Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire

Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire

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Ancalagon 2019 年 2 月 20 日 下午 1:20
the WIZARD/MAGE class is brutally weakened
in pillar of eternity you could copy all the spells in your library, in this version the magician is a surrogate of half of the skills he had available in the previous version .....

to have some "unique" spells he is obliged to equip grimoires specific or not able to launch them, or even to know them in the acquisition phase at a higher level
引用自 lbhgaming:
引用自 Ancalagon
引用自 .//slayer
That sounds like something you pulled from D&D. All of that is, honestly, pretty much arbitrary, and the authors of PoE's universe can decide whatever the hell they want to do with their own "magicians, sorcerers and wizards". Game mechanics don't really rely on naming.

you can not say that this game is the sequel to another if you radically change the mechanics and functions of the game .... I repeat that in pillar of eternity 1 was as I wrote, stop throwing arguments that do not center (D&D, harry potter, or any other argument) ....

as regards decisions or anything else on how it should be a game I did not say that the authors could not make changes, the game is theirs, I'm just writing that between version 1 and version 2 has challenged two totally different ways of playing the game as originally proposed going to contrast arguments of missions present in the second version, both in terms of meaning and use of the class that they call magician but that is not a magician .....

is another, a mixture of various classes less powerful than a magician

Agreeing with Ancalagon here . The timeframe between the first and the second PoE , is only a few years .
The new gameplay in PoE2 has actually made all npc`s and the pc more stupid and less knowing , because they can do less .
Now , if we talked centuries , we could talk about decline over generations , but in only a few years ?
That´s not a sequel . That´s an entire different gameworld , containing characters and lore from the first PoE .
Also , the wizard has been made more dumb and unintelligent over the years . I remember 20 years , just how they had several dumptrucks full of spells . He was weak as hell in combat , could hardly take a hit without dying , but his spells ....... There were hundreds of different spells . Including summing animals and elementals and undead .
Wizards today can rarely summon . And look at the number of spells the wizard has today .
Today , the wizard can actually take a small beating , but his spellbook has declined like nothing has ever done before in history .

Those of you who sit there today and defend the power of the wizard today , you don´t know the power the wizard once had . You have never felt it , you have never tasted it , you have never had it .
Those of us who do know , we are buried beneath the floorboards alive on forums , because we give our opinions on what the developers have done to a wizard , today .

The wizard is close to be an object of a museum . There is not many left , that knows of the true power the wizard once had . And we will not be getting that power back . The industry is against it . Us old school wizards , we are being flushed out , to put it simply .

The young ones today think they are powerful because they have one or two or three spells that can take whole groups again and again and again .
Again , I say to you , you have no idea what a wizards power is .

The industry does not want to have the wizard anymore , so it is being flushed out . Just like everything else that does not belong in the modern world today . People today , does not care for their own families anymore , they certainly don´t care for the sick anymore , or the elders . The sick and the elders are simply put , being pushed aside (flushed out) .
And when the world is being confronted by that , nothing happens , except for the fact that it gets worse . There is no room for sick or elder people today .
It is exactly the same with the wizard . The powerful wizard that was , has been flushed out . Whatever there is left now , is the last . When the last few spells are gone , the wizard will be history .

That is the road that the industry has . That is the road that people have .
The old necromancer is already history , the old enchanter is already history , and several of the other old casters as well .
Spells are being removed , so the real world can enter the gameworlds .
People want realistic . They want realistic gameplay , they want realistic graphics , they want realistic sounds ..... and so forth . People are not into games anymore . And games today have become TOO realistic .

Nahhhh , you young ones out there , you don´t know the power the wizard once had . You never tasted it , you never felt it , you never had it . You , are not old enough .
Have a good day all .
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正在显示第 46 - 60 条,共 80 条留言
Nox Eterna 2019 年 2 月 22 日 上午 4:45 
No accounting for taste, I guess
Autocthon 2019 年 2 月 22 日 上午 4:50 
If your squishy wizard isn't the kind of wizard that makes sure to suffuse themselves with magical power to beat down lesser mortals you don't have to ever use might to resolve a situation.
最后由 Autocthon 编辑于; 2019 年 2 月 22 日 上午 4:50
.//slayer 2019 年 2 月 22 日 上午 5:39 
引用自 Nox Eterna
引用自 Autocthon
"Might represents a character's physical and spiritual strength, brute force as well as their ability to channel powerful magic."

In this universe to be able to channel more magic you need physical strength too. It's not DnD or Tolkien style magic. It's more like Eragon or other universes where magic is tied to physical well-being.

I don't like that. I am playing a fragile elf wizard with 5 constitution and 15 might and somehow I get to lift people twice my size by the neck with one hand in conversation. Powerful spellcaster = bodybuilder is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Quote the opposite for me - I never liked the idea that you have to forego physical exercise in order to improve mentally. It's the opposite in real life, too - being healthy and strong helps you concentrate and pay attention to taxing mental tasks.

There's a cool piece of literature by a popular Ukrainian fantasy author who goes by the alias Henri Lion Oldi. He wrote a series of books called "ShMagic", where one of the ways to store mana for mages was to accumulate it in the muscles of their body - to be expended later. Masters of magic who chose this way of learning ended up being bulky body-builders. Now that's something I can behind.
最后由 .//slayer 编辑于; 2019 年 2 月 22 日 上午 5:40
psychotron666 2019 年 2 月 22 日 上午 8:46 
I'm right now playing a high might high intelligence diplomatic clever wizard. Level 20, never once had to use might or physical strength to resolve a situation.

I'm also not playing a cruel or benevolent character, so I don't pick those dialogue options. So why are people outraged about optional might options? You don't wanna be a strong bruiser? Don't use those options. Like I don't use cruel or benevolent with my character, even though I can if I wanted to
最后由 psychotron666 编辑于; 2019 年 2 月 22 日 上午 8:47
Ancalagon 2019 年 2 月 22 日 上午 9:00 
all the "classes" in this game are made almost similar without a real apparent difference that establishes the generic uniqueness normally known ... I wrote about the mage, but good or bad all have been "flaked" in their sense ....

a game centered on a "cute" story where the distribution of characteristics (diplomacy, stealth, athleticism, religion, etc.) is more important in the game because of the texts presented, even if all the narrative path is good or not bad any choice you make, even if wrong always leads to the same final result ....

the class system ultimately in this game is destroyed, ruined, ridiculed, as to think that in a group is necessary a thief rather than a warrior and irrelevant , so a mage, the system is focused on the characteristics that cripple and ruin the sense of the classes ...

call the heroes or super heroes at this point, because this is what they are, individuals with powers and abilities generally "relative" (a charmer in this game could have the possibility to cast spells, but if you put 20 in force and to climb the remaining characteristic points in constitution and dexterity high scores, you always have a warrior in any case, so it is destroyed the sense of the presence of a mage and a class) .... "slowly" I'm seeing games that are advertised that are broadly focused on super heroes and not on the "normal" game classes .... this game has super heroes

I hope the text is understandable
最后由 Ancalagon 编辑于; 2019 年 2 月 22 日 上午 9:31
psychotron666 2019 年 2 月 22 日 上午 9:32 
引用自 Ancalagon
all the "classes" in this game are made almost similar without a real apparent difference that establishes the generic uniqueness normally known ... I wrote about the mage, but good or bad all have been "flaked" in their sense ....

a game centered on a "cute" story where the distribution of characteristics (diplomacy, stealth, athleticism, religion, etc.) is more important in the game because of the texts presented, even if all the narrative path is good or not bad any choice you make, even if wrong always leads to the same final result ....

the class system ultimately in this game is destroyed, ruined, ridiculed, as to think that in a group is necessary a thief rather than a warrior and irrelevant , so a magician, the system is focused on the characteristics that cripple and ruin the sense of the classes ...

call the heroes or super heroes at this point, because this is what they are, individuals with powers and abilities generally "relative" (a charmer in this game could have the possibility to cast spells, but if you put 20 in force and to climb the remaining characteristic points in constitution and dexterity high scores, you always have a warrior in any case, so it is destroyed the sense of the presence of a mage and a class) .... "slowly" I'm seeing games that are advertised that are broadly focused on super heroes and not on the "normal" game classes .... this game has super heroes

I hope the text is understandable

I honestly think they just wanted to give their game more freedom and less class restrictive. Instead of being restricted by what armour or weapon I can use based on my class, I can use whatever weapon and armour I want and create any class I want.

The end result is you can make 5 wizard characters, who are completely different from each other. I can have a heavy armoured wizard with a two handed sword, or a stereotypical robed wizard with a staff, or a gun welding wizard with good athletics, etc etc.

So this is basically personal preference, but I prefer the more freedom in character builds
Ancalagon 2019 年 2 月 22 日 上午 9:36 
in a few words they tried to make the game with a presence of super heroes, where the concept of "class" is inexistent .... the strange thing and that if you go to see reviews or other on the net is described the game as if it has specific classes, which is not exactly correct
最后由 Ancalagon 编辑于; 2019 年 2 月 22 日 上午 9:38
psychotron666 2019 年 2 月 22 日 上午 9:41 
引用自 Ancalagon
in a few words they tried to make the game with a presence of super heroes, where the concept of "class" is non-existent .... the strange thing and that if you go to see reviews or other on the net is described the game as if it has specific classes, which is not exactly correct

They are specific classes, it's just not as restrictive as traditional class based games like dnd or baldurs gate (based off dnd).

It's more like elder scrolls (not skyrim, but like oblivion/Morrowind or elder scrolls online).

All classes have abilities that only that class can use, but any regular human skills (like athletics, sneaking, alchemy, etc etc) can be learned and used by anybody regardless of class.

Instead of every wizard having an academic background of studying books and not being athletic, you can make a wizard that grew up on the streets and knows how to bluff and deal with criminal underworld, who is perhaps athletic.

They have hard classes, but separated classes from backgrounds and roleplay. So you can roleplay any background you want, and use any class you want.

Realistically, there should be no reason why a wizard can't go learn to use swords and be athletic and wear armour. Anybody can learn those skills
最后由 psychotron666 编辑于; 2019 年 2 月 22 日 上午 9:43
Ancalagon 2019 年 2 月 22 日 上午 9:50 
I can not "make" a story (directed to the authors of course) where it is focused on magic and mage (wael sanctuary, the story about the titan) where all arguments are mentioned that go instead to take the world of those classic games instead when then in this game they play the game in another way (taking into account that in POE1 the mage was a mage, broadly) ... it is a nonsensical / illogical paradox


the words that follow are a SPOILER ATTENTION ....

among other things, not even in this version of POE2 although there is a dialogue with various great mage who ask the hero what he wants to do and the hero says to become a great mage in turn .... at the end of the whole game character (the hero) always has the same end of the cabbage, in which he becomes nothing of what he said he wanted to belong, that is to be a member of the association of the great mage

with final I mean after facing eoatas
最后由 Ancalagon 编辑于; 2019 年 2 月 22 日 上午 10:05
Mezner 2019 年 4 月 14 日 上午 5:37 
I'd like to give this thread a bump, because I FREAKING HATE what they have done with Wizards in PoE 2. Is there a mod or something to fix what the devs have done? This is unexceptable. I cannot even play a wizard in PoE 2 because of it. They do not at all feel like Wizards in any way now.
Autocthon 2019 年 4 月 14 日 上午 5:42 
Because being more powerful, more versatile, with a larger pool of available spells, and still having the most powerful spells in the game is "terrible" or a "nerf"
Mezner 2019 年 4 月 14 日 上午 5:54 
引用自 Autocthon
Because being more powerful, more versatile, with a larger pool of available spells, and still having the most powerful spells in the game is "terrible" or a "nerf"
Wizards in PoE1 were what wizards are traditionally supposed to be. You find spells in book, you learn those spells permenantly. Then you make your own book. This new wizard is stunted and malformed. You learn VERY FEW spells compared to the previous game, and the vast majority of your spells are LOCKED behind the book wall that cannot be defeated even at level 20. These are not wizards. These are sharletons.

You say wizards in PoE2 are more " powerful" than other spell casters? I completely and totally disagree. They have been nerfed heavily. All the other spell casting classes are FAR more powerful than the wizard is in PoE 2. The moment i get a ranged character, Aloth gets the boot and I never recruit him back into the party again except for the story mission. He sucks now. Even if you tailor make your own wizard and use a build for your main character, overall it still sucks.

You can no longer custom make your own spell list. Your trapped by the books you find. You MUST use this wizards book, while the entire time your asking yourself.. why cant I just make my own book? Why cant I just pay copper to spend time and effort to learn these spells.

NO SIR your incorrect. I've played PoE 2 4 times all the way though, the last 3 times, I never used a wizard at all, except as mentioned above, and the game was actually easier. Forcing yourself to use wizards or alloth in PoE 2, weakens your party overall.
Autocthon 2019 年 4 月 14 日 上午 6:12 
引用自 Rightous_Man
Wizards in PoE1 were what wizards are traditionally supposed to be. You find spells in book, you learn those spells permenantly. Then you make your own book. This new wizard is stunted and malformed. You learn VERY FEW spells compared to the previous game, and the vast majority of your spells are LOCKED behind the book wall that cannot be defeated even at level 20. These are not wizards. These are sharletons.

You say wizards in PoE2 are more " powerful" than other spell casters? I completely and totally disagree. They have been nerfed heavily. All the other spell casting classes are FAR more powerful than the wizard is in PoE 2. The moment i get a ranged character, Aloth gets the boot and I never recruit him back into the party again except for the story mission. He sucks now. Even if you tailor make your own wizard and use a build for your main character, overall it still sucks.
You'r eplaying wizard wrong then. Combusting Wounds is the single most abusable damage spell in the game. The various CC options are the most reliable in the game. Missiles? Missiles beat every other damage spell for raw DPS endgame. Period.

You can no longer custom make your own spell list. Your trapped by the books you find. You MUST use this wizards book, while the entire time your asking yourself.. why cant I just make my own book? Why cant I just pay copper to spend time and effort to learn these spells.
In PoE a Wizard could walk into combat with exactly 4 spells of each level. That's it. No more, no less. Even worse you only got to cast 4 spells of each level without resting while no normal this is relatively generous due to resting mechanics at higher difficulties and with harder challenges in place this becomes extremely restrictive

In PoE 2 you gain 28 skll points in total. Meaning that a worst case scenario even spread of spell distribution gives you 3 spells per spell level before book. 5 after. That's more than PoE. But since you always have the 3 choices per level your no longer have to waste spell slots in your grimoire to prepare "utility" spells, you can simply have them always available, and the best grimoire's in the game have the most powerful damage spells.

You don't need to "learn" spells to have access to them. In fact the vast majority of spels you learn just get ignored for the rest of teh game afterward (there are better options, they're too situational, they don't fit your strategy).

NO SIR your incorrect. I've played PoE 2 4 times all the way though, the last 3 times, I never used a wizard at all, except as mentioned above, and the game was actually easier. Forcing yourself to use wizards or alloth in PoE 2, weakens your party overall.
The fact that you don't know how to use a PoE2 wizard doesn't make wizards worse than in PoE1.

More spells available in combat,
Most powerful damaging spells of any class.
Most reliable CC of any class.
Best buff spells of any class.
Most effective skill points of any class (46 vs 37 of other casters and 28 of non-caster including both Cipher and Chanter).

Every class in the game is made more powerful by multiclassing Wizard (a decision which adds +14 talent points to your build). Single class Wizard is literally and widely accepted one of the most powerful single classes in the game, and blood mage only made it more powerful.

Equip Ninagauth's Grimoire. Congratulations you now have a 4th level spell more powerful than most 8th level spells in other classes. And a 3rd level spell that competes favorably with most 5th level spells in other classes. And they're included in the single best Evocation grimoire in the game.

Wizard's are unbelievably broken in PoE2. And are broken in every combat, not just the combat you're absolutely certain you'll be resting after like in PoE1. By endgame Minoletta's Minor Missiles is capable of matching DPS with the 3rd or 4th level spells available to other classes just because of the power level scaling effects.
最后由 Autocthon 编辑于; 2019 年 4 月 14 日 上午 6:13
Mezner 2019 年 4 月 14 日 上午 6:32 
引用自 Autocthon
引用自 Rightous_Man
Wizards in PoE1 were what wizards are traditionally supposed to be. You find spells in book, you learn those spells permenantly. Then you make your own book. This new wizard is stunted and malformed. You learn VERY FEW spells compared to the previous game, and the vast majority of your spells are LOCKED behind the book wall that cannot be defeated even at level 20. These are not wizards. These are sharletons.

You say wizards in PoE2 are more " powerful" than other spell casters? I completely and totally disagree. They have been nerfed heavily. All the other spell casting classes are FAR more powerful than the wizard is in PoE 2. The moment i get a ranged character, Aloth gets the boot and I never recruit him back into the party again except for the story mission. He sucks now. Even if you tailor make your own wizard and use a build for your main character, overall it still sucks.
You'r eplaying wizard wrong then. Combusting Wounds is the single most abusable damage spell in the game. The various CC options are the most reliable in the game. Missiles? Missiles beat every other damage spell for raw DPS endgame. Period.

You can no longer custom make your own spell list. Your trapped by the books you find. You MUST use this wizards book, while the entire time your asking yourself.. why cant I just make my own book? Why cant I just pay copper to spend time and effort to learn these spells.
In PoE a Wizard could walk into combat with exactly 4 spells of each level. That's it. No more, no less. Even worse you only got to cast 4 spells of each level without resting while no normal this is relatively generous due to resting mechanics at higher difficulties and with harder challenges in place this becomes extremely restrictive

In PoE 2 you gain 28 skll points in total. Meaning that a worst case scenario even spread of spell distribution gives you 3 spells per spell level before book. 5 after. That's more than PoE. But since you always have the 3 choices per level your no longer have to waste spell slots in your grimoire to prepare "utility" spells, you can simply have them always available, and the best grimoire's in the game have the most powerful damage spells.

You don't need to "learn" spells to have access to them. In fact the vast majority of spels you learn just get ignored for the rest of teh game afterward (there are better options, they're too situational, they don't fit your strategy).

NO SIR your incorrect. I've played PoE 2 4 times all the way though, the last 3 times, I never used a wizard at all, except as mentioned above, and the game was actually easier. Forcing yourself to use wizards or alloth in PoE 2, weakens your party overall.
The fact that you don't know how to use a PoE2 wizard doesn't make wizards worse than in PoE1.

More spells available in combat,
Most powerful damaging spells of any class.
Most reliable CC of any class.
Best buff spells of any class.
Most effective skill points of any class (46 vs 37 of other casters and 28 of non-caster including both Cipher and Chanter).

Every class in the game is made more powerful by multiclassing Wizard (a decision which adds +14 talent points to your build). Single class Wizard is literally and widely accepted one of the most powerful single classes in the game, and blood mage only made it more powerful.

Equip Ninagauth's Grimoire. Congratulations you now have a 4th level spell more powerful than most 8th level spells in other classes. And a 3rd level spell that competes favorably with most 5th level spells in other classes. And they're included in the single best Evocation grimoire in the game.

Wizard's are unbelievably broken in PoE2. And are broken in every combat, not just the combat you're absolutely certain you'll be resting after like in PoE1. By endgame Minoletta's Minor Missiles is capable of matching DPS with the 3rd or 4th level spells available to other classes just because of the power level scaling effects.


You can drag out whatever explanation you want. Are wizards still bound by their books in PoE2? yes, thank you.

Edit: Not to mention the fact that, this person is just wrong. Using ranged characters in place of Alloth or your own wizard, or your character even. Will net you better results in almost every battle. Its far to easy to transform your musketeer into a artillery piece. Or just make Edar the ultimate Tank. Why bother, having to swap out constantly which book you have and all that, when you can just used regular weapons and class powers, rather than these spells.

nope, sorry.
最后由 Mezner 编辑于; 2019 年 4 月 14 日 上午 6:35
Autocthon 2019 年 4 月 14 日 上午 6:39 
引用自 Rightous_Man


You can drag out whatever explanation you want. Are wizards still bound by their books in PoE2? yes, thank you.
They were even more limited by their books in PoE1. 4 spells, none shared between book swaps. Which means for every spell you need to have easy access to your grimoire's lose one effective spell slot.

Wizards were buffed in PoE2. That's simple truth. Just because it's not the xact fantasy you want it to be doesn't mean they're ineffective (they aren't).

You want to complain about a class being bad? Complain about Cipher. The only reason it's even considered good is because it's the only class with the Brilliant inspiration (meaning the only class that enables a dedicated Evoker to break the game in half).
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发帖日期: 2019 年 2 月 20 日 下午 1:20
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