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The soul of LiS? Rachel? She was just a McGuffin in the original, her only purpose was to drive one thread of the plot forward. Her role in the BtS was obviously larger, but it was still very much Chloe's story.
One could easily argue that Chloe was Rachel's longest and most consistent relationship - whether you think they were friends or lovers - but that isn't much of a point in her favour when she seems to be dead set on leaving Arcadia Bay, even if that means leaving Chloe on her own.
And consider her list of 'questionable things' that she keeps from Chloe:
- Banging Frank
- Probably a user of harder drugs
- Dealing drugs
- Secret photoshoots with Jefferson
- Banging Jefferson
- Trying to skip town with anyone with the means
'Questionable' seems to be a ridiculously light term for what Rachel was getting up to. Aside from the secret photoshoots pretty much any one of these would be a dealbreaker in my mind, though Chloe might be fine with the dealing.
So considering that we know of two people aside from Chloe with whom Rachel was trying to escape Arcadia, and the fact that one of them was a random trucker who just happened to be passing back through as Max was asking around, how are you so confident that the person she would have left with in the end was Chloe? It seems she would have left with practically anyone and not looked back.
Eh, YMMV. I saw this more as Rachel being over dramatic and enthusiastic about a new and interesting relationship, I mean really, how in love do you think two 16 year olds were after two days? And you got the same impression of Chloe in this scene? She came across as more confused to me.
Whatever was going on at that point had obviously cooled of drastically by the time of Rachel's death. However you interpret the letter Rachel threw out in the junkyard it is obvious that Rachel is used to informing Chloe of her 'hook-ups' and doesn't expect Chloe to get jealous over them. And no, I don't see Chloe as being able to have an open relationship as some people want to excuse Rachel in this letter.
Prior to BtS, there was no real evidence of Rachel returning Chloe's affections and plenty of evidence that she didn't share these feelings, hell until Max and Chloe find her body the most Chloe herself admits to is a crush (and even then she's defensive and immediately says that Max would have the same feelings if she had met Rachel). So, I think it's fairly safe to say that even if you're correct on your read of Rachel in BtS it was a temporary infatuation at best.
The most I could believe about Chloe and Rachel's relationship in the lead up to her death is decent friends, where Rachel had by and large outgrown Chloe given the amount of things she was doing behind her back, but Chloe stuck around as Rachel was her only real companion even if Rachel didn't return her loyalty and Rachel didn't have the heart to fully cut ties.
In that point I see Rachel differently, she doesn't eem so superficial anymore, and has intense moments in the story. I felt very sad at the end of BTS, knowing what would happen in the future.
I have to disagree, I actually felt that it became more Rachel's story in the end, or perhaps a story that Chloe and Rachel shared together. I didn’t particularly find much development for Chloe's backstory bar showing what we already partly knew about her from the first game along with a couple of other bits and pieces. Sure, we see it in context, but Rachel's side is completely new besides her popular personality and the reveal that the two were involved.
At any rate, it seems people strongly dislike Rachel as much as some people strongly disliked Chloe in the first game; something about blaming everyone else for her issues but herself basically till the end, I believe? I feel this is virtually the same but on a different level personality wise, wont change someone’s mindset on the subject even if you try your hardest, so there is no point in debating.
As to Rachel turning Chloe gay, I must admit, I openly laughed at that.
Ive already posted my views on the pair in some threads beforehand so I’m not gonna go into too much detail, but I honestly like Rachel as a character; she is very interesting and has a compelling personality, which is why I think some aspects of her will put people off, but perhaps that is what the writers wanted? It would be very boring if every character was so black and white in their personality. I dislike Max for this reason, I find her very one sided and therefor don’t find her that engaging but I very rarely spew that around and create threads on it.
No teenager ever had done something wrong in his/her life. We all can see the month of planing and the ill will behind this deed. Rachel just hates nature.
Do you know what teenager are called that are always the voice of reason and would always stand up for their errors? Bully-Victims.
Nah, she just points out, that Chloe is not happy as it is. This is something that should be obvious to Chloe herself. Chloe is the one who was calling the shot.
"Daddy I am so happy that you lied to my about my real mother and would keep lying to me, if I didn't find out by chance. And though I am not a kid anymore and understand the circumstances you still prohibit me meeting with her, even supervised. I am grateful that you hired a thug to get my mother addicted again. Your morals are a shining beacon for me and when I am an adult I want to follow your example.
She gets this criticism quite a lot, I don't agree ths is true tbh. Yes, she is giving tasks to Chloe, partly cause it is nature of the game to solve tasks of NPC. But if you think about it, some of those tasks are not for her own sake, but for Chloes sake to grow as a person. Best example is her forcing Chloe to perform. It is Chloe that has problems with publicity and socialisation. In the night after the performance it is Chloe that feels the benefit of the after-show high. It is a memory that Chloe won't forget.
Homophobe much? Although I kinda give you this. It's valid. Though did Rachel "trick" Chloe into lesbianism or was it the other way around?
Eigher way every hot woman on the world should know by now, that the perfect partner for them would be me. Every other choice, if male of femal doesn't matter, just is a mistake and makes her missing out on perfection. So if they wanted to fall for each other, at least both of them should have joined me in threesomes whenever I wanted. Unforgivable!
Chloe also wanted to leave Arcadia Bay before ever meeting Rachel. Kinda hard to do that without ditching her mom.
This entire list of complaints reads like it was written 50 years ago. "Damn kids not being eternally grateful to their parents just for giving them good and shelter as they are legally obligated to do!"
The only close to valid complaint is Rachel seeming self-centered. She does. But that's simply because she's going through a big emotional crisis thanks to her dad's lies. She badly needed a friend to help her through that, much like Chloe needed Max when her dad died, which is why Chloe doesn't mind.
We even see the give-and-take between them start to balance out as the game progresses, like when she and Chloe are talking in her bed after she'd just learned about her real mom, and she was still really upset. After Chloe told her about how she still talks to her dad, Rachel's first reaction was to walk back what she had said earlier about how the beauty of starlight was meaningless if the stars may have died eons ago. Even in the middle of her own pain, she immediately thought of how what she had said *might* have made Chloe feel worse, and made a point to reassure her.
She even ends up attacking a violent criminal who was waving a knife in their faces, just for touching Chloe. You know, like selfish people do all the time.
Rachel was deeply in love with Chloe and saved her from a lot of bad instances. Sure Rachel had a lot going on her mom was a horrible druggie. Her dad a liar. She was so confused. So in pain that you have to admit she just didn't know what to do. Chloe helped her as much as she helped Chloe
It looked more like Chloe changed Rachel's mind on that matter and she acknoledges that.
She pushed him to break his hold on Chloe. She didn't attack him with two-by-four until he made a comment about her mother. Yes, him touching Chloe added to her enrage meter, but it wasn't the only reason for her attack at all.
It says that Rachel is, to some point, a good person, but that's it. Rachel clearly says in the train that the just "wanted some company". She hardly had any intention to become BFFs with Chloe until she learned how amazing Chloe is.
What bad instances, asides from saving Chloe from two a**holes in the mill and breaking Damon's hold on her in junkyard? They were there for each other back then, but Chloe obviously helped more.
And I wouldn't say "deeply in love". Sure, it was "new and intense and awesome" for Rachel and she cared about Chloe to some point back in BtS, but she doesn't look like the kind of person who is into being deeply into someone or something. Also, as Nihilistninja said, she does a lot of questionable (putting it mildly) things behind Chloe's back later. You don't just cool down from deep love to smth like an old friendship, not without hella talk and explanation. And it's clear from Chloe's words that Rachel didn't even hint it (at least, not plainly enough for her to notice).
For the OP question, no I don't hate her. But with a lot of sh*t she does behind Chloe's back, I don't feel for her either.
So we have all that gap which will soon be explored.
As for it not being fair to use anything from LiS to develop an opinion of Rachel's character in the lead up to her death? We do get first hand accounts from Rachel herself in her letters which regarding her relationships with Frank and most likely Jefferson and a decent source in the police report regarding her drug dealing.
I think it's more than a bit silly to write off everything we discover about Rachel in LiS just because none of it is first hand accounts. This just seems to be a reason to avoid dealing with the more controversial parts of Rachel's character for the easily acceptible personality she shows in BtS.
As for if I think Rachel was a evil, manipulative schemer? She's not evil. She is manipulative by any definition of the word shown in both BtS and what we know from LiS. I don't think she's a schemer, she's too shortsighted for that, too prone to seeking short term gains.
My opinion of Rachel is that she a decent mix of her parents, intelligent, self-destructive, passionate and excessive. I think she was absolutely wrapped up in Chloe in BtS, I just think that it was something that cooled of just as quickly, similar to when Jefferson talks about Rachel's interest in Frank dying as quickly as it arose.
By the time of her death how much time was Rachel actually spending with Chloe? She was attending school or skipping it to hang out with Frank. She was partying on her own with the Vortex Club. She was involved in a secret photoshoot with Jefferson and most likely a relationship. She was pushing drugs on campus. All of which was done without Chloe knowing.
Like I said, Rachel had outgrown Chloe by the time of her demise, she just didn't have the heart to let Chloe know, Rachel thought she'd leave Chloe behind without ever having to break off their friendship.
I assume you're talking about your fan game again?
I wish you all the best, but these sort of projects have a miniscule completion rate. Though I hope you surprise me with something awesome, I'm not going to hold my breath.
On the other hand nothing you make will be any more canon than the hundreds of fanfics set in this universe or the completed games like Love is Strange. There's no chance, even if you succeed in making it, that SquareEnix will pick it up and make it canon. Please do your best to prove me wrong here.
So your opinions on Rachel remain no more relevant than anything spouted by any of us here on these forums.