The combat system: great on paper, terrible in reality

[citizen_ychoux]

Real Time and Turn Base both used to be the only 2 combat systems available. Phantom Brigade is trying to break out with this paradygm with their "turn based Real Time" combat.

While I praise the devs for their audacity, I have to say, after testing it, that the implementation is really lackluster, to say the least. In my humble opinion, it is terrible, and will be the reason why I won't buy the game.

The main reason is that it gives the player an unfair advantage. The player knows in advance what the AI is going to do, and can precisely articulate his response to negate any tries by the AI to deal any damage, all the while crushing down the opposition. There is zero suspense. There is never a moment when you fear for what your opponent is going to do. The result is, unless the AI has crushing advantage (numbers or strenght), there is absolutely zero challenge for the player. The game just becomes a tedious micromanagement of the timeline to cut down your opponents to pieces while they pathetically fail at inflicting any real damage.

The second is that it makes the action confusing. The promise of planning an action and seeing it unfolding before your eyes like a movie is a farce. You cannot see everything of what is happening. The action focuses on one area, and you miss out on what is happening on the other parts of the battlefield, unless you skip from one part to the next in a very anti-climatic way. You end up trying to guess how the action unfolded, what damages have been made to whom, and it makes things very confusing.

I appreciate the devs trying to mix things up, but sometimes, a new idea is not a good idea. In my opinion, Phantom Brigade should go back to the Turn Base System, or give the player the ability to use Turn Base.

[GregSolidus]

1. The prediction system is going to become less precise.
2. They're going to add replays.

[derekderekderekd]

Originally posted by citizen_ychoux:

Real Time and Turn Base both used to be the only 2 combat systems available.

Literally the first thing you wrote is wrong. WEGO has been around for decades.

[Darkside99x]

It is boring as hell frankly, the prediction system pretty much railroads the combat.

You cant not use it.

The way the turn plays out with numbers flying everywhere is also incredibly lackluster, at no point was it apparent who took significant damage or not, you cant even move the mouse without the whole turn playing out.

[Terroriza]

in Slay the Spire you know what they are going to do. Why is this so bad? how much have you played the game, is it really super easy?

[MrFusion]

Into the Breach is build on you knowing what the enemy does, and it's pretty damn good

[Albert103]

Actually I find the combat system one of the key cool features of the game, once you learn how to use it. Sure, it won't be as easy as playing pokemon or a spam-based RTS game where you just build as many units as you can, but it's very cool and original.

[Kel'Ithra]

I don't know I find it fairly solid system, it doesn't railroad you since you can end up doing the same scenario in different ways. Fairly different than what Front Mission and Battletech does in terms of how they handle turn based combat.

It's not going to be everyone's cup of tea, but I see nothing wrong with the system also the game is solid, compared to many other Early Access games.

[TheNasky]

as someone else pointed out, mixing real time with turn based is nothing new, and phantom brigade's implementation is actually pretty good.

the main issue with it is the fact that the game is pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ easy early on and it makes it kinda boring.

once you reach the midgame (3+ hours in) the game becomes a lot harder and it is actually quite challenging and fun.

my main issue was that by the time i got there i always already getting bored, and the lack of mission variety was starting to annoy me too.

once you leave aside the boring earlygame the game is actually pretty damm good tho.


as for your second point, i have to agree 100%. sometimes there's too much ♥♥♥♥ happening at the same time and you end up missing half the action. so imo fixing that should be their top priority right now.

hopefully once the replay system is in place this should be fixed, but in the meantime there's bound to be situations where you have to guess what happened because you were looking at something else.

[Albert103]

Actually the game is becoming just great. The replay system will add to it. But the game currently looks and feels great - the battles are amazing. The campaign mode perhaps needs some more work, with the enemy trying to fight back more etc.

[MinenSpecht]

Originally posted by citizen_ychoux:

While I praise the devs for their audacity, I have to say, after testing it, that the implementation is really lackluster, to say the least. In my humble opinion, it is terrible, and will be the reason why I won't buy the game.

So.. how did you test it? I mean if you dont own the game your testing is limited isnt it?

[Nasarog]

Originally posted by citizen_ychoux:

Real Time and Turn Base both used to be the only 2 combat systems available. Phantom Brigade is trying to break out with this paradygm with their "turn based Real Time" combat.

While I praise the devs for their audacity, I have to say, after testing it, that the implementation is really lackluster, to say the least. In my humble opinion, it is terrible, and will be the reason why I won't buy the game.

The main reason is that it gives the player an unfair advantage. The player knows in advance what the AI is going to do, and can precisely articulate his response to negate any tries by the AI to deal any damage, all the while crushing down the opposition. There is zero suspense. There is never a moment when you fear for what your opponent is going to do. The result is, unless the AI has crushing advantage (numbers or strenght), there is absolutely zero challenge for the player. The game just becomes a tedious micromanagement of the timeline to cut down your opponents to pieces while they pathetically fail at inflicting any real damage.

The second is that it makes the action confusing. The promise of planning an action and seeing it unfolding before your eyes like a movie is a farce. You cannot see everything of what is happening. The action focuses on one area, and you miss out on what is happening on the other parts of the battlefield, unless you skip from one part to the next in a very anti-climatic way. You end up trying to guess how the action unfolded, what damages have been made to whom, and it makes things very confusing.

I appreciate the devs trying to mix things up, but sometimes, a new idea is not a good idea. In my opinion, Phantom Brigade should go back to the Turn Base System, or give the player the ability to use Turn Base.

Hmm, I'd like to see them realize their dream. Currently, there is a similar system in play in a few games, mostly space battles. Also, the WeGO system isn't unique or new. It's been around for a good long while.

[Prophet Of Merci]

Well well well. A year later and i decided to hop in here. Been playing the Alpha as i bought the game last week and have been playing it for days straight. Learned alot, spoke with the devs from time to time in their discord.

I like what i see, and the original post is pretty wrong about the use of predicting where the enemy would be. The AI usually outnumbers you, or has equipment you were sorely unprepared for. They hit hard, and so do you.

Your mechs are using a prototype technology that can predict your opponent's moves exactly 5 seconds into the future.

On paper, you might THINK it would make the game super easy...maaaan, im telling you right now, you will still get your teeth kicked in due to this AI. There are all kinds of weapons, armor variants, buffs, subsystems and modifiers on weapons, parts, and mech limbs. These very factors can make or break your squad since you won't always know what the enemy will throw at ya.

Oh, you can predict that the enemy is going to shoot a swarm of missiles at you on the next turn. But you also have a Tank with a cannon and another mech about to grind you to dust with a point blank shotgun. Whats more important? Dealing with the tank whilst dodging a point blank shotgun, and just eating the swarm of missiles coming your way? Or should you prioritize the missiles, find cover and sit still while the tank cannon and shotgunner take a huge chunk out of your mech's integrity???

I know yall posted this stuff about a year ago, and i dont know what state the game was in at that time, but right NOW!? It can get REALLY difficult and hectic early game, and mid game, and late game.

For instance. Join a mission to attack a well defended base. Ok cool. 3 mechs and 1 tank. I can handle that a bit with my 4 man mech lance. During the fight, and me cleaning up the last mech, enemy reinforcements arrive with 3 tanks and 6 more mechs, all coming down like a seal team 6 killteam, half of which were using long range guided missiles to pick my guys off. I didnt get out of that fight unscathed, lemme tell you....

[Albert103]

Agreed. The AI has really improved and the combat system is very cool now.
I like how the game has evolved so far, really worth it and it looks so much better now with weather and good animations. I actually find it a lot more difficult than a year ago...

[kknd]

I find the complaint that "The AI would need overwhelming force to threaten you." perhaps the most comedic thing I've read in years. Since, you know, the entire scenario of the game exists around that idea. That in essence, an asymmetrical conflict is being fought. The two sides aren't playing by the same rules. That is kind of the point? It's what the game's trying to narratively and via gameplay sell me on. The idea that my side has very little and the only reason we have a chance of victory is a combination of this prediction tech and my being just that good a tactician/strategist.

It just makes me laugh out loud at how those holding that stance seem to have missed the entire marketing pitch of the game. Mind you, a simultaneous execution without prediction system multiplayer might be fun for some folks, but it's not what the product being sold to me is.

So thank you OP, I needed a laugh today.

[Prophet Of Merci]

If anyone comes across this, just search up "Phantom Brigade Discord" and youll find the devs most active there. Theres a few mods too I believe.