Why the hate?

[SeaOfSeagulls]

This is a great game, this includes mechanics that aren't in other games? I get why others don't like it like the frame lock but I don't really mind that stuff. The only thing I would like to have would be more levels like an infinite level generator but so far this game is great.

[>-FISH-D]

The gameplay itself is absolutly wonderful but the framerate issue is causing weird stutter issues and lagging mouse movement on powerful machines with g-sync monitors.

[Mova]

Originally posted by -Fish-:

The gameplay itself is absolutly wonderful but the framerate issue is causing weird stutter issues and lagging mouse movement on powerful machines with g-sync monitors.

This right here. It does not feel smooth at all. As someone who was really looking forward to this I'm really disappointed.

[clay gamer]

Massive pacing issues, gameplay mechanics that you use once that then become useless until the developer litteraly puts a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sign post up saying "Use ____ Here!", leaving you zero choice of what to actually do.

The gameplay sucks and the level design gets reptetetive 20 minutes in.

[Mojo The Rising]

Originally posted by Daniel:

Massive pacing issues, gameplay mechanics that you use once that then become useless until the developer litteraly puts a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sign post up saying "Use ____ Here!", leaving you zero choice of what to actually do.

The gameplay sucks and the level design gets reptetetive 20 minutes in.

That's only in the pirate version of the game.

[Mr. No_Effs_Given]

Originally posted by Daniel:

Massive pacing issues, gameplay mechanics that you use once that then become useless until the developer litteraly puts a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sign post up saying "Use ____ Here!", leaving you zero choice of what to actually do.

The gameplay sucks and the level design gets reptetetive 20 minutes in.

Couldnt disagree more.

[MrUnbecoming]

Originally posted by MikeThePlayr:

That's only in the pirate version of the game.

I'm just posting to see if it shows that I own it after refunding it. Nope. It's possible that the player beforehand refunded it. I did, because I just could not get used to the controls after 1+1/2 hours. The split shooting is such a core mechanic to the game's design, but it's incredibly clunky and cumbersome even with M+KB

[Mojo The Rising]

Originally posted by MrUnbecoming:

Originally posted by MikeThePlayr:

That's only in the pirate version of the game.

I'm just posting to see if it shows that I own it after refunding it. Nope. It's possible that the player beforehand refunded it. I did, because I just could not get used to the controls after 1+1/2 hours. The split shooting is such a core mechanic to the game's design, but it's incredibly clunky and cumbersome even with M+KB

Well I'm loving it with a controller, but different strokes...

[MrUnbecoming]

Originally posted by MikeThePlayr:

Well I'm loving it with a controller, but different strokes...

I found that there were too many controls if that makes sense. By default, A is jump. With a twin-stick platformer, this is cancer because you have to push A, then move your entire finger to the stick. It's terrible. That's why I bound it to LT. BUT, then by default LT is split-shot, so then you have to figure out a good place to put THAT. But there just isn't. You can't just toggle split-shot, if you could it would be fine. But you have to hold the stupid button for split shot, and that doesn't work with a bumper, or a button. You basically need LT as jump to shoot and jump with any kind of accuracy, but then you won't have a good place to put split. That's why keyboard and mouse imo is a lot better, since split is on RMB it feels more natural. But even with that, the game itself doesn't feel right.

[clay gamer]

Originally posted by MikeThePlayr:

Originally posted by Daniel:

Massive pacing issues, gameplay mechanics that you use once that then become useless until the developer litteraly puts a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sign post up saying "Use ____ Here!", leaving you zero choice of what to actually do.

The gameplay sucks and the level design gets reptetetive 20 minutes in.

That's only in the pirate version of the game.

That's interesting, then why did I experience exactly these issues in the steam version of the game?

Originally posted by Zak-Del:

Originally posted by Daniel:

Massive pacing issues, gameplay mechanics that you use once that then become useless until the developer litteraly puts a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sign post up saying "Use ____ Here!", leaving you zero choice of what to actually do.

The gameplay sucks and the level design gets reptetetive 20 minutes in.

Couldnt disagree more.

Elaborate?

[Jeaton]

Originally posted by Daniel:

Originally posted by Zak-Del:

Couldnt disagree more.

Elaborate?

To elaborate in why I can agree with Zak-Del, every single level introduces something brand new and has numerous ways to approach the single level. There will purposely be a variety of items and routes scattered in a level usually leaving multiple options and ways you can deal with enemies and the level. Platforming and level design greatly changes throughout the entirety of the game I can't disagree more on the game being repetitive. Your thoughts on the gameplay being bad is entirely subjective, everyone has their genre (albeit you bought this game even though it's clearly not your kind of game). The one-off mechanics aren't necessarily a bad thing with how short the game is, it leaves room for revisiting certain levels to experiment and test those things out.

One thing I can agree on is there is some pacing issues, not massive pacing issues as you overexaggerate. But there's some inconsistent downtime in some areas and some levels feel like they weren't long enough or overstayed their welcome, but it's comforted by great bullet-time action gameplay.

[clay gamer]

Originally posted by big fat wiener:

Originally posted by Daniel:

Elaborate?

To elaborate in why I can agree with Zak-Del, every single level introduces something brand new and has numerous ways to approach the single level. There will purposely be a variety of items and routes scattered in a level usually leaving multiple options and ways you can deal with enemies and the level. Platforming and level design greatly changes throughout the entirety of the game I can't disagree more on the game being repetitive. Your thoughts on the gameplay being bad is entirely subjective, everyone has their genre (albeit you bought this game even though it's clearly not your kind of game). The one-off mechanics aren't necessarily a bad thing with how short the game is, it leaves room for revisiting certain levels to experiment and test those things out.

One thing I can agree on is there is some pacing issues, not massive pacing issues as you overexaggerate. But there's some inconsistent downtime in some areas and some levels feel like they weren't long enough or overstayed their welcome, but it's comforted by great bullet-time action gameplay.

Well, here's why I disagree with you:

"Every single level introduces something new" You mean every Segment? Like from restaraunt to sewers? Because within a "Segment", the levels are close to identical except the part of it where the boss shows up.

There are no "routes scattered in a level", you can take ONE path only, this is just factually wrong on your side.

The variety of items are so simplistic it isn't even funny;
You encounter a heap of 4 enemies all standing on Dynamte
or
You see 2 people standing behind hip-height cover and above them yo ucan shoot a wooden plank to make a ball drop on their head and kill them

It doesn't really leave room for something that you can do, you can't really get creative because it's limited to
A) Shoot the wooden plank and watch the enemy die for the 800th time, the exact same way as before
B) Just shoot the enemy in the head because the cover he is behind doesn't protect him from your bullets.

I have seen a few people mention this and that "you can pick how you approach the situation" which is simply not true.

Platforming and VISUAL level design change, yes.
In close to every level there's just a few random walls at some points that force you to wall-jump a few times, and I get that if they weren't there the levels would be even worse, but honestly, not that much changes in the layout. Sure, there might be some new additions
(Oh look! Now you have to run to the left, push the button, and run back to the right!), but once these get introduced they just put them in every single ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ level and it becomes annoying because it seems highly unnecessary, breaks the pace and is imo just done to extend the game time.

"everyone has their genre (albeit you bought this game even though it's clearly not your kind of game)."

I am not really sure what genre this game falls under, but I liked some games devolver published, so I thought I might as well give it a try, but in the end I got disappointed.


"The one-off mechanics aren't necessarily a bad thing with how short the game is, it leaves room for revisiting certain levels to experiment and test those things out."

Can you give an example of this? I honestly don't feel like touching it again but I can't really think of any levels I wanted to go back to and try something again beside of maybe some of the first few ones, as those were actually pretty fun since they weren't repetetive to me at that point.

[Jeaton]

Originally posted by Daniel:

Originally posted by big fat wiener:

To elaborate in why I can agree with Zak-Del, every single level introduces something brand new and has numerous ways to approach the single level. There will purposely be a variety of items and routes scattered in a level usually leaving multiple options and ways you can deal with enemies and the level. Platforming and level design greatly changes throughout the entirety of the game I can't disagree more on the game being repetitive. Your thoughts on the gameplay being bad is entirely subjective, everyone has their genre (albeit you bought this game even though it's clearly not your kind of game). The one-off mechanics aren't necessarily a bad thing with how short the game is, it leaves room for revisiting certain levels to experiment and test those things out.

One thing I can agree on is there is some pacing issues, not massive pacing issues as you overexaggerate. But there's some inconsistent downtime in some areas and some levels feel like they weren't long enough or overstayed their welcome, but it's comforted by great bullet-time action gameplay.

Well, here's why I disagree with you:

"Every single level introduces something new" You mean every Segment? Like from restaraunt to sewers? Because within a "Segment", the levels are close to identical except the part of it where the boss shows up.

There are no "routes scattered in a level", you can take ONE path only, this is just factually wrong on your side.

The variety of items are so simplistic it isn't even funny;
You encounter a heap of 4 enemies all standing on Dynamte
or
You see 2 people standing behind hip-height cover and above them yo ucan shoot a wooden plank to make a ball drop on their head and kill them

It doesn't really leave room for something that you can do, you can't really get creative because it's limited to
A) Shoot the wooden plank and watch the enemy die for the 800th time, the exact same way as before
B) Just shoot the enemy in the head because the cover he is behind doesn't protect him from your bullets.

I have seen a few people mention this and that "you can pick how you approach the situation" which is simply not true.

Platforming and VISUAL level design change, yes.
In close to every level there's just a few random walls at some points that force you to wall-jump a few times, and I get that if they weren't there the levels would be even worse, but honestly, not that much changes in the layout. Sure, there might be some new additions
(Oh look! Now you have to run to the left, push the button, and run back to the right!), but once these get introduced they just put them in every single ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ level and it becomes annoying because it seems highly unnecessary, breaks the pace and is imo just done to extend the game time.

"everyone has their genre (albeit you bought this game even though it's clearly not your kind of game)."

I am not really sure what genre this game falls under, but I liked some games devolver published, so I thought I might as well give it a try, but in the end I got disappointed.


"The one-off mechanics aren't necessarily a bad thing with how short the game is, it leaves room for revisiting certain levels to experiment and test those things out."

Can you give an example of this? I honestly don't feel like touching it again but I can't really think of any levels I wanted to go back to and try something again beside of maybe some of the first few ones, as those were actually pretty fun since they weren't repetetive to me at that point.

I'm not sure that the early levels add new mechanics as the game goes on persay (moreso it introduces things you may or may not have known you could do prior), but in the later game there's basically a brand new mechanic or feature introduced with every level (sometimes it's a one-off sometimes it's feature in future levels.

Calling every level in a segment identical is heavily undermining the design of the levels, the most consistency between levels will be the sidescrolling, mechanics, and enemies but most definitely not the design.

For the varieties in dealing with challenges, it really is as you make it. For example, you've described what's given at face value and what's expected of you to do. What I was able to do in some levels was take a pan from a part in the game it wanted you to use it, and carry it throughout the entire level, utilizing it to kill enemies, or one level where I resorted to only using kicks (when possible). This is barely scratching the surface as well, I notice with every swarm of enemies there will always be multiple approaches.

The puzzles of the game (what you refer to as downtime) I feel is a necessity towards the pace of the level, sure some drag a bit long but if you're constantly being given action action and action, the parts that were supposed to be fun feel very bland and uninteresting.

I could go back and re-experience every level, I liked them all (maybe with the exception of that one without enemies in Pedro's World). The main ones that stand out are the ones at the end of every segment, those levels introduce game-changing one-off mechanics and they're always very fresh and exciting.

For you purchasing this game because of Devolver publishing, I apologize that you weren't able to enjoy it. A little side question, have you ever played the Hotline Miami games?

[BearPajamaGod!]

Originally posted by Nagas:

Originally posted by -Fish-:

The gameplay itself is absolutly wonderful but the framerate issue is causing weird stutter issues and lagging mouse movement on powerful machines with g-sync monitors.

This right here. It does not feel smooth at all. As someone who was really looking forward to this I'm really disappointed.

Exactly this.

Originally posted by MikeThePlayr:

Originally posted by Daniel:

Massive pacing issues, gameplay mechanics that you use once that then become useless until the developer litteraly puts a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sign post up saying "Use ____ Here!", leaving you zero choice of what to actually do.

The gameplay sucks and the level design gets reptetetive 20 minutes in.

That's only in the pirate version of the game.

This is absolutely 100% ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ it happens in every version hell even the dev stream that was showing on Steam when you click the store page had it earlier. But I guess the dev just pirated their game also?

[clay gamer]

Originally posted by big fat wiener:

Originally posted by Daniel:

Well, here's why I disagree with you:

"Every single level introduces something new" You mean every Segment? Like from restaraunt to sewers? Because within a "Segment", the levels are close to identical except the part of it where the boss shows up.

There are no "routes scattered in a level", you can take ONE path only, this is just factually wrong on your side.

The variety of items are so simplistic it isn't even funny;
You encounter a heap of 4 enemies all standing on Dynamte
or
You see 2 people standing behind hip-height cover and above them yo ucan shoot a wooden plank to make a ball drop on their head and kill them

It doesn't really leave room for something that you can do, you can't really get creative because it's limited to
A) Shoot the wooden plank and watch the enemy die for the 800th time, the exact same way as before
B) Just shoot the enemy in the head because the cover he is behind doesn't protect him from your bullets.

I have seen a few people mention this and that "you can pick how you approach the situation" which is simply not true.

Platforming and VISUAL level design change, yes.
In close to every level there's just a few random walls at some points that force you to wall-jump a few times, and I get that if they weren't there the levels would be even worse, but honestly, not that much changes in the layout. Sure, there might be some new additions
(Oh look! Now you have to run to the left, push the button, and run back to the right!), but once these get introduced they just put them in every single ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ level and it becomes annoying because it seems highly unnecessary, breaks the pace and is imo just done to extend the game time.

"everyone has their genre (albeit you bought this game even though it's clearly not your kind of game)."

I am not really sure what genre this game falls under, but I liked some games devolver published, so I thought I might as well give it a try, but in the end I got disappointed.


"The one-off mechanics aren't necessarily a bad thing with how short the game is, it leaves room for revisiting certain levels to experiment and test those things out."

Can you give an example of this? I honestly don't feel like touching it again but I can't really think of any levels I wanted to go back to and try something again beside of maybe some of the first few ones, as those were actually pretty fun since they weren't repetetive to me at that point.

I'm not sure that the early levels add new mechanics as the game goes on persay (moreso it introduces things you may or may not have known you could do prior), but in the later game there's basically a brand new mechanic or feature introduced with every level (sometimes it's a one-off sometimes it's feature in future levels.

Calling every level in a segment identical is heavily undermining the design of the levels, the most consistency between levels will be the sidescrolling, mechanics, and enemies but most definitely not the design.

For the varieties in dealing with challenges, it really is as you make it. For example, you've described what's given at face value and what's expected of you to do. What I was able to do in some levels was take a pan from a part in the game it wanted you to use it, and carry it throughout the entire level, utilizing it to kill enemies, or one level where I resorted to only using kicks (when possible). This is barely scratching the surface as well, I notice with every swarm of enemies there will always be multiple approaches.

The puzzles of the game (what you refer to as downtime) I feel is a necessity towards the pace of the level, sure some drag a bit long but if you're constantly being given action action and action, the parts that were supposed to be fun feel very bland and uninteresting.

I could go back and re-experience every level, I liked them all (maybe with the exception of that one without enemies in Pedro's World). The main ones that stand out are the ones at the end of every segment, those levels introduce game-changing one-off mechanics and they're always very fresh and exciting.

For you purchasing this game because of Devolver publishing, I apologize that you weren't able to enjoy it. A little side question, have you ever played the Hotline Miami games?

Honestly this isn't really something I can discuss like that

In this argument you have a different opinion than I do, and I doubt either of us will be able to convince the other one otherwise, and that's fine to be honest. You are the only person I could actually argue this with instead of just getting a "no ur wrong stop h8", and I thank you for that.

And yes I have played HM1+HM2

[Jeaton]

Originally posted by Daniel:

Originally posted by big fat wiener:

I'm not sure that the early levels add new mechanics as the game goes on persay (moreso it introduces things you may or may not have known you could do prior), but in the later game there's basically a brand new mechanic or feature introduced with every level (sometimes it's a one-off sometimes it's feature in future levels.

Calling every level in a segment identical is heavily undermining the design of the levels, the most consistency between levels will be the sidescrolling, mechanics, and enemies but most definitely not the design.

For the varieties in dealing with challenges, it really is as you make it. For example, you've described what's given at face value and what's expected of you to do. What I was able to do in some levels was take a pan from a part in the game it wanted you to use it, and carry it throughout the entire level, utilizing it to kill enemies, or one level where I resorted to only using kicks (when possible). This is barely scratching the surface as well, I notice with every swarm of enemies there will always be multiple approaches.

The puzzles of the game (what you refer to as downtime) I feel is a necessity towards the pace of the level, sure some drag a bit long but if you're constantly being given action action and action, the parts that were supposed to be fun feel very bland and uninteresting.

I could go back and re-experience every level, I liked them all (maybe with the exception of that one without enemies in Pedro's World). The main ones that stand out are the ones at the end of every segment, those levels introduce game-changing one-off mechanics and they're always very fresh and exciting.

For you purchasing this game because of Devolver publishing, I apologize that you weren't able to enjoy it. A little side question, have you ever played the Hotline Miami games?

Honestly this isn't really something I can discuss like that

In this argument you have a different opinion than I do, and I doubt either of us will be able to convince the other one otherwise, and that's fine to be honest. You are the only person I could actually argue this with instead of just getting a "no ur wrong stop h8", and I thank you for that.

And yes I have played HM1+HM2

I can accept that verdict, thanks as well.

What was your main takeaway from those two games, if you enjoyed them and were looking for a similar experience with MFP I could recommend something to make up for your disappointment.