Rachel is a b*tch?

[NanoNewton]

*Spoiler alert*

Look at this way, all the things that we've done for Rachel in the game amounts to nothing towards the end. I just completed episode 3 and realised how inconclusive the ending was.
How did she end up with Frank? If Chloe and Rachel had something 'more than friends' going on between them, then what went wrong? Why didn't they ever leave Arcadia bay? If you have completed the game, then it makes sense in what Eliott's warning that Rachel was a manipulative woman who just wanted things her way, and it seems to be that way as well. She broke her promise of leaving AB, probably got together with frank, and left Chloe. WTF.

For someone who has been playing this from day 1, it bothers me greatly. Share what you think about it. I need a coffee.

[Haggarman]

So what if Rachel is going to go away one way or another? At least enjoy the time you have together. Nothing is forever (except world-ending extinction when the stars explode).

[NanoNewton]

The game world is temporary though, if not , then i need a before the storm 2 explaining what happens next.

Originally posted by Haggarman:

So what if Rachel is going to go away one way or another? At least enjoy the time you have together. Nothing is forever (except world-ending extinction when the stars explode).

[Davio]

*Spoiler alert* of Lis and BtS

Speaking from my 3rd persons view of the game: I see that this game was created to show who Rachel Amber really was. Because in the original: LiS the game is mostly about her, we go through trying to find her and end up finding her killed. We know nothing of her, except that she is dead and what Max finds of her, from memories left of her.

(I believe that) We all wanted this prequel to the answering questions to the question you have laid. But these questions only occurred (for me) because of the prequel. As for me, until the prequel I did have those question, didn’t actually care about Rachel Amber. I did care about her because I did know her, even knowing from what Max had found of what was left of her. Still didn’t. But now I due, after playing the prequel. And it hurts me to see what she was become or what choices she made after, in the LiS.

If she has not become what she was in LiS or has not made the choices she made in LiS, what beauty would there have been. As you said “she [would not be] a b*tch”. I my opinion, the decisions the choices that she made are unforgivable, what a wholesome she would have been, if she was loyal?

I also came from a playthrough where the sense of Eliott's warning that Rachel, where overlooked. Now I see what the developers have been saying to us all along. Also, you opened up my eyes to the Eliott's role in this game. He all along knew that Rachel is playing people, as you said manipulated for her own good. Eliot predicted all along of what was going to happen, and happened. Also, I think to Rachels future character, in the LiS, her birth mom made some significance. “My mom was a F-up, I am the same thing” Also, her dad was trying to protect her, but she went over the fence.

I think the D9, dev of BtS, made Rachel Amber too likeable, unintentionally or intentionally, not what Dontnod, dev of LiS, had in mind. LiS presented Rachel Amber in my eyes as a bad, unloyal human being. And BtS presented her as the complete opposite, depending on the actions that are choices by the players. Not so bad. And the same person is different in both games, what does not line up, or the character turns a complete 180.

My cup of tea at your thoughts, hope you understood my writing!

[Jamboolani]

Rachel made mistakes indeed, but Eliot's warnings weren't ''warning'' because 1)He didn't know anything about Rachel and he only threw words to her because of his jealousy 2)Rachel may be manipulative YET she is not dangerous or abusive towards Chloe as he presented.

Originally posted by cucuonthebeat:

We only know of Rachel in Season 1 is through other people and in BtS all you know of her is through Chloe's eyes. You had no insight into what Rachel was thinking. Only what was she doing and saying. To judge her character completely, we should gotten exact sources in S1 either, but what we got are; Max's inner monologues, letters,people's rumours,some implications from Chloe about her character... and that's just all. Rachel made mistakes and she wasn't flawless human being, yet, again; we only heard about her through the people as I told you. That's what people are confusing here.

But that's the only thing we know, her relationship with Frank and Jefferson were close to each other (considering Jefferson knew about her relationship with Frank, and said it finished before it even started). Once she was 18, she hooked up with Frank and she was having issues with drugs too (even had a police record) We know that she ditched Frank since he became violent because of drugs; and she left him that easy -this is kinda where we understand that she wasn't fully in love with him. She moved onto Jefferson; this man had everything she wanted. A famous photographer, she wanted to be a model. Rachel was in love with this idea so followed her own wishes yet she made the biggest mistake in her life.

Despite Rachel's mistakes, I still don't buy ''she used Chloe for her own wishes'' too. Yes, we know that Chloe's romantic feelings for Rachel grew over 3 years. But we also know that they were never in a relationship and their romantic relationship couldn't stay straight. Yet, their friendship worked over 3 years and Rachel never left her. Rachel was also aware of Chloe's feelings for her but she didn't want to hurt her and hid her relationship. Even she tried to confess her relationship with Jefferson with letter -but you saw how she freaked out from it because she knew Chloe's feelings towards her and she knew how would she react. Even Frank admitted that Rachel cared about Chloe a lot.

[SneakyJoe.RU 🌐 #StopWar]

*Rant+spoilers*
Eliott's kinda a creep, but he has a point. Rachel is a manipulative woman, who does everything for her own entertainment or success. If she'll have to stab you to get what she wants RIGHT NOW, she'll do it. She's both impulsive, which leads her and Chloe to multiple troubles, and sneaky at the same time, which causes troubles for ambitious but somewhat above-mediocre people like Victoria.
Rachel knows how people will react. She's good at lying and telling if another person lies. And she gets all the information she needs without actually disclosing too much about herself. If she wants you to do or say something, you'll really think it was your own idea.
Everyone she interacts with are blinded by how cool she is, and nobody seems to notice f-d up things she do sometimes...

I've faced a few girls like her IRL. I wish something bad to happen with them to chill them the f down so they stop walking over other people's heads. But we all have a happy ending since she dies in the dark room, so I'm glad for her surrounding that they got rid of her.

And too bad that Eliott lost his ♥♥♥♥ and started abusing Chloe in Embers' house.
I really feel sorry for that dude. He wants the best for the girl and she keeps harming herself and not recognize his attempts... This game has too much stuff related to my IRL experience there...

Nontheless, I feel bad for the girls having such deep empathy towards each other. No lesbo.

[Meri]

Originally posted by SneakyJoe.RU:

*Rant+spoilers*
Eliott's kinda a creep, but he has a point. Rachel is a manipulative woman, who does everything for her own entertainment or success. If she'll have to stab you to get what she wants RIGHT NOW, she'll do it. She's both impulsive, which leads her and Chloe to multiple troubles, and sneaky at the same time, which causes troubles for ambitious but somewhat above-mediocre people like Victoria.
Rachel knows how people will react. She's good at lying and telling if another person lies. And she gets all the information she needs without actually disclosing too much about herself. If she wants you to do or say something, you'll really think it was your own idea.
Everyone she interacts with are blinded by how cool she is, and nobody seems to notice f-d up things she do sometimes...

I've faced a few girls like her IRL. I wish something bad to happen with them to chill them the f down so they stop walking over other people's heads. But we all have a happy ending since she dies in the dark room, so I'm glad for her surrounding that they got rid of her.

And too bad that Eliott lost his ♥♥♥♥ and started abusing Chloe in Embers' house.
I really feel sorry for that dude. He wants the best for the girl and she keeps harming herself and not recognize his attempts... This game has too much stuff related to my IRL experience there...

Nontheless, I feel bad for the girls having such deep empathy towards each other. No lesbo.

You sound very bitter, did you have bad experience with rejection ?

Eliot does not want the best for the girl, he wants the best for himself.

He is an obsessed stalker who thinks that Chloe owes him a relationship just because he was nice to her and there for her in a time where she was broken. In this case he is the one who acts manipulative and abuses Chloe when she is most vulnerable to establish a closer relationship.

He is the definition of the "nice guy syndrome" and if you can relate to him or have similiar views on women and relationships then you probably should feel bad for yourself rather then "the girls who are having deep empathy towards each other.", because that is a really dangerous and unhealthy mental condition which only leads to desperation and passive aggressiveness towards women.

[Firewalk]

Originally posted by zerja:

Originally posted by SneakyJoe.RU:

*Rant+spoilers*
Eliott's kinda a creep, but he has a point. Rachel is a manipulative woman, who does everything for her own entertainment or success. If she'll have to stab you to get what she wants RIGHT NOW, she'll do it. She's both impulsive, which leads her and Chloe to multiple troubles, and sneaky at the same time, which causes troubles for ambitious but somewhat above-mediocre people like Victoria.
Rachel knows how people will react. She's good at lying and telling if another person lies. And she gets all the information she needs without actually disclosing too much about herself. If she wants you to do or say something, you'll really think it was your own idea.
Everyone she interacts with are blinded by how cool she is, and nobody seems to notice f-d up things she do sometimes...

I've faced a few girls like her IRL. I wish something bad to happen with them to chill them the f down so they stop walking over other people's heads. But we all have a happy ending since she dies in the dark room, so I'm glad for her surrounding that they got rid of her.

And too bad that Eliott lost his ♥♥♥♥ and started abusing Chloe in Embers' house.
I really feel sorry for that dude. He wants the best for the girl and she keeps harming herself and not recognize his attempts... This game has too much stuff related to my IRL experience there...

Nontheless, I feel bad for the girls having such deep empathy towards each other. No lesbo.

You sound very bitter, did you have bad experience with rejection ?

Eliot does not want the best for the girl, he wants the best for himself.

He is an obsessed stalker who thinks that Chloe owes him a relationship just because he was nice to her and there for her in a time where she was broken. In this case he is the one who acts manipulative and abuses Chloe when she is most vulnerable to establish a closer relationship.

He is the definition of the "nice guy syndrome" and if you can relate to him or have similiar views on women and relationships then you probably should feel bad for yourself rather then "the girls who are having deep empathy towards each other.", because that is a really dangerous and unhealthy mental condition which only leads to desperation and passive aggressiveness towards women.

This. Elliot wouldn't get the hint. Unlike Warren in LIS, where Max isn't opposed to being close with him if the player chooses, note how in BTS you can't even say yes to Elliot's very first request (going to the play).

Chloe even makes it clear on at least one occasion that she is well aware of his affection but clearly does not reciprocate it and only hangs out with him if she feels like it, which is hardly ever from the looks of it.

I'm also convinced they intentionally made him about as bland as a box of stale Cheerios.

[SneakyJoe.RU 🌐 #StopWar]

Originally posted by zerja:

You sound very bitter, did you have bad experience with rejection ?

Eliot does not want the best for the girl, he wants the best for himself.

He is an obsessed stalker who thinks that Chloe owes him a relationship just because he was nice to her and there for her in a time where she was broken. In this case he is the one who acts manipulative and abuses Chloe when she is most vulnerable to establish a closer relationship.

He is the definition of the "nice guy syndrome" and if you can relate to him or have similiar views on women and relationships then you probably should feel bad for yourself rather then "the girls who are having deep empathy towards each other.", because that is a really dangerous and unhealthy mental condition which only leads to desperation and passive aggressiveness towards women.

Bitter? Indeed. Sure I was rejected a lot - that's how being a male works - but not by Rachel type. They're cool only to look at, but their personality isn't that great so I never tried to go for them. That's the idea of the thread, isn't it? That they're not that cool as presented here.
*added:* Even though people seem to hate toxic Vik (same do I), I'd rather go for her, because she seems to be more open-minded and honest about her actions.

I believe he developed an empathy for her himself when was genuinely trying to help. You know how it works, if you really want to help someone even without feeling something towards, you suddenly can develop the feel for them. And, sure, he was stalking her at the end, but he didn't seem to do this before he saw something bad was happening.
He seems to be a nice guy, but I believe he also had this hard life lesson and wrong target selected. He developed feelings. He didn't back off when he understood it's not working out. He'll find someone like that girl who tried to hit on Nathan and will be happy with her.

Why should I feel bad for myself lol? I didn't ever stalk someone or tried to stop someone's suicidal actions against their will. If a person wants kill themselves to fullfill a dream of another person they just met, I'll just warn them they're doing crap at the best and leave them be. Also I'll have a note to stay away because they bring troubles.

Speaking of nice guys syndrome, 85% of people hid the truth from their "bff and lover", how they say it. Say "nice" again. Nice guys are nice liers too?

*added:* Anyways, my initial idea was - Rachel's manipulative btch, and the dude had a point. I didn't say "the dude is right for stalking" or "he pushed her like an alpha male".

[NanoNewton]

Totally agree with you. Also to think that whatever choices we’ve made in the game to keep them together will regardless lead to Rachel ending up with Frank fũcking bowers for some random reason.I loved he game, not the personality of the woman we were after.

Originally posted by SneakyJoe.RU:

*Rant+spoilers*
Eliott's kinda a creep, but he has a point. Rachel is a manipulative woman, who does everything for her own entertainment or success. If she'll have to stab you to get what she wants RIGHT NOW, she'll do it. She's both impulsive, which leads her and Chloe to multiple troubles, and sneaky at the same time, which causes troubles for ambitious but somewhat above-mediocre people like Victoria.
Rachel knows how people will react. She's good at lying and telling if another person lies. And she gets all the information she needs without actually disclosing too much about herself. If she wants you to do or say something, you'll really think it was your own idea.
Everyone she interacts with are blinded by how cool she is, and nobody seems to notice f-d up things she do sometimes...

I've faced a few girls like her IRL. I wish something bad to happen with them to chill them the f down so they stop walking over other people's heads. But we all have a happy ending since she dies in the dark room, so I'm glad for her surrounding that they got rid of her.

And too bad that Eliott lost his ♥♥♥♥ and started abusing Chloe in Embers' house.
I really feel sorry for that dude. He wants the best for the girl and she keeps harming herself and not recognize his attempts... This game has too much stuff related to my IRL experience there...

Nontheless, I feel bad for the girls having such deep empathy towards each other. No lesbo.

[Nexils]

Yea, I must also say that I don't like Rachel as a character.
She isn't necessarily a bad person, she's just awfully manipulative and gets away with everything almost the same way Nathan did (all thanks to their reputations).

She also seems to be awfully concerned about her dad cheating while she'll eventually go after Frank anyway. But I suppose a lot of things happened etc... I don't even remember what Chloe thought about it except that Frank was a possible suspect if it came to Rachel's disappearance.

[LoneWolf]

Y'all know how the they say... "Life is Strange".

[Jamboolani]

Originally posted by SneakyJoe.RU:

Bitter? Indeed. Sure I was rejected a lot. [...]
I've faced a few girls like her IRL. I wish something bad to happen with them to chill them the f down so they stop walking over other people's heads. **** But we all have a happy ending since she dies in the dark room, so I'm glad for her surrounding that they got rid of her.***
[...]
And too bad that Eliott lost his♥♥♥♥♥♥and started abusing Chloe in Embers' house.
I really feel sorry for that dude. ***He wants the best for the girl*** and she keeps harming herself and not recognize his attempts.

[..]

Hm. Cold-blooded statements, experienced rejections in real life and such... Of course you would feel bad for Eliot while you are in this mentality.

Talking about the game, Eliot is represented as obsessed guy who doesn't want to get the hint/couldn't get over rejection; wants to have Chloe to himself and turn her against Rachel Amber because of jealousy. He NEVER cared about Chloe, he only cared about himself since she wants the girl all for himself. Not because he wanted her sake; if he wanted her sake he wouldn't act in this way, let's put this in mind.

Eliot is ignorant than not, and he literally refused the hear true things either since he was thinking he is the one who is right. He never saw the real thing,only threw words because of his jealousy and he never wanted to listen either. Lots of the claims he makes against Rachel are totally flawed. And he put himself to despicable place even more.

I'll quote this post to explain further:

Originally posted by themysterioustraveller008:

The claims he makes against Rachel are utterly laughable when you stop and think about them.

Chloe got a black eye the night she hung out with Rachel: Chloe had her skirmish with the louts before Rachel came along. Not only that, Rachel got involved out of genuine concern for Chloe. Just think of what might have happened if she wasn't there to provide the distraction Chloe uses to get away. A black eye would have been the least of what she suffered. So not only is Elliot wrong about what happened, he demonizes Rachel when in fact she was the angel who came swooping to Chloe's rescue. He could be thanking Rachel, not making up reasons to try and force Chloe not to be friends with her.

Chloe got expelled from Blackwell because of Rachel who escaped punishment: Rachel has a squeaky clean record whereas Chloe has racked up a list of offenses longer than my arm. No kidding Chloe suffered a far more dire punishment for what happened. And Rachel didn't get away with skipping class. She lost her position as the principal's assistant and would even have been forced to drop the play if Chloe didn't take the fall for her, something Chloe did purely of her own choice. Oh and Rachel also tried to shield CHLOE when she realized how serious the situation was. Anyway, the only reason Chloe gets expelled is because Ray Wells wanted to save money by taking away her scholarship. Come on, the reasons he gives for coming down so hard on Chloe are complete and utter garbage. It's her fault that Victoria tried to cheat by copying her homework? She deserves to be punished for what Drew did to Nathan while Drew gets away with it because he's on the football team? By the end of that scene, it's safe to say that I'd totally lost respect for Wells. He was out to get her and would have done so one way or another.

Rachel made Chloe take part in a play she didn't want to be in: Now he's just clutching at straws. Rachel asked Chloe to be a substitute Ariel because the actress playing that character couldn't make it and Chloe said yes. It was her choice and she chose to take part in a harmless play as a favor to her dear friend. End of story. If Chloe hadn't agreed, the play would have been ruined for everyone who put so much effort into rehearsing and sewing costumes for that one night. So if anything, Elliot should think Chloe was a hero for doing that. And guess what? Even though Chloe was a reluctant spirit at first, she ended up being over the moon to have been involved! That moment she shared on stage with Rachel is probably one of her most treasured memories and Elliot wants to tarnish that magic out of pure jealousy because she was smiling so sweetly at Rachel instead of him.

Chloe has started hanging out with criminals now that she's friends with Rachel: Chloe has been going to Frank for pot long before Rachel entered her life. And if Elliot doesn't know that, I guess he doesn't know Chloe half as well as he thinks he does. Which is the whole problem. He doesn't give a damn about Chloe the actual person who has her own thoughts and feelings. He's purely invested in the Chloe he's built up as his rebellious girlfriend inside his own imagination. And when she refuses to play along with the script he's written, guess what? He turns nasty. The final confrontation Chloe has with Elliot in the office? He's not concerned for her! He's enraged! Spitting with fury because his fantasy about him being the only person she can trust is being derailed by reality! He'll do anything to make her conform to her role in his imaginary world, not matter how loudly he has to scream or what he has to break! Just like...oh I don't know...an abusive partner!

Chloe broke into someone's house because of Rachel: Rachel asked Chloe to only find her mom (she didn't say steal money or else, and it was the surprise that Chloe encountered later since Rachel wasn't know her father was trying to get rid of her mom) and provided her with a key to the front door. Elliot's the person who went in there without permission. If he was worried she might get in trouble, he'd insist that they both leave as soon as possible. Instead he takes advantage of the fact that the Ambers won't be coming home anytime soon, cornering Chloe in a room and locking the door so she can't escape. Really? This is the behavior of someone who's worried about her?

So no, he's not genuinely concerned or acting on a sense of duty. He wants to own Chloe and not let anyone else play with her as though she's some sort of toy that exists only for him. The game tells you so in every way bar spelling it out in capital letters. I'm not sure why people are still trying to argue that his behavior towards Chloe is in any way justified when the ending where you succeed in calling the police results in him being booted out of Blackwell and you're clearly not supposed to feel bad for this stalker.

Even if Rachel is a bad influence and Chloe would be better off severing with her, guess what? It's none of his business. Her life is hers and she's free to associate with whoever she wants. He's not her brother or her boyfriend, just some guy who exists at the periphery of her life because she's too nice to tell him that they've grown into different people now. If he was truly concerned that she's in danger, he could go talk to her mother or the authorities. You know, like a right-minded person would. Not follow her, lock her in a room, call her a ♥♥♥♥♥, tell her that nobody gives a damn about her except him, push her against a desk and smash things around her.

---

So.. He was trying to make Rachel look like 100% devil because of his jealousy. He doesn't care about her but he thinks he is the only one who's entitled to Chloe's affection and wanting to have her all for himself. Notice the detail, he also gaslights Chloe, insults her performance on stage which was brilliant and that finally indicates that he doesn't think Chloe is artistic or talented or even intelligent; yet he said she made a fool out of herself.
Points he brought up were mostly flawed as you can see from above; but only Chloe's risking her life was true/valid -and it's not like he said it because he was caring about Chloe's safety either; he was using his concern for Chloe's safety to mask his jealousy- Chloe was taking risks/put herself to danger yeah but it wasn't the first time she was doing it,this time she was doing that for the girl she loved and at the end of the day it was her choice.

Rachel also made mistakes,true, but don't confuse your Rachel hate with some harasser's words and don't defend the guy who harassed the main protagnoist. Any other decent character who would be non-ignorant from situation made this warning in ''right way'' then that warning could be valid, at least.

[Chugster]

I do think people give way too much credit to Rachel as a manipulator...she is only 15, there is no way she could have developed all these skills that alot of you ascribe to her.

This whole chameleon thing is BS, she was just a teenager trying to fit in, only she was a little better at it than most 15 year olds.

Many of you seem to forget just how dumb and awkward most of us were as teenagers.

[LoneWolf]

Originally posted by Chugster:

I do think people give way too much credit to Rachel as a manipulator...she is only 15, there is no way she could have developed all these skills that alot of you ascribe to her.

This whole chameleon thing is BS, she was just a teenager trying to fit in, only she was a little better at it than most 15 year olds.

Many of you seem to forget just how dumb and awkward most of us were as teenagers.

Totally agree with you. She just has a strong and charming personality, added to de love of Chloe for her make her do stupid things. I love Rachel despite some hate of the people and i love the couple that she makes with Chloe so cute and inocent

[SneakyJoe.RU 🌐 #StopWar]

> drugs, robbery, alcohol, mass destruction
< cute innocent

Come on. Are you serious?