LIS BTS changed my mind about the ending of the first game: Sacrifice Chloe/Arcadia Bay

[ShaddiX (Hertz)⭕⃤]

After playing LIS Before the storm I saw the bonding Chloe had with Rachel. I've never seen such thing in previous games, not even in LIS. It's kinda more realistic than the one with Max. Chloe really and trully loved Rachel. She wasn't only her saviour after her dad's death but something more which cannot be described with words, it could be only seen. I've been rewatching/replaying some parts of LIS and I just realised that it wasn't the right choice to save Chloe and Sacrifice the town. It's not only because of the people who die because of the storm, it's beyond that. Chloe is ruined, broken. She was finally happy with Rachel, she was finally feeling alive and after that Rachel goes missing/dies. Chloe is devastated, she becomes a person who doesn't care about her own life, because she has already given up. She wants to die. Chloe is meant to die, not only because she already dies a couple of times in the game but she herself wants that. All the grafiities and notes : "I want to die" - left in the junkyard, "Please go ahead and kill me" and etc. and most of all: "This is bigger than you". It is bigger than us, Max gets those powers only to have the opportunity to say goodbye with Chloe, to live those five days with her, because no one could ever get a chance like this one. The game shows us that Chloe is meant to die just as Rachel is. No matter what. Most of the players, even I, never thought about how would Chloe live after everyone she ever loved is literally dead - her dad, Rachel, her mom, her friends and etc. She already wanted to die after Rachel went missing..
And after playing BTS I thought that it wasn't fair to sacrifice the town, it isn't fair to Chloe, because all she will get is a life full of pain, agony and loneliness and even Max wouldn't be able to help.Yes, Max is a good friend to Chloe, she helped her a lot, she made Chloe happier but she isn't enough. And It isn't fair to all those hundreds of people who die because of us forcing Chloe to live.
I even thought that some of the reasons why the storm appeared maybe is Rachel. After playing episode 1 of BTS.. but who knows..
The point is that the game is way more complicated, it makes you think about life, death and destiny. The game shows you what happens when you try to change someone's destiny over and over again. And at the end all you see is that you are powerless...

[thirdchance]

While i get your idea, it's important that BTS is written years later than LIS and by a different writer.
So there are inconsistancies, for example in BTS Frank saved first Rachel and later Chloe from Damon and Chloe knows this, but in LIS this relation between Chloe and Frank just doesn't exist, because it hasn't been written than.
What i want to say is, that what is between Max and Chloe shouldn't be watched from the position of BTS, because Sequel or not, the stories have been written by different teams at different times.

[Pvt. Martin]

Thats deep...i always sacraficed Chloe, because i came to that same belief when i first played LiS. But at the sametime since BtS, I started questioning that ending and wondered maybe Chloe deservers a happier life with Max....strange. I love the writing of these games.

[Meri]

The ending of LiS was discussed so heavily and still is which shows how great this game/universe is and I still believe there is no right or wrong decision to make here. Both endings are devastating and I hope that I or anyone else do not have to ever make a decision like this in the real life. I believe that I would save my loved ones, in this case Chloe, but you can never know 100 percent how you would react unless you have experience such situation.

Even if I can see were you are coming from I really cannot see Chloe wanting to die at least not until she finds out what really happend to Rachel and got her revenge when she finally finds out.

The very first sceen of Chloe in the bathroom with Nathan contradicts this theory, she is scared and horrified when Nathan pulls out the gun and she tells him that he will get into way more trouble for this etc. She is trying to escape the situation.

I do not think that a person who made the decision to die would react this way. She would not be afraid of the gun, because you cannot threaten someone who has nothing to lose, at this moment she still hangs on to life and wants to desperately find Rachel.

You can even have an endless discussion about the statement "decision to die", sacrifice itself is against human nature. I do not belive that anyone really wants to die, no matter how bad their situation might be most people will still clinge to life when facing certain death.

Since english is not my mother tongue and this is a very sensitive topic I will leave it at that. I do not know if I can truly deliver and express my opinion on it as I would like to and if by any chance I hurt someone with any of my words: "Please believe me, I am very sorry".

[Kingu]

By your logic everyone that wants to die should just die. That's stupid and imo someone should actually help these kind of people and show them that life doesn't have to be so painful, even after losing someone really close. I myself decided to sacriface town, as this doesn't mean anyone from the town would die. Playing BtS just confirmed my conviction that I did good saving Chloe. Of course if I had an actual choice(not a zero one option) I would try to look for a third way to save everyone.

[ShaddiX (Hertz)⭕⃤]

zerja původně napsal:

The ending of LiS was discussed so heavily and still is which shows how great this game/universe is and I still believe there is no right or wrong decision to make here. Both endings are devastating and I hope that I or anyone else do not have to ever make a decision like this in the real life. I believe that I would save my loved ones, in this case Chloe, but you can never know 100 percent how you would react unless you have experience such situation.

Even if I can see were you are coming from I really cannot see Chloe wanting to die at least not until she finds out what really happend to Rachel and got her revenge when she finally finds out.

The very first sceen of Chloe in the bathroom with Nathan contradicts this theory, she is scared and horrified when Nathan pulls out the gun and she tells him that he will get into way more trouble for this etc. She is trying to escape the situation.

I do not think that a person who made the decision to die would react this way. She would not be afraid of the gun, because you cannot threaten someone who has nothing to lose, at this moment she still hangs on to life and wants to desperately find Rachel.

You can even have an endless discussion about the statement "decision to die", sacrifice itself is against human nature. I do not belive that anyone really wants to die, no matter how bad their situation might be most people will still clinge to life when facing certain death.

Since english is not my mother tongue and this is a very sensitive topic I will leave it at that. I do not know if I can truly deliver and express my opinion on it as I would like to and if by any chance I hurt someone with any of my words: "Please belive me, I am very sorry".

You have a good point, indeed.

[ShaddiX (Hertz)⭕⃤]

King Zero původně napsal:

By your logic everyone that wants to die should just die. That's stupid and imo someone should actually help these kind of people and show them that life doesn't have to be so painful, even after losing someone really close. I myself decided to sacriface town, as this doesn't mean anyone from the town would die. Playing BtS just confirmed my conviction that I did good saving Chloe. Of course if I had an actual choice(not a zero one option) I would try to look for a third way to save everyone.

I'm just saying that if someone loses everyone who ever loved, he will probably want to die or at least he won't care what will happen with his life at all. I mean all Chloe will have is Max who just appears out of nowhere after 5 years..

[Chugster]

I know its probably all the fanfics ive been reading but I really think that Rachel was just filling the Max-shaped void in Chloe's life. Don't get me wrong, its clear that Chloe does/did really love Rachel but you cant miss the huge reconnection when Max comes back and its clear to me that Chloe and Max are soulmates...destined to be together, either as best friends or more.

After all, the only real change that Max's powers make in the end is Chloe being alive.

[Big Moustache]

thirdchance původně napsal:

While i get your idea, it's important that BTS is written years later than LIS and by a different writer.
So there are inconsistancies, for example in BTS Frank saved first Rachel and later Chloe from Damon and Chloe knows this, but in LIS this relation between Chloe and Frank just doesn't exist, because it hasn't been written than.
What i want to say is, that what is between Max and Chloe shouldn't be watched from the position of BTS, because Sequel or not, the stories have been written by different teams at different times.

Pompidou is another plothole. He's a small pup in BTS. In first game Frank rescued him from fight pits.

[Chugster]

Fragoos původně napsal:

thirdchance původně napsal:

While i get your idea, it's important that BTS is written years later than LIS and by a different writer.
So there are inconsistancies, for example in BTS Frank saved first Rachel and later Chloe from Damon and Chloe knows this, but in LIS this relation between Chloe and Frank just doesn't exist, because it hasn't been written than.
What i want to say is, that what is between Max and Chloe shouldn't be watched from the position of BTS, because Sequel or not, the stories have been written by different teams at different times.

Pompidou is another plothole. He's a small pup in BTS. In first game Frank rescued him from fight pits.

Well those fight dog breeders would have puppies around so its not far off...Frank never says when he rescued Pompidou, only where...

[Xialoh]

King Zero původně napsal:

I myself decided to sacriface town, as this doesn't mean anyone from the town would die. Playing BtS just confirmed my conviction that I did good saving Chloe.

Remarkably stupid logic. The choice would be a very easy one if destroying the town just meant devastating a few buildings, with no loss of life otherwise.

Meanwhile during the time you actually play the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ game, it's clear as day that people were being hurt and dying before the worst of the storm even hit. You did play the game right? During episode 5, the diner Chloe's mom is in literally explodes if you don't stop the fire from igniting. Half the place has been destroyed by debris being thrown into it. And the storm only gets worse from there.

The Save Chloe ending isn't some magical happy ending where Chloe survives and everyone else does too, and people have already died before your choice is ever made. You're choosing the life of Chloe weighed against the life of a substantial number of lives in Arcadia Bay, most likely including her Mom among the losses. Hell, it's probably intended to imply that most of the population of the town dies, but there's no point debating that. At the very least, don't be stupid and try to pretend no one dies when you save Chloe.

I really hate this forum.

[Kingu]

The ReBeL (Hertz) původně napsal:

King Zero původně napsal:

By your logic everyone that wants to die should just die. That's stupid and imo someone should actually help these kind of people and show them that life doesn't have to be so painful, even after losing someone really close. I myself decided to sacriface town, as this doesn't mean anyone from the town would die. Playing BtS just confirmed my conviction that I did good saving Chloe. Of course if I had an actual choice(not a zero one option) I would try to look for a third way to save everyone.

I'm just saying that if someone loses everyone who ever loved, he will probably want to die or at least he won't care what will happen with his life at all. I mean all Chloe will have is Max who just appears out of nowhere after 5 years..

Yes, she wants to die, but her will to live is so much stronger. If she really wanted to end her life she would just commit a suicide. This will to live is what keeps many people alive.

[Ogami]

Xialoh původně napsal:

The Save Chloe ending isn't some magical happy ending where Chloe survives and everyone else does too, and people have already died before your choice is ever made. You're choosing the life of Chloe weighed against the life of a substantial number of lives in Arcadia Bay, most likely including her Mom among the losses. Hell, it's probably intended to imply that most of the population of the town dies, but there's no point debating that. At the very least, don't be stupid and try to pretend no one dies when you save Chloe.

I really hate this forum.

I would most likely sacrifice that crappy town for a strip of bubblegum, for someone like Chloe i had to not even think about it.
Who cares how players come to their final decision? Its their playthrough, they can rationalize it any way they want.
If someone wants to believe that nobody died in the town, let them.

[Kingu]

Xialoh původně napsal:

The Save Chloe ending isn't some magical happy ending where Chloe survives and everyone else does too, and people have already died before your choice is ever made. You're choosing the life of Chloe weighed against the life of a substantial number of lives in Arcadia Bay, most likely including her Mom among the losses. Hell, it's probably intended to imply that most of the population of the town dies, but there's no point debating that. At the very least, don't be stupid and try to pretend no one dies when you save Chloe.

I really hate this forum.

I just wouldn't be able to sacrifice someone I love. Try to play the game as if you were Max, not as someone who is her decision making helper.

[Dynamo]

Pvt. Martin původně napsal:

Thats deep...i always sacraficed Chloe, because i came to that same belief when i first played LiS. But at the sametime since BtS, I started questioning that ending and wondered maybe Chloe deservers a happier life with Max....strange. I love the writing of these games.

Literally me

[nihilistninja]

If you managed to play through LiS and all you saw in Chloe was a broken person looking to die, then I can’t help but feel we played two different games.

Nothing about Chloe was ruined. Damaged, hurt, lonely, sure. At the start of LiS she’d taken body-blow after body-blow, losing her father, Max ditching her, Joyce moving on, her issues with David, expulsion and then Rachel disappearing, despite all this there are many moments through-out LiS where she is genuinely excited and happy. I especially don’t know how you could play through the start of LiS Ep 3 and see a Chloe who wants to die, Chloe here is nothing but filled with enjoyment for life.

And maybe that’s Chloe’s problem. She seems to be more than strong enough to carry-on with all the loss she experiences but she seems incapable of really enjoying herself unless there’s someone by her side; whether that be Rachel or Max.

The scenes with Chloe’s life being threatened by either Nathan or the train really disconfirm your impression of Chloe wanting to die and all her edgy graffiti. When Chloe’s life is threatened she is anything but accepting.

The only time Chloe accepts death in at the lighthouse when she states that she must stop being selfish, that the cost of her living is too high if it means her mother’s death and the rest of Arcadia Bay. Chloe is clear here, she wants to keep living, but she doesn’t want the consequences.

As to Max getting her powers as a chance to spend time with Chloe before sending her off, I’ve heard it many times before and it never quite meshes with the whole Chaos Theory nature of the storm and Max’s powers. Max at the end of the game is a radically different person than at the beginning after everything she went through, including sacrificing someone she loved dearly, assuming the Sacrifice Chloe ending to close the loop. A Max that had only seen a strange blue-haired woman get killed in front of her, only to discover it was Chloe and then regret never making up with her is on a vastly different life trajectory than a Sacrifice Chloe ending Max. How this can fail to result in another storm or similar result?

TLDR: Totally disagree with your read on Chloe’s character.