*SPOILERS* Can we save Rachel?

[chloehoe]

I saw this theory on the Internet and I thought it was worth sharing.

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So it’s not confirmed that the doe is Rachel Amber/Rachel’s spirit animal/etc, but people are speculating that it /is/ based on the clues given. The fact that it disappears after they find Rachel’s body, and the fact that it’s standing where Rachel is buried when you see it in Episode 2 is making lots of people believe that the deer is a spirit of Rachel in some way.

In episodes 2-4, whenever you see the deer, it’s a ghost. You can’t take a photo of it, and only Max can see it. It’s not actually there.If you take the Rachel being the doe theory, it makes sense that the deer is a ghost because Rachel is already dead.

HOWEVER.

At the end of episode 1, right at the beginning of the cutscene when you follow Chloe up to the lighthouse, what do we see?

A deer.

An alive deer.

It’s solid. It doesn’t have a ghostly fade. It makes the leaves rustle so we know it’s alive.

What if that means Rachel is still alive when Episode 1 takes place?

What if we can go back to that day and save her from being killed since we know where she’s being held now??

[aurawra]

Technically, yes. She could rewind time to prevent the overdose.

But it's also obvious that (a) fate (or whatever you'd like to call it) will keep trying to kill anyone Max saves, and (b) if Max continues to defy fate, it will have drastic consequences (i.e. the storm).

This is the whole problem with Max's power. She can save Chloe, or Rachel, or anyone, but fate will compensate in some way. You can sacrifice Arcadia Bay, but Max'll probably have to keep trying to save Chloe time and time again, resulting in another storm. That's what Chloe recognises in Episode 5.

So yeah, Max could save Rachel. But she'd either pay a high price, or keep having to save her, or both. It'd be Chloe all over again.

[LawlOfZero]

Originally posted by laura_m:

Technically, yes. She could rewind time to prevent the overdose.

But it's also obvious that (a) fate (or whatever you'd like to call it) will keep trying to kill anyone Max saves, and (b) if Max continues to defy fate, it will have drastic consequences (i.e. the storm).

This is the whole problem with Max's power. She can save Chloe, or Rachel, or anyone, but fate will compensate in some way. You can sacrifice Arcadia Bay, but Max'll probably have to keep trying to save Chloe time and time again, resulting in another storm. That's what Chloe recognises in Episode 5.

So yeah, Max could save Rachel. But she'd either pay a high price, or keep having to save her, or both. It'd be Chloe all over again.

I thought that Storm killing everyone was a trade off and that Max would not use her powers anymore. It was implied at the end of the game that there would be no more fighting as Max made the final choice that ended the storm. Meaning that there would not be a future storm because Max couldn't use her powers anymore. No powers used -> No storm. In order to make up for saving Chloe, Max had to kill many more to stable the system of time itself. They said it was Chaos Theory so..

[TCPippin]

Originally posted by Regret:

It’s solid. It doesn’t have a ghostly fade. It makes the leaves rustle so we know it’s alive.

That means it's just a deer, not an uncommon sight in Oregon.

By ep1. Rachel had been gone long enough for it to become old news. No one is gossiping about her dissapearence, police isn't turning Blackwell academy inside out looking for leads - and she IS DA's daughter, so it couldn't be negligence on their part*.
Thus, we arrive at the only conclusion: there WAS an investigation, there was a search for potential witnesses, but it came up short - Jefferson is a talented actor and Nathan wasn't grilled at all because of his father. There WERE gossips about Rachel's dissapearence, but they came and went away. And posters had been around for so long they became a common sight and no one even cares to tear them from school billboards anymore.
IIRC, there was no holding cell in the Dark Room, so they couldn't keep Rachel alive all that time. And why would they? They needed her for a few photos, and once that was done, they disposed of her.

*There's a chance that dad grew to hate Rachel in the 3 years between games and wouldn't care enough to spur the investigation, but when the original LiS story was written, mr. Amber had no development beyond his position and his familial status, so we can write that chance off.

[Shinzou]

Also, there is Alternate Reality theory :) Then sure, this is totally savable.

And considering the many inconsistencies between LiS and BtS i will just go ahead and say it is happening in an alternate anyway. So anything is possible. And should be, if they want to make more sequels.

[LawlOfZero]

Originally posted by Shinzou:

Also, there is Alternate Reality theory :) Then sure, this is totally savable.

And considering the many inconsistencies between LiS and BtS i will just go ahead and say it is happening in an alternate anyway. So anything is possible. And should be, if they want to make more sequels.

Generally if the game goes by Chaos Theory the Universe that these worlds are in follow the same thing meaning Fates are tied. There is changes these are in other universes but it seems slim. It's hopeful thinking but seeing how this same is around Chaos rules it means that both games follow it. Rachel gets upset from a text and then finds out to which she ends up burning down a forest. Same thing with Max saving Chloe. Just saying.. This is to not to say she doesn't die in another world but she probably dies more than she lives.

[aurawra]

Originally posted by LawlOfZero:

Originally posted by laura_m:

Technically, yes. She could rewind time to prevent the overdose.

But it's also obvious that (a) fate (or whatever you'd like to call it) will keep trying to kill anyone Max saves, and (b) if Max continues to defy fate, it will have drastic consequences (i.e. the storm).

This is the whole problem with Max's power. She can save Chloe, or Rachel, or anyone, but fate will compensate in some way. You can sacrifice Arcadia Bay, but Max'll probably have to keep trying to save Chloe time and time again, resulting in another storm. That's what Chloe recognises in Episode 5.

So yeah, Max could save Rachel. But she'd either pay a high price, or keep having to save her, or both. It'd be Chloe all over again.

I thought that Storm killing everyone was a trade off and that Max would not use her powers anymore. It was implied at the end of the game that there would be no more fighting as Max made the final choice that ended the storm. Meaning that there would not be a future storm because Max couldn't use her powers anymore. No powers used -> No storm. In order to make up for saving Chloe, Max had to kill many more to stable the system of time itself. They said it was Chaos Theory so..

That's if you chose to sacrifice Chloe. If you chose to sacrifice Arcadia Bay, Max would probably have to continue using her powers to save Chloe's life, and doing so would cause another storm.

[Ogami]

Originally posted by laura_m:

That's if you chose to sacrifice Chloe. If you chose to sacrifice Arcadia Bay, Max would probably have to continue using her powers to save Chloe's life, and doing so would cause another storm.

Nope, that is not true. The developers said in a livestream that after the final decision the danger to Chloe is gone either way. The storm was the price for saving Chloe`s life and messing up the timeline.
So you accept the price or you dont. If you do then thats it, Chloe is save for the rest of her life, the price has been payed.
The point of the 2 endings in LiS is that both are equally valid. Its an final end, either way.

They originally planned a short vignette added to the end of the "sacrifce Bay" ending to show what became of Max & Chloe in the next few years. They decided against that because they did not want to enforce any kind of canon on their lives after the game end.
But there is not any more danger for Chloe or for another storm.

[Riddler]

Originally posted by Regret:

At the end of episode 1, right at the beginning of the cutscene when you follow Chloe up to the lighthouse, what do we see?

A deer.

An alive deer.

It’s solid. It doesn’t have a ghostly fade. It makes the leaves rustle so we know it’s alive.

What if that means Rachel is still alive when Episode 1 takes place?

It's a dream/vision sequence. So there's no need for the deer to appear as ghost. At the time of episode 1, Rachel is probably dead since several months. She was missing for 6 months, at the beginning of the game and i bet she died in the first days after she was kidnapped. Jefferson usually not kill his "models", if i recall correctly (like Kate) and let them free after the "session". Nathan has killed Rachel accidentally.

Edit:
Oh, i have to correct me. You're not talking from the beginning of the game with the storm at the lighthouse. Ok, then forget what i say about the deer. I don't remember all the details of the scene you're describing. :)

[chloehoe]

Originally posted by Riddler:

Originally posted by Regret:

At the end of episode 1, right at the beginning of the cutscene when you follow Chloe up to the lighthouse, what do we see?

A deer.

An alive deer.

It’s solid. It doesn’t have a ghostly fade. It makes the leaves rustle so we know it’s alive.

What if that means Rachel is still alive when Episode 1 takes place?

It's a dream/vision sequence. So there's no need for the deer to appear as ghost. At the time of episode 1, Rachel is probably dead since several months. She was missing for 6 months, at the beginning of the game and i bet she died in the first days after she was kidnapped. Jefferson usually not kill his "models", if i recall correctly (like Kate) and let them free after the "session". Nathan has killed Rachel accidentally.

I don't think that the person who wrote this theory meant the sequence with the tornado.
He/she probably meant the cutscene after you exit from Chloe's house.

[xabungle]

Not sure but either ending I assume Max leaves Arcadia Bay. I know she stays for the funeral but does she end up living in AB? I always save Chloe so... She has no power outside Arcadia Bay. At least , this is the feeling I get from both games. Just like with Rachel and the fire mysteriously putting itself out. Only happens in AB.

[Ogami]

Originally posted by xabungle:

Not sure but either ending I assume Max leaves Arcadia Bay. I know she stays for the funeral but does she end up living in AB? I always save Chloe so... She has no power outside Arcadia Bay. At least , this is the feeling I get from both games. Just like with Rachel and the fire mysteriously putting itself out. Only happens in AB.

But Max uses the power when she is in Seattle as the photo contest winner in Episode 5.
So that does not hold true.

[xabungle]

Ah forgot about that . Been awhile. Nice then anything is possible

[Discussions_Acc]

Spoiler Michelle betrays you in GTA IV.

Don't complain. I clearly marked the spoiler.

[MarcoCash]

Originally posted by Ogami:

They originally planned a short vignette added to the end of the "sacrifce Bay" ending to show what became of Max & Chloe in the next few years. They decided against that because they did not want to enforce any kind of canon on their lives after the game end.
But there is not any more danger for Chloe or for another storm.

I missed that... do you have additional information (or just a link)?

[MarcoCash]

One thing about Max powers: she can rewind a short amount of time, and can travel in time only using photograps, but she must be in the shot, and as soon as she does something that changes the past she forgets everything until she reaches the moment in time when se left. So, to go back to April, she needs a photographs of herself in that period, while still in Seattle. As soon as she goes back, the first thing she will do that changes the timeline will make her forget everything she knows about what's going to happen.