Body Engineering

[Herr-Ghallas]

Hi everyone,

I have a couple of question regarding the body engineering facility

1) can you get new coumpounds another way than completing story missions ?

2) Why some of my agents can be administrated a coumpound and others cannot ?
Is it stat related ? level related ?

[Delberto]

3) Are there any side effects?

[xmd1997]

1. Yea. Im pretty sure you can also unlock them through intel(informers, loot,etc)
2. This is a good question that Im also looking for an answer for.
3.Doesn't seem to be any side effects other than the fact that certian compounds can block specific ones. You'll eventually get a compound that lets you "Detox" your agent in case you mess up or want to start over.

[Gunboat Diplomat]

Can confirm for (1) you get new compounds from interrogations (I've only gotten them with MK Ultra, however my sample size is also ♥♥♥♥ since I built it early and only did the default interrogation with two enemy agents.)

2) Level-based, I think. IIRC you need to reach lvl 4 before applying compounds. This should become a non-issue later in the game as you eventually are getting agent candidates that start at lvl 5 or higher (i.e. level for agent candidates scales with story progression).

3) Can confirm what xmd said.

[DareDevil]

2) It is not level-based. Some agent at 2 level can apply compound, some at 4 level - cannot. So this question is open.

[kingts]

Its a broken mechanic, you can select them in a an order that can make your agents invinsible in the game.

[RexEviL]

Check guide...

[frankie60]

Originally posted by kingts:

Its a broken mechanic, you can select them in a an order that can make your agents invinsible in the game.

You are wrong. It's not broken.

Yeah, you can make super agents, but it's doable if you know the exact correct application order, as you said. If you're just playing the game, you won't get that super effect. But if you search it out, find the optimum order and apply it then it happens. It's supposed to be a once in a lifetime, happy accident, but the internet makes it the default because people suck and like to cheat.

So it's not broken. People just have no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ integrity. They never did.

[Dorok]

I made a python script, you give the list of chemical you have, the number of best series you want and it returns in 1 or 2s max, the n best series for various criteria.

A low knowledge of programming could easily allow edit the script to add different criteria.
https://pastebin.com/XB1mLxHW

So it's even worse than picking a few solutions posted around on internet.

But seriously, the system is just too complex, it's a bizarre design choice.

[Dorok]

An example of output for the script with no param, so when having all chem and 5 best series:

5 best total series:
AMPEA Bolasterone Bolandiol EPO ARGOXY Raloxifene AMPK TST Albumin IGF-1 XENOXY DXAMPEA Danazol Mannitol Anadrol Cyclofenil [139,126,130,103,498]
DXAMPEA Danazol Mannitol THG TST Anadrol Bolasterone Bolandiol Cyclofenil Calusterone AMPEA BMA DHEA EPO [149,119,130,89,487]
AMPEA Bolasterone Bolandiol EPO ARGOXY Raloxifene AMPK TST Albumin DXAMPEA Danazol IGF-1 Mannitol Anadrol Cyclofenil [122,126,130,107,485]
AMPEA DXAMPEA Danazol THG EPO Mannitol TST Anadrol BMA Bolasterone Bolandiol Cyclofenil DHEA [149,109,130,91,479]
DXAMPEA Danazol Mannitol THG TST Anadrol Bolasterone Bolandiol Cyclofenil Calusterone AMPEA BMA DHEA [136,119,130,91,476]

5 best motoric series:
AMPEA Bolasterone EPO ARGOXY Gonadorelin Raloxifene AMPK FGF Bolandiol Cyclofenil TST Albumin DXAMPEA Danazol IGF-1 [64,90,118,127,399]
AMPEA Bolasterone EPO ARGOXY Gonadorelin Raloxifene AMPK FGF Bolandiol Cyclofenil TST Albumin DXAMPEA IGF-1 [66,90,103,125,384]
AMPEA Bolasterone EPO ARGOXY Gonadorelin Raloxifene AMPK FGF Bolandiol Cyclofenil TST Albumin IGF-1 XENOXY DXAMPEA Danazol [81,90,118,123,412]
AMPEA Bolasterone EPO ARGOXY Gonadorelin Raloxifene AMPK FGF Bolandiol Cyclofenil TST Albumin IGF-1 XENOXY DXAMPEA [83,90,103,121,397]
AMPEA Bolasterone Bolandiol Cyclofenil EPO ARGOXY Gonadorelin Raloxifene AMPK TST Albumin DXAMPEA Danazol IGF-1 [69,89,115,119,392]

5 best respiratory series:
AMPEA DXAMPEA Danazol THG EPO Mannitol TST Anadrol BMA Formebolone Stanozolol Bolasterone Bolandiol Cyclofenil [135,99,140,80,454]
AMPEA DXAMPEA Danazol Mannitol THG TST Anadrol BMA Formebolone Stanozolol Bolasterone Bolandiol Cyclofenil [122,99,140,82,443]
DXAMPEA Danazol Mannitol THG TST Anadrol BMA Formebolone Stanozolol Bolasterone Bolandiol Cyclofenil Calusterone AMPEA [122,109,140,80,451]
AMPEA TST Anadrol DXAMPEA Danazol BMA THG EPO Formebolone Stanozolol Bolasterone Bolandiol Cyclofenil [97,75,140,90,402]
DXAMPEA Danazol Mannitol THG TST Anadrol BMA Formebolone Stanozolol Bolasterone Bolandiol Cyclofenil Calusterone AMPEA EPO [135,109,140,78,462]

5 best sensory series:
Bolasterone Bolandiol Calusterone AMPEA EPO ARGOXY Raloxifene AMPK TST Albumin IGF-1 XENOXY DXAMPEA Danazol Mannitol Anadrol [121,155,101,81,458]
Bolasterone Bolandiol Calusterone AMPEA EPO ARGOXY Raloxifene AMPK TST Albumin DXAMPEA Danazol IGF-1 Mannitol Anadrol [104,155,101,85,445]
AMPEA Bolasterone Bolandiol EPO ARGOXY Raloxifene AMPK TST Albumin DXAMPEA Danazol IGF-1 Mannitol Anadrol [104,145,101,87,437]
AMPEA Bolasterone Bolandiol EPO ARGOXY Raloxifene AMPK TST Albumin IGF-1 XENOXY DXAMPEA Danazol Mannitol Anadrol [121,145,101,83,450]
Bolasterone Bolandiol Calusterone AMPEA EPO ARGOXY Gonadorelin Raloxifene AMPK TST Albumin IGF-1 XENOXY DXAMPEA Danazol Mannitol [106,142,86,83,417]

5 best circulatory series:
AMPEA Bolasterone Bolandiol EPO ARGOXY TST XENOXY DXAMPEA Danazol Mannitol Anadrol Cyclofenil Raloxifene AMPK [159,83,72,66,380]
AMPEA Bolasterone Bolandiol EPO ARGOXY TST XENOXY DXAMPEA Danazol Mannitol Anadrol BMA Cyclofenil DHEA Raloxifene [159,110,101,69,439]
AMPEA Bolasterone Bolandiol EPO ARGOXY TST XENOXY DXAMPEA Danazol Mannitol Anadrol BMA Cyclofenil DHEA [159,91,116,79,445]
AMPEA Bolasterone Bolandiol EPO ARGOXY Raloxifene AMPK TST Albumin XENOXY DXAMPEA Danazol Mannitol Anadrol Cyclofenil [149,107,102,72,430]
DXAMPEA Danazol Mannitol THG TST Anadrol Bolasterone Bolandiol Cyclofenil Calusterone AMPEA BMA DHEA EPO [149,119,130,89,487]

5 most average attributes series:
AMPEA Bolasterone Bolandiol Cyclofenil EPO ARGOXY Gonadorelin Raloxifene AMPK Albumin DXAMPEA Danazol IGF-1 Mannitol [100,100,100,100,400]
AMPEA TST Anadrol BMA DHEA DXAMPEA THG [85,85,85,85,340]
AMPEA Bolasterone EPO ARGOXY Gonadorelin Raloxifene AMPK Albumin FGF Bolandiol Cyclofenil IGF-1 XENOXY DXAMPEA Danazol Mannitol [112,101,103,104,420]
Bolasterone Bolandiol Cyclofenil Calusterone AMPEA EPO ARGOXY Raloxifene AMPK Albumin IGF-1 XENOXY DXAMPEA [79,85,89,86,339]
AMPEA DXAMPEA Gonadorelin FGF Danazol BMA Formebolone Formoterol Bolasterone Mannitol [64,68,62,67,261]

Lol. Last criteria is a bit weird, it was just for curiosity.

[Gregorovitch]

Originally posted by frankie60:

Yeah, you can make super agents, but it's doable if you know the exact correct application order, as you said. If you're just playing the game, you won't get that super effect.

I thought I was just too lazy ot stupid or both to work out how the compounds worked. Are you saying it's deliberately opaque so that occasionally through luck you hit on a super agent combo and get like 4 AP, 2FP and movement range of 7 (which is pretty much what's happened to me)?

Also I find that the same drugs affect different agents very differently. On one a drug might improve movement by 2 on one agent and the same drug reduce movement by 1 on another.

Is this purely because of combo effects of various cocktails or is it set that the drugs can affect different agents differently?

[frankie60]

Originally posted by Gregorovitch:

Originally posted by frankie60:

Yeah, you can make super agents, but it's doable if you know the exact correct application order, as you said. If you're just playing the game, you won't get that super effect.

I thought I was just too lazy ot stupid or both to work out how the compounds worked. Are you saying it's deliberately opaque so that occasionally through luck you hit on a super agent combo and get like 4 AP, 2FP and movement range of 7 (which is pretty much what's happened to me)?

Also I find that the same drugs affect different agents very differently. On one a drug might improve movement by 2 on one agent and the same drug reduce movement by 1 on another.

Is this purely because of combo effects of various cocktails or is it set that the drugs can affect different agents differently?

There are so many variables that affect what happens to what agent, it has to be at least somewhat random... But the whole point of the drug phase is to have agents that have the ability to finish the game... So honestly, without having had access to every drug, I'm gonna assume you can get pretty close to super in any combination. Just some combinations are better than others. Having given it some additional thought, it may just be broken. I'm really not far along enough to say, but I have started implementing the drugs to my agents.

It's a Min/Max thing... And ultimately I guess if its a problem for any particular individual, there is no requirement to use the drugs.

[frankie60]

Originally posted by Dorok:

I made a python script, you give the list of chemical you have, the number of best series you want and it returns in 1 or 2s max, the n best series for various criteria.

A low knowledge of programming could easily allow edit the script to add different criteria.
https://pastebin.com/XB1mLxHW

So it's even worse than picking a few solutions posted around on internet.

But seriously, the system is just too complex, it's a bizarre design choice.

So do you see body engineering as a cheat? Or is it needed?

[kingts]

Originally posted by frankie60:

Originally posted by Dorok:

I made a python script, you give the list of chemical you have, the number of best series you want and it returns in 1 or 2s max, the n best series for various criteria.

A low knowledge of programming could easily allow edit the script to add different criteria.
https://pastebin.com/XB1mLxHW

So it's even worse than picking a few solutions posted around on internet.

But seriously, the system is just too complex, it's a bizarre design choice.

So do you see body engineering as a cheat? Or is it needed?

First off, it is a mechanic that has solutions that can make your agents invinsible. If that is not a broken cheat as you call it. Then what is it? So, you are wrong. I did not reveal anything did I.
Now it’s an augmentation mechanic featured in many games. I am sure they will address the combinations. It will alter as time goes on, but don't insult my intelligence because I figured out something by accident and call me a cheat. I played the game on easy with 50 agents and was deliberate in finding all sorts of combos. It was fun, but if people need to cheat. I stated the obvious in that the internet is there for that. I even found some other combinations I like that aren't posted on the internet.

It is unfortunate that the internet spoils things for others. Endings to games, sequences, builds, tips and yes cheats. I am sorry that bothers you. I am old. I played many turn-based games over the last 30 years. I see patterns in all of them.

Is body Engineering a cheat? if you find the combination, it’s a peak augmentation. That does not mean in hard play or ironman it serves as an advantage. It could just even the playing field a little. In my opinion, it is base mechanic that will be altered. They will add more chemicals, more combinations. For now. You want invisible agent drones, because they are all the same in the end.

Is it needed? In the game yes or die. Your Agents cannot keep up as the game levels without it.

I did not insult anyone with my answer. I said a truthful first impression, sorry that bothered you. All I can say is have fun, it’s there and enjoy the game, but don't act like it’s not flawed or has issues. I have said it before. It will be interesting to see where this game is at in a year.
Hope I answered your question.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by frankie60:

Originally posted by Dorok:

I made a python script, you give the list of chemical you have, the number of best series you want and it returns in 1 or 2s max, the n best series for various criteria.

A low knowledge of programming could easily allow edit the script to add different criteria.
https://pastebin.com/XB1mLxHW

So it's even worse than picking a few solutions posted around on internet.

But seriously, the system is just too complex, it's a bizarre design choice.

So do you see body engineering as a cheat? Or is it needed?

A cheat? Dev can't cheat for their own game. Do you mean such script is a cheat or not?

I suppose the script can be considered as a cheat. And I don't think body building needs be optimized, so no such script isn't needed.

For the design, for sure the extreme complexity makes it more a sort of RNG, but it's not working that well. At first you apply the chem as they appear so you end with series of agents with same body building. New hired agents starts with some body building so some different blocks and some different unlock, so they could lead to more variations. But once you find even half by chance some significantly better body building result, then you'll tend copy a few you found and apply them on all agents you use.

I did the script for the fun, but I intend try use it when having like 10+ chem, just to see possibilities at mid game.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by Gregorovitch:

Originally posted by frankie60:

Yeah, you can make super agents, but it's doable if you know the exact correct application order, as you said. If you're just playing the game, you won't get that super effect.

I thought I was just too lazy ot stupid or both to work out how the compounds worked. Are you saying it's deliberately opaque so that occasionally through luck you hit on a super agent combo and get like 4 AP, 2FP and movement range of 7 (which is pretty much what's happened to me)?

Also I find that the same drugs affect different agents very differently. On one a drug might improve movement by 2 on one agent and the same drug reduce movement by 1 on another.

Is this purely because of combo effects of various cocktails or is it set that the drugs can affect different agents differently?

From players observation the chemical affects only the base attributes, motoric, respiratory, sensory and circulatory. It's those attributes and some skills that influence all other characteristics, plus there's a small variations of base attributes without any chem nor any skill.

So it's more probable that effects looking different are coming from combinations of changes and rounding. Moreover some secondary attributes are linked, at least there's the number of AP, and the walking distance for one AP. For example a chem could increase walking distance on an agent, and significantly decrease it for another but you didn't noticed this other agent gained one AP. Another common effect is a chem increasing walking distance of 1 for an agent but not for another agent. It's because there's steps/rounding.

But ok the game didn't attracted massive amount of players, so it's possible there's effects not yet noticed. I don't think all formula have been defined by a player.

What's sure is when you reset an agent and apply a series, you get similar effects with some variations clearly coming from skills and base attributes values. There's perhaps some other special effects.