Question for our Players: What is...

[genintco]

... the biggest amount of bottles of wine you were able to produce in a single year?

We're working on a new feature and need to work on balancing it.

Many thanks in advance!

MARK

[Son Of Perdition]

So far, with 4 plots of Pinot, 2 of Chard, and 2 of Styra, it was something like 5000 odd bottles. Next time I play if I remember I'll get an exact count.

[Navinod]

Are you guys looking for a maximum total bottle count or a maximum yield per field count? Those would require very different play styles.

I've only ever had use for 6 total fields before I'm perfectly set for the rest of the game, money wise, so I've never had any particular need to push the total amount of wine beyond the maximum storage of the chateau.

Depending upon the needed data, I can try to push a playthrough to find the info you need.

[moosc]

Managed 1500 odd bottles with just two fields.

[genintco]

Originally posted by Navinod:

Are you guys looking for a maximum total bottle count or a maximum yield per field count? Those would require very different play styles.

I've only ever had use for 6 total fields before I'm perfectly set for the rest of the game, money wise, so I've never had any particular need to push the total amount of wine beyond the maximum storage of the chateau.

Depending upon the needed data, I can try to push a playthrough to find the info you need.

Hey Navinod,

I'd actually like to take you up on that offer. If you've got a spare hour or so, could you load up a game where you've got relatively good financial standing and play in a way that you're only trying to maximize the total number of bottles you can make every year. Let me know what the range of bottles you are able to produce. I need this information as we're currently balancing the new Tavern building.

I appreciate the help!

MARK

[samuel]

Hi,

with 5 tiles of Chard, Pinot and Syrah each I made 6600 C, 4560 PN and 7800 Syrah. That was not a good year for the PN with overexposure for a coupe months but all 6 ripe at harvest in Oct. You can see from this 21,000 in a good year with 15 tiles is doable with marny forests also and
a few more tiles can be planted.
Max capacity of Chateau 3 is 15,000 bottles so way less than you can produce. Of course many years are way less like 6000 bottles total because of fugal rot

[genintco]

Originally posted by atomicsoda2:

Hi,

with 5 tiles of Chard, Pinot and Syrah each I made 6600 C, 4560 PN and 7800 Syrah. That was not a good year for the PN with overexposure for a coupe months but all 6 ripe at harvest in Oct. You can see from this 21,000 in a good year with 15 tiles is doable with marny forests also and
a few more tiles can be planted.
Max capacity of Chateau 3 is 15,000 bottles so way less than you can produce. Of course many years are way less like 6000 bottles total because of fugal rot

Brilliant. Excellent data! Will account for this as I tweak balance. Thanks, atomicsoda.

MARK

[Navinod]

Ok, depending upon how worthwhile abusing the mechanic can become, I could see a situation where, later on, you could produce 1k bottles per field, using syrah (Because it is easier to maintain and reliably produce high quality wines), and convert all field to syrah for a total of 31 fields of syrah. That makes 31,000 bottles of 5 star Syrah each year. I get that from the starting 3 tiles being unable to be sandy tiles and the max tiles being 34(?). It would require you to play around exploiting the Tavern mechanic. As a side note, I highly suspect that the most bottles you can yield per field of Syrah is 1k bottles without any forests. And, mathmatically, there is no simple pattern that allows you to produce a larger number of bottles than using every tile you can as a varietal. It sure makes it tougher to manage, but your theoretical maximum is much higher than if you use any forest or even many forest tiles.

Before anyone argues, the math is pretty simple.

7 tiles sets, one tile and each adjacent tile.

Forest in the middle/6 wines: 6.6x, with x being that year's harvest.

Wine in the middle/6 forests: 1.6x.

7 wine tiles/no forests: 7x.

There is one more option that MAY be able to produce more wine, but I'm not 100% that the dimensions of the map allow for it work properly. It would allow every wine field to be able to have two forests affecting them, which would equal out to 7.2x. I have not seen a reason to play the game through in a way to allow for that building pattern for a simple 3% increase, but perhaps, if the tavern mechanic is valuable enough to exploit, I would be willing to give it a shot.

Edit: If I'm incorrect in my math somewhere, please point it out. I have not used advanced math regularly in almost 20 years.

[samuel]

that seems like too few bottles per tile as a max. If the weather has the right mix of rain and sun I think you can get more without a forest. There is also the pre season soil preperation worker action which can give you more yield. does the bottle count chage based on pressing?

[Navinod]

I'm not sure if it does change based on pressing. But when I go through a Syrah year with only one month of anything negative (fungal rot in this case, and nothing else), I pulled out about 900 bottles from each tile. That would mean about 1k total. If there are other factors I'm missing, then sure, it could change greatly from my numbers. Perhaps different vines produce more grapes than other vines, perhaps weather plays a factor on growth (though I've never noticed anything indicating that), or perhaps not only ripeness, but also growth rate, is affected by canopy coverage (though I've also never noticed anything to that effect either). I guess each could be tested individually, or someone could open up the code and find the answers that way. I'd be interested in the answers, though I'm not particularly interested in testing each. I always am glad to have someone point out where I'm wrong as long as they have testable proof for me. I'd even accept a spreadsheet record of 50+ years with total fields and how many fields are connected to a forest with the total yield as circumstantial proof. After all, detailed records tend to tell a fairly decent story when they are not being manipulated to tell a particular story.

And it sure did seem low the first time I thought about it. It always seemed much higher, but an almost perfect year only net me 900 bottles, so I guess I just felt like the numbers were higher. If you can get one higher than 1k, let me know and I'll try to figure out what I did wrong.

[genintco]

Originally posted by Navinod:

I'm not sure if it does change based on pressing. But when I go through a Syrah year with only one month of anything negative (fungal rot in this case, and nothing else), I pulled out about 900 bottles from each tile. That would mean about 1k total. If there are other factors I'm missing, then sure, it could change greatly from my numbers. Perhaps different vines produce more grapes than other vines, perhaps weather plays a factor on growth (though I've never noticed anything indicating that), or perhaps not only ripeness, but also growth rate, is affected by canopy coverage (though I've also never noticed anything to that effect either). I guess each could be tested individually, or someone could open up the code and find the answers that way. I'd be interested in the answers, though I'm not particularly interested in testing each. I always am glad to have someone point out where I'm wrong as long as they have testable proof for me. I'd even accept a spreadsheet record of 50+ years with total fields and how many fields are connected to a forest with the total yield as circumstantial proof. After all, detailed records tend to tell a fairly decent story when they are not being manipulated to tell a particular story.

And it sure did seem low the first time I thought about it. It always seemed much higher, but an almost perfect year only net me 900 bottles, so I guess I just felt like the numbers were higher. If you can get one higher than 1k, let me know and I'll try to figure out what I did wrong.

Great insights. I calculated the best case scenario, but this is highly unlikely unless a player gets ridiculously lucky. I've tested a few scenarios based on feedback (including those from testers) and have figured out a sort of Goldilocks setting for the Tavern. It will certainly need a bit more fine tuning, but I think it should work great as an alternative means of income (even for those looking to shun distributors entirely from mid-game onwards). Wait for the update and please let me know about your experiences.

MARK

[froggr]

I've cracked all the recipes for 5 star wines, so I've been ramping up production to maximize cash. On my current save file, I've just managed to generate a Pinot Noir harvest which, without any other bottles in the cellar, is unable to be bottled. So my maximum harvest is 177 barrels + change from 4 other tiles of wines. Not quite sure what to do with all this Pinot now, not to mention, I'll probably have this "problem" annually!

http://imgur.com/a/7XXUt

[genintco]

Originally posted by froggr:

I've cracked all the recipes for 5 star wines, so I've been ramping up production to maximize cash. On my current save file, I've just managed to generate a Pinot Noir harvest which, without any other bottles in the cellar, is unable to be bottled. So my maximum harvest is 177 barrels + change from 4 other tiles of wines. Not quite sure what to do with all this Pinot now, not to mention, I'll probably have this "problem" annually!

http://imgur.com/a/7XXUt

forggr, what year are you in in this game?

[Kazen]

Originally posted by genintco:

Originally posted by froggr:

I've cracked all the recipes for 5 star wines, so I've been ramping up production to maximize cash. On my current save file, I've just managed to generate a Pinot Noir harvest which, without any other bottles in the cellar, is unable to be bottled. So my maximum harvest is 177 barrels + change from 4 other tiles of wines. Not quite sure what to do with all this Pinot now, not to mention, I'll probably have this "problem" annually!

http://imgur.com/a/7XXUt

forggr, what year are you in in this game?

He is at 2040 if you look close.
I am just learning but about 1k bottles per tile if you pull off a bumper crop/great year seems to be about the high end.

[scott_smart2000]

Good grief, I'm struggling to manage 13 fields broken up into 3 different grapes. That made me twitch a little looking at that. But yeah, I'm almost at that 2040 point, and if I added one field of each by a tree (might need 2 of the Clay wine as they produce less barrels than the other 2 soils), even without the added tech 10%, a good year could be a real issue if they all came together in the same month. You have to really zone in on that 5 star so the vendors sell it fast enough. That's even accounting for rot hitting in May like clockwork on all 3 too.

[froggr]

Originally posted by genintco:

Originally posted by froggr:

I've cracked all the recipes for 5 star wines, so I've been ramping up production to maximize cash. On my current save file, I've just managed to generate a Pinot Noir harvest which, without any other bottles in the cellar, is unable to be bottled. So my maximum harvest is 177 barrels + change from 4 other tiles of wines. Not quite sure what to do with all this Pinot now, not to mention, I'll probably have this "problem" annually!

http://imgur.com/a/7XXUt

forggr, what year are you in in this game?

2040. And if I counted right, I have capacity for a couple more tiles. It seems like attempting to maximize harvest of a single grape type is going to lead to inability to bottle fairly easily in the end-game.

Originally posted by scott_smart2000:

Good grief, I'm struggling to manage 13 fields broken up into 3 different grapes. That made me twitch a little looking at that.

I have only a single loam, and a couple sandy tiles (because it got too expensive to keep rolling for clay). By having predominantly one grape type, the tech which trims all tiles of the same type at once makes having that many fields manageable.

Originally posted by scott_smart2000:

You have to really zone in on that 5 star so the vendors sell it fast enough. That's even accounting for rot hitting in May like clockwork on all 3 too.

I regularly produce 5 star wines. Only time I've had an issue is with extremely rainy years which prevent ripening from getting >4 sweetness. The issue I'm having is with being able to go from barrels -> bottles, not with getting it sold once in bottles.