Massive Lag even on my high end machine

[CoalBerner]

So unless I can fix this massive lag I am having with this game, I will have to submit a refund request. I wanted to try and enjoy this game but I fundamentally can't. Performance is rock bottom for me.

So unless I can get it resolved in 50 minutes or less (half the time for this game on my account now has been nothing but bouncing back and forth between the game and the launcher. With more of that being in the launcher itself. Not a fan of game devs using launchers to just make it so users can adjust their settings. It's a real game breaker and with experience for me here shows it.

Hardware is as follow:
Intel i7-4790k 4.00GHz
AMD Radeon RX 580 8.0GB Vram Edition
16GM of RAM
Win10 Pro 64-bit

I've tried both setting on Ultra and High and nether give me anything in terms of a playable frame rate. I have also tried turning off the Phyx option as that's a Nvidia based option and not a AMD one.

For the record I can play Elite Dangerous, a massive GPU demanding game on the highest settings with no frame drops. Those that do happen I barely even notice or catch.

The Witcher 3, same as above, but some of the settings have to be set to high, with the rest on Ultra. Witcher is still a valid performance bar for basing hardware capabilities off of.

So the fact that this game is tanking my frame rate so hard when it is far less visually demanding due to lower quality models, lower terrain, foliage and texture detail, compared to the two aforementioned games (one of them being a hardcore space sim) tells me that it's not my hardware but there's some sort of memory or software leak happening. Which is outside of my control as a user.

So does anyone have any miracle workarounds? Or is this par for the course and this is how this game is expected to run?

[KiwiGal]

HI.

Best practice is to lower all settings in the Performance Tab on the Launcher and Video settings under the System Menu on the Main Window, then increase individually and see how things run.

Running on Ultra maybe a bit tough on your video card - I did a quick google and it is comparable to Nvidia 1060 / 1070 card. With my 1060 I had "Shader Quality" on Ultra, Shadows Medium Textures and scenery Normal, and the rest on High. Antialiasing 2x. But still need to alter at times. Also "Maximum Draw distance" will effect performance.

Not all routes are the same with the amount of content used so performance will vary. Content can also vary in performance, depending how it has been made. You just need to find a balance.

[CoalBerner]

Originally posted by KiwiGal:

HI.

Best practice is to lower all settings in the Performance Tab on the Launcher and Video settings under the System Menu on the Main Window, then increase individually and see how things run.

Running on Ultra maybe a bit tough on your video card - I did a quick google and it is comparable to Nvidia 1060 / 1070 card. With my 1060 I had "Shader Quality" on Ultra, Shadows Medium Textures and scenery Normal, and the rest on High. Antialiasing 2x. But still need to alter at times. Also "Maximum Draw distance" will effect performance.

Not all routes are the same with the amount of content used so performance will vary. Content can also vary in performance, depending how it has been made. You just need to find a balance.

Thanks for the input. I decided to submit a refund request and it was approved. The issue is that I don't think i would have been able to find the ideal settings within the time frame I had left with how Steam has their Refund ToS setup. 2 Hours really isn't enough to try and trouble shoot a game that uses a launcher just to set game settings.

There was also a issue where every time I closed the launcher to restart it (which itself makes no sense because the game isn't even running and I have to restart the launcher to have the settings be applied), steam wouldn't register it being close for up to half a minute.

Overall this game just has too many bugs and flaws out of the box on a machine that very much should be able to run it when it can run far higher end games flawlessly out of the box.

Thank you for trying though. I appreciate it. :)

[KiwiGal]

Pleased to help.

Yes, the 2 hour time frame can pass quickly alright. Shame you were having other problems too :(

If you are still interested in Trainz generally, there is lots of information at the Auran forums.
https://forums.auran.com/trainz/forum.php

KG

[CoalBerner]

Originally posted by KiwiGal:

Pleased to help.

Yes, the 2 hour time frame can pass quickly alright. Shame you were having other problems too :(

If you are still interested in Trainz generally, there is lots of information at the Auran forums.
https://forums.auran.com/trainz/forum.php

KG

Thanks for the friendly and kind responses you've been giving me. Shows that the Steam Forums aren't all full of toxic angry people looking to fight others.

And ya, when the launcher and overall experience just to get the game running is this clunky. Spending my money else where is just the right thing to do. Speaking with my wallet is the fastest and only way to send a messages do AAA devs these days.

[Mondyrocks]

Elite dangerous is not a massive gpu game at all.
When I bought it, at release, my GTX 970 could run everything at ultra, 60fps at 1080p.

Not being disrespectful but your pc is not high end at all.
A Haswell i7 is slow nowadays and a polaris graphics card isn't the best.
You could say it's mid tier, at best.

Having said all of that, this game is an awful resource hog and brings even high end systems to their knees.........

[CoalBerner]

Originally posted by Mondyrocks:

Elite dangerous is not a massive gpu game at all.
When I bought it, at release, my GTX 970 could run everything at ultra, 60fps at 1080p.

Not being disrespectful but your pc is not high end at all.
A Haswell i7 is slow nowadays and a polaris graphics card isn't the best.
You could say it's mid tier, at best.

Having said all of that, this game is an awful resource hog and brings even high end systems to their knees.........

I just did a full system rig upgrade (minus a very few slight reused parts) and while I could try again, I still doubt that my new build could run this game. That's just how little faith I have in how it is optimized.

And actually Elite Dangerous does take a sizable amount of CPU and GPU power to run. The massive worlds, stations and ships are all a testament to that.

I could run ED just fine on my old build (all on Ultra/High Settings) and have minimal to no lag due to the game demands, I can only surmise that I'd have 0 lag (outside of maybe internet latency) on my new rig. Which I doubt I could say the same with confidence for this game.

This thread can be closed if need be. I no longer have this game as I got a refund for it. Sim games are demanding, but when I can run one but not even run another due to the lag and stuttering then I will place my money else where that I can feel confident in the product. Which I don't feel with Trainz 2019.

[Mondyrocks]

Originally posted by Daragoth:

Originally posted by Mondyrocks:

Elite dangerous is not a massive gpu game at all.
When I bought it, at release, my GTX 970 could run everything at ultra, 60fps at 1080p.

Not being disrespectful but your pc is not high end at all.
A Haswell i7 is slow nowadays and a polaris graphics card isn't the best.
You could say it's mid tier, at best.

Having said all of that, this game is an awful resource hog and brings even high end systems to their knees.........

I just did a full system rig upgrade (minus a very few slight reused parts) and while I could try again, I still doubt that my new build could run this game. That's just how little faith I have in how it is optimized.

And actually Elite Dangerous does take a sizable amount of CPU and GPU power to run. The massive worlds, stations and ships are all a testament to that.

I could run ED just fine on my old build (all on Ultra/High Settings) and have minimal to no lag due to the game demands, I can only surmise that I'd have 0 lag (outside of maybe internet latency) on my new rig. Which I doubt I could say the same with confidence for this game.

This thread can be closed if need be. I no longer have this game as I got a refund for it. Sim games are demanding, but when I can run one but not even run another due to the lag and stuttering then I will place my money else where that I can feel confident in the product. Which I don't feel with Trainz 2019.

If it makes you feel any better, my rig (Ryzen 3600, 16gb ddr4 3200 ram and a 2080ti) was brought to it's knees by tane with everything maxed out.
Absolutely ridiculous, lmao

[CoalBerner]

Originally posted by Mondyrocks:

Originally posted by Daragoth:

I just did a full system rig upgrade (minus a very few slight reused parts) and while I could try again, I still doubt that my new build could run this game. That's just how little faith I have in how it is optimized.

And actually Elite Dangerous does take a sizable amount of CPU and GPU power to run. The massive worlds, stations and ships are all a testament to that.

I could run ED just fine on my old build (all on Ultra/High Settings) and have minimal to no lag due to the game demands, I can only surmise that I'd have 0 lag (outside of maybe internet latency) on my new rig. Which I doubt I could say the same with confidence for this game.

This thread can be closed if need be. I no longer have this game as I got a refund for it. Sim games are demanding, but when I can run one but not even run another due to the lag and stuttering then I will place my money else where that I can feel confident in the product. Which I don't feel with Trainz 2019.

If it makes you feel any better, my rig (Ryzen 3600, 16gb ddr4 3200 ram and a 2080ti) was brought to it's knees by tane with everything maxed out.
Absolutely ridiculous, lmao

Is Tane the shortened name for this game?

And holy crap, that's unacceptable for any game to do. Sim or not.
I now have a Ryzan 9 3900X, 64GB of DDR4, and both a RX 5700 XT (new card) and my old RX 580. Since most new Mobo's (I learned) can use both cards without them being the same and needing the old Bridges (which I guess have been phased out), I can use both cards. However to be honest I doubt it would matter. lol.

[Mondyrocks]

Wow, great upgrade!
12 core cpu and a really decent (2070) class card.
You should be fine for quite a while and will kill almost everything at 1440p.
I have a 4k monitor which is why I got a 2080ti, but it can't run tane at 4k, not smoothly anyway :))

Tane is the previous version of this game :)

[ZecRail]

Hi All
The performance settings in Trainz are designed to allow you flexibility in what details you want to have. This does mean that some settings can be set quite high, for what they are, and as such can have a greater impact on performance.

For most systems we don't expect that they will run with every setting at maximum, instead you would adjust the settings that are most important to maximum and tune other settings to suit.

Additionally, most content and routes for Trainz are created by members of the community. This does mean that the performance you see will vary depending on the routes and content that you use. If the route has a lot of detail in a small space, or a lot of less efficient content, then performance will be affected more than a route with either less detail in a small space or that uses more efficient content.

For the routes included with TRS19 we did work to make these are performance friendly as possible, however except for the 'kickstarter county 2' route, these routes were still made by members of the community and as such where region or route specific content was used that had no alternatives available, there may still be some content that is less efficient than we would have preferred. We did work to make the performance on each route as consistent across that route as possible though.

The advantage of going this way with content and routes is that the community generally knows more about the route/region they are creating, but it also means that the content used can sometimes be less performance friendly, where no alternatives are available.

Currently the other option would be to release Trainz either with only one or two smallish in-house routes, or charge a much higher price to include a couple of larger routes, as creating prototype (or even freelance) routes takes thousands of man hours, when you include creating the necessary scenery objects.

What this means though is that each route, and each session, can perform differently and as such you may need to adjust the video and performance settings to suit. When in game, you can adjust the maximum draw distance, scenery detail, and tree detail without needing to restart Trainz, and as such these settings are intended to allow you to increase or lower detail in game where necessary.

Regards
Zec
N3V Games

[CoalBerner]

Originally posted by ZecRail:

Hi All
The performance settings in Trainz are designed to allow you flexibility in what details you want to have. This does mean that some settings can be set quite high, for what they are, and as such can have a greater impact on performance.

For most systems we don't expect that they will run with every setting at maximum, instead you would adjust the settings that are most important to maximum and tune other settings to suit.

Additionally, most content and routes for Trainz are created by members of the community. This does mean that the performance you see will vary depending on the routes and content that you use. If the route has a lot of detail in a small space, or a lot of less efficient content, then performance will be affected more than a route with either less detail in a small space or that uses more efficient content.

For the routes included with TRS19 we did work to make these are performance friendly as possible, however except for the 'kickstarter county 2' route, these routes were still made by members of the community and as such where region or route specific content was used that had no alternatives available, there may still be some content that is less efficient than we would have preferred. We did work to make the performance on each route as consistent across that route as possible though.

The advantage of going this way with content and routes is that the community generally knows more about the route/region they are creating, but it also means that the content used can sometimes be less performance friendly, where no alternatives are available.

Currently the other option would be to release Trainz either with only one or two smallish in-house routes, or charge a much higher price to include a couple of larger routes, as creating prototype (or even freelance) routes takes thousands of man hours, when you include creating the necessary scenery objects.

What this means though is that each route, and each session, can perform differently and as such you may need to adjust the video and performance settings to suit. When in game, you can adjust the maximum draw distance, scenery detail, and tree detail without needing to restart Trainz, and as such these settings are intended to allow you to increase or lower detail in game where necessary.

Regards
Zec
N3V Games

If you can please provide what specs a Computer must have to run all settings on high, please post that here. Otherwise I have no reason to believe what reads like a corporate copy and paste letter that is less helpful the a toast without butter.

Considering that I am not the only one who has run into this games abysmal optimization to your one corporate letter that does nothing to actually help and is dismissive to me as a user who previously bought your game, I can't, within a reasonable doubt, believe you at face value.

I can run any other game (even before my recent upgrade) on high specs. Even the Witcher 3, which was (for many many years after release) used as a hardware benchmark due to it's high fidelity and intense graphical demands, could run flawlessly on all high settings with some even on Ultra.Something I couldn't even do on this game with all settings on high.

So unless you can post what the hardware needs are for running your game on the highest of settings, your reply (whether you wish to believe it or not) reads like the expelling of hot air.

Sorry but I just can't believe you.

I do not think it unreasonable as someone who is here to buy your game to ask for something.

PS: You are saying the obvious with the majority of what you copy and pasted here. The general knowledge level of gamers know how games work and how adjusting a games graphics settings can affect their performance. We aren't as stupid as you seem to think we are. Don't talk down to your customer base, it's unbecoming and the fast track to losing your communities respect and their financial support.

[CoalBerner]

Originally posted by Mondyrocks:

Wow, great upgrade!
12 core cpu and a really decent (2070) class card.
You should be fine for quite a while and will kill almost everything at 1440p.
I have a 4k monitor which is why I got a 2080ti, but it can't run tane at 4k, not smoothly anyway :))

Tane is the previous version of this game :)

The fact that a developer had to reply (regardless of the fact that said reply was unhelpful and read like corporate copy and paste shlop), says that there is something seriously wrong with the optimization of their game.

Big name devs these days let their pride speak for them rather then admitting there is a problem. Ignoring a problem is easier then admitting it and working to resolve it. It's why Indie devs have (and still are) dominating the market. They admit fault, show what they are going to do to resolve it and then resolve it. Not this "Oh well it's not our fault your PC can't run our highly intense game, even though you have some amazing rig specs", just in corporate speak. lol.

Also thanks for the compliments on the new build. I try to future proof each build the best I can. I don't go for the best of the best (which is a waste of money and honestly a pretty stupid choice financially speaking), but I do shoot for Mid-High tier levels of tech. My last build lasted me for 7 years. That's with the GPU being the only thing I really upgraded. Otherwise everything else was pushed past it's prime in the tech world but it did a good job and proud of it. I do my best to keep my tech up and running (and cared for) for as long as I possibly can. It means less money spent over time while still maintaining some darn good performance and graphical capabilities.

I have a 4k Monitor, though I doubt with this games piss poor optimization the upgrade would even matter. I'll stick to stable games that can look just as good (if not better) while not sacrificing my enjoyment experience over suffering through this games mess of a programming and excuse of optimization. lol

I wonder if the devs only used If else statements in their code. Lol. Would be a reason why the game runs like dung, even on hardware that blows games of the same age out of the water.

[Oz Gaming]

I've used Trainz since the very first version was released and I have to admit that every single version of the game has run like complete Crap including Trainz 2019 !!!

There's my 2 cents worth.

[CoalBerner]

Originally posted by Peter:

I've used Trainz since the very first version was released and I have to admit that every single version of the game has run like complete Crap including Trainz 2019 !!!

There's my 2 cents worth.

Thanks for your input. It might be 2 cents, but it's another voice in the crowd that needs to be heard. A well designed and stable game doesn't run like this. It's not a end-user issue and while I believed that before it's nice to have other voices added in helping encourage my own voice as being valid and not just something people will see as made up. Thank you. :)

[mrmangosir]

I've just recently done the same, asked for a refund. I would love to play this game, but its grinds to a halt other than being on 2001 graphics. Spent up to my limit (2 hours) trying to sort through reasonable graphics to decent FPS. XPlane 11 on high on my machine works really nice and decent FPS. I won't compare good looking non simulator games, as it's not fair to do so. There is more going on in this game other than nice graphics.

Huge shame, because I know I would love this game. Get I couldn't get ultra, but expect reasonable graphics on my machine.

Maybe have a demo available for the game?