That often means not daggers unless they are special damage daggers.

FWIW, I dumped my rogue in this play-through with turn-based. Unless you put him in stealth over and over again, he is useless for damage output versus a fighter with a two hander who gets to swing that thing every round.

[dulany67]

But the rogue does have talents that allow it to move around the battlefield and interrupt casting which can be handy. But I would multi.

[psychotron666]

Originally posted by lobstermadness:

since everyone only gets one and only one turn in a round, for melee you just pick the best weapon damage output for that melee-type character. That often means not daggers unless they are special damage daggers.

FWIW, I dumped my rogue in this play-through with turn-based. Unless you put him in stealth over and over again, he is useless for damage output versus a fighter with a two hander who gets to swing that thing every round.

Weird, my two rogues out damage everyone else except my wizard.

You do realize they get sneak attack bonus if the enemy is flanked, or under basically any status effect right?

I half aloth right now as rogue wizard, using an animancer sword and a dagger dual wield, and because he can cause 2 sneak attack eligible status effects in one round (just standing next to an enemy makes them flanked and distracted, and then can dual hit with blinding strike) , he basically hits twice for around 50 damage each on a regular attack. Pulling around a hundred damage on a regular enemy in a turn with a regular attack.

Not to mention all of rogues abilities are interrupts, so he's also my mage slayer who stops enemies from pulling off spells

[psychotron666]

If anything turn based is more skewed to dual wield than it is to use a two handed weapon

[MrJane]

Yeah, flanking is SO much better now in turn based, giving rogues a big leg up. And rogues have tons of mobility and utility skills as well. They're doing just fine in TB!

[lobstermadness]

agree if you use the sneaking skills in combat but tbh I found that tedious to arrange every turn versus the fighter with 2 handed who can just stand there and swing.

[psychotron666]

Originally posted by lobstermadness:

agree if you use the sneaking skills in combat but tbh I found that tedious to arrange every turn versus the fighter with 2 handed who can just stand there and swing.

No, that's what I'm saying is you don't need to use sneak in combat. My rogues are putting out insane damage output, controlling the battlefield with interrupts, and not once have I sneaked or gone invisible etc to do it. Rogues have tons of abilities that gives sneak attacks, without needing to sneak at all

[lobstermadness]

oh OK, my rogue couldnt do much of anything good at level 7 and that's when I dropped him from the party. I am sure there are good skills and perks for the rogue later on!

[MrJane]

If you find it tedious, you might be playing the wrong game. :-S This game is all about micro-management.

[lobstermadness]

oh i dont mind lining up spells and chants and positioning the party -- the AoE stuff is fun to arrange. My sole comment about the rogue is that he doesnt have much to do at lower levels. And the paltry daggers for the first 15 hours of the game are crud.

[Cheb]

In turn based mode, they recently buffed lighter weapons. Stilettos suddenly became more appealing.

[billy]

I haven't noticed rogues damage being significantly worse , it's still great . I played a trickster in the old system and playing trickster again now in TB and the damage still seems much the same

I think its stronger overall because positioning is so much easier . And i think they buffed daggers (?) , i swear they do more damage now.

i never use stealth . There's no need to use stealth if you don't want to , rogue is great with or without using it. Stealth is merely an option i personally find boring so don't use it. Zipping round the battle field is so good in TB.

[Flashman]

The rogue damage output relies on the Flanked (Blinded, Hobbled, any other status almost except for only Prone also triggers Sneak attacks) status, which gives the Sneak attack +30% damage bonus from the early ability. Whats more, it also relies on Abilities of Full Attack type with +25% damage bonus, such as Crippling Strike. To top it off, yes, ditch the daggers, but equip Sabres, Sabres have inherently 10% bonus damage, and you can train for their modal, +2 penetration, which will keep you more often hitting at 100% and ocassionally at 130% damage. The Sabre has also higher damage range IIRC than a dagger, which, like you suspected, is not as strong Damage per turn as those "slower hitting" weapons.

Turn based round enables to hit once with a one hander (with or without shield), once with a two hander or once with two one handers, and here are the rough differences between these scenarios:

1x One Hander (and no shield!)
-------------------------------------------
Bonus +12 Accuracy, good if you are Grazing or Missing often, 100% damage, can boost to convert some % of hits to crits with One Handed passive ability

1x One Hander (and shield)
-------------------------------------
100% damage, and receive defensive bonus Deflection + bonus Engagement from Shield, can boost Deflection bonus higher with Weapon and Shield passive ability

1x Two Hander
---------------------
100% damage, usually more damage per turn than 1x One Hander, because Two Handers have higher base damage. Can be boosted to 115% with Two Hander passive ability

2x One Hander (Dual-wield)
-------------------------------------
65% damage (-35% Dual Wielding penalty), adds up to 130% damage from two different One Handers, which is still 30% more than just hitting once with one hander. This is usually on par with 1x Two Hander at 100% hit, but perhaps not as high damage as the ability boosted 115% with Two Hander passive boosted. This mode can be boosted to have lower initiative with the passive Dual Wield ability, which is pretty much worthless in turn based mode.


The turn based mode is still in beta and I hope there will be further tuning and balance addressing to make all builds a little more balanced....

[Flashman]

Also, consider that Rogues can wield Two Handers in this game, even if that is unthematic and boring

[lobstermadness]

dual sabers makes a lot of sense -- thanks Flashman