CV are too weak!!

[durendal85]

each mods and patch going to nerf CV's. I have You for this becouse I used to play carriers (or DD) . But now there is no chance to play with it and have pleasure with playing!!!!!
aircraft with rocket is like ♥♥♥♥ too slow for DD or CL even some BB!! many ships have so good AA that You cant do even one attack with aircraft! this is ♥♥♥♥- not historical. from VIII-X tier CV do only spotting or attacking one BB (played by noob). PLS admins change this becouse this playing is like ♥♥♥♥ (so much coins and exp go to trash :(:( !!!)

[Banzai]

CVs remain the most influential class in the game if you know what you are doing. If you are struggling then thats on you. Plenty of good Youtube ppl showing how to play CV or ask here if you have specific problems. Dont assume they are too weak for everyone playing them just because you seem to be struggling.

[Dani :3]

The fact that people still somehow fail with by far the most powerful class, that was redesigned from the ground up to be as easy to play as possible, never ceases to amuse me.

[durendal85]

CV's is very powerfull in IV-VI tier and medium in VIII. But most of another ships above VII tier have so strong AA guns that CV's can only spotting or attack by torps from distance. In my opinion creators should do somethings with this category ships. Maybe some change with spotting camuflaged DD ( aircrafts can't spot some of them from distance which don't let You attack by rockets or torps) , or protection for aircrafts against AA guns: CV's should be able to dogding AA gun fire (ofcourse not against all damages). But please don't tell there is everything good in WOW and nice balanced. Becouse everyone who play in this game many houres know that BB are most powerful (especcially above VII tier) - and this is not historical truth (each higher tier of CV should be more dewastating enemy ships). And now we have new mod / patch with subs which can smash enemy CV - tactic is easy -rush from start to enemy cv, go underwather before it and fire all torps two times. Bro tell me that You can sink sub by CV when it rush on You and You don't have assist from another ships class...

[Banzai]

Originally posted by durendal85:

CV's is very powerfull in IV-VI tier and medium in VIII. But most of another ships above VII tier have so strong AA guns that CV's can only spotting or attack by torps from distance. In my opinion creators should do somethings with this category ships. Maybe some change with spotting camuflaged DD ( aircrafts can't spot some of them from distance which don't let You attack by rockets or torps) , or protection for aircrafts against AA guns: CV's should be able to dogding AA gun fire (ofcourse not against all damages). But please don't tell there is everything good in WOW and nice balanced. Becouse everyone who play in this game many houres know that BB are most powerful (especcially above VII tier) - and this is not historical truth (each higher tier of CV should be more dewastating enemy ships). And now we have new mod / patch with subs which can smash enemy CV - tactic is easy -rush from start to enemy cv, go underwather before it and fire all torps two times. Bro tell me that You can sink sub by CV when it rush on You and You don't have assist from another ships class...

Well, you should be taking all the captain perks and upgrades that improve the survivability of your planes which will help you versus AA. To be honest its possible to get strikes on any target regardless of their AA (even if in T8 CV versus some T10 AA monster) if you dont mind losing a lot of planes in the process, but in the early game you really should be going after DDs and lone targets. Always consider how many strikes you are likely to get (often just single strikes at the start of the match) and send some planes home so you dont needlessly waste them after they drop their payload.

There are two sorts of AA - continuous and flak. Flak can be dodged fairly easily since the flak clouds will spawn where the game predicts you will be. Its the flak clouds that will kill your planes if you dont dodge, while the continuous AA essentially just gives you a timer for how long your planes can stay over a target. Also bear in mind that a lot of ships have weaker AA the closer you are and if you are within 3.5km of your target there will be no more flak do worry about.

The sub interaction isnt ideal for a CV but im assuming thats kind of deliberate since carriers can deal with any other class of ship. If a sub manages to sneak past your team and sink an unmoving CV sitting in spawn then good luck to him (and I think "rush" is maybe overstating it a bit - they wont be going much more than 30 knots). Watch for if you are spotted but well before that drop fighters on the likely location of any submarine to help your team find and sink them. Homing torps dont work so well versus CVs either with the long lasting damage control negating sonar, so as long as you are moving (whether with autopilot or just pressing Q or E and sailing in circles) the CV wont be an easy target. Im really not a fan of subs but they are easily taken out if a few people focus them and while dealing damage to them with planes isnt possible unless the sub is out of dive time or isnt paying attention, the CV is well equipped to spot them and force them to waste valuable battery.

Regarding most powerful class, its really not BB although thats certainly the most played. Nothing else has the same influence in a match than a CV piloted by someone competant. This becomes obvious when you look at the highest individual winrates of players on any server. Its next to impossible to touch 80%+ WR in a BB just due to the fact you might carry your flank but you cant always carry the whole team. A CV player can have influence anywhere on the map and so the very good players can have stupidly high WR %s.

Sorry for wall of text and if you are looking for specific advice for a particular CV or game mechanic then ask away.

[durendal85]

Thank You Banzai for Your good advices, especcially about flak canon. Thanks for Your time and long answer.

[Banzai]

Originally posted by durendal85:

Thank You Banzai for Your good advices, especcially about flak canon. Thanks for Your time and long answer.

My pleasure. Hope some of the advice helps :)

[Glorious Comrade]

after the nerf CV can not hunt DDs by itself anymore. what is toxic is the community still expect CV to be a DD hunting role. CV can spot the DD but its now the job of all the other surface ship to do the killing. CV was the influential class because DD is actually the most influential class and CV used to be able to hunt them, so a good CV player decide the fate of the battle by killing the DDs.

Not the case anymore. I feel CV is now the least influential ship. CV now allows a competent team to win harder by spotting and picking off dying ships that would otherwise run away, but do nothing for a team that dont shoot the ships you spots or just suck at aiming. Whereas before CV can literally carry the team.

[christof]

There are more ways to hurt a DD than just rocket planes. Even for a CV. And the ones with shorter fire delays can still hit a DD, especially if he's not paying full attention to you. Never mind one that isn't at speed.
Also spotting has always been one of the main strengths of CVs. That hasn't changed at all. I'll be honest here: It sounds a bit as if you were more playing for yourself, to acquire damage and kills for you. And not so much for the team. That's not meant as a reproach here, that is a choice you can make. But it also sounds as if you're just annoyed that you can only farm on other CVs, BBs and any cruisers with ease now, while DDs take a bit more work. And calling CVs too weak and the least influential ship class for it. And that seems a bit... for a lack of a better word: Snotty.

[Banzai]

Originally posted by Glorious Comrade:

after the nerf CV can not hunt DDs by itself anymore. what is toxic is the community still expect CV to be a DD hunting role. CV can spot the DD but its now the job of all the other surface ship to do the killing. CV was the influential class because DD is actually the most influential class and CV used to be able to hunt them, so a good CV player decide the fate of the battle by killing the DDs.

Not the case anymore. I feel CV is now the least influential ship. CV now allows a competent team to win harder by spotting and picking off dying ships that would otherwise run away, but do nothing for a team that dont shoot the ships you spots or just suck at aiming. Whereas before CV can literally carry the team.

Sorry, but the above is really not the case. Speaking from experience, rocket planes take a little more skill to use now but a competent CV player will still land hits on a DD with them, and HE bombers, skip bombers and torps are all viable vs DDs as well if you know what you are doing. The only class of plane that its not really worth trying with is AP dive bombers but even then they can get a last hit on a low HP target.

Its also worth noting that Brit CVs have a complete suite of planes that work well versus DDs - literally every plane they have is viable against them and the rocket planes on them didnt get the nerf others did so perform much as they did before. With other nations you will have to lead your target, much like any ship will when firing at something that isnt stationary but as mentioned a half decent CV player will still be landing hits on any target with rockets even with the longer lead time needed now.

A CV is still more than capable of carrying a team, but it takes a little more skill to do now is all.

[Glorious Comrade]

Originally posted by Banzai:

Originally posted by Glorious Comrade:

after the nerf CV can not hunt DDs by itself anymore. what is toxic is the community still expect CV to be a DD hunting role. CV can spot the DD but its now the job of all the other surface ship to do the killing. CV was the influential class because DD is actually the most influential class and CV used to be able to hunt them, so a good CV player decide the fate of the battle by killing the DDs.

Not the case anymore. I feel CV is now the least influential ship. CV now allows a competent team to win harder by spotting and picking off dying ships that would otherwise run away, but do nothing for a team that dont shoot the ships you spots or just suck at aiming. Whereas before CV can literally carry the team.

Sorry, but the above is really not the case. Speaking from experience, rocket planes take a little more skill to use now but a competent CV player will still land hits on a DD with them, and HE bombers, skip bombers and torps are all viable vs DDs as well if you know what you are doing. The only class of plane that its not really worth trying with is AP dive bombers but even then they can get a last hit on a low HP target.

Its also worth noting that Brit CVs have a complete suite of planes that work well versus DDs - literally every plane they have is viable against them and the rocket planes on them didnt get the nerf others did so perform much as they did before. With other nations you will have to lead your target, much like any ship will when firing at something that isnt stationary but as mentioned a half decent CV player will still be landing hits on any target with rockets even with the longer lead time needed now.

A CV is still more than capable of carrying a team, but it takes a little more skill to do now is all.

I an not the best CV player but I think I am a decent CV player, pre - nerf, my CV win rate in ranked was 63% - 70% depending on which CV, UK was the highest as your mentioned, UK have 2 planes that can hunt DD effectively. my highest rank was Gold 7. Now my win rate with CV is below 50%. I feel it is no longer about skill after the nerf.

This is what playing CV against DD feels like now:

If you are an BB and you try to lead your shot against an DD, but here is the catch, there is 3 second delay from you press your mouse to the gun actually firing. and as soon as you fire your shot, an circle will appear on the water to let the DD know roughly where your already fired shells will land. It is like playing rock paper scissor, you already committed to your choice but the other player can react after seeing your commitment.

Consider these points:

1) DDs have high concealment. Meaning often you can not see where the DD is before you make an plane attack run.
2) plane have an attack run dive animation, that takes 3 secondish before you are allowed to fire.
3) plane can only make small correction while in attack run and it also has an minimal attack range. so you might fly over your target if you started your attack run too late.
4) the nerf added an 3 secondish telegraph of where your attack is going to land on top of the 3 second dive animation.

For example, before the nerf, once I spot a DD by flying over it, I will circle around, but by the time I circle around with enough distance to make an attack run, I already lost vision of the DD. But I can make an guess of where the DD might be based on its last known movement, so I will try to fly in a direction that allow me hit it on the side. and I need to start an attack run before I can even see the DD due to the above mentioned minimal attack range.

I have gotten really good at this, and I would argue this counts as an skill. If I do everything right, I will spot the DD while in my attack dive and it gives me 0.5 second to make small adjustment and release the rocket just in time to hit it. All of this was decide long before I can see the DD and how successful I am is decided in a mind game between my guess of the DD's movement and the DD player's guess of my movement. If he guess right, I would find myself flying in at the wrong angle doing little damage, if I guess right, I will hit it on the side for full damage. But after the nerf this is impossible, because even if I do all of that correctly, there is still another 3 second delay, and the machine fire telegraph to the DD player of where my rocket is gonna land.

What if the dev decide every shell fired from every ship will show a circle of where its gonna land as soon as you fired it. No one will hit anything, except the most distracted player.

[Banzai]

Comes down to practice. As mentioned, I and many others are doing fine with the rocket planes of all nations. Sure, sometimes you have to leave some fighters to spot the dd while you circle round for the attack if they are playing smart, but only very high stealth DDs will be an issue. And torp bombers are very usable versus DDs if you know what you are doing (and its pretty much obligatory to learn how to do this when playing German CVs as the torps are their only effective weapon vs DDs), with the exception of the single strike Rus ones since their arming time is so long (although they are still good for forcing people out of smoke).

Good luck anyway :)

[Poacher2]

The fact that this thread was raised and with this title says it all, learn to play posts GFY, CC are too weak and unplayable as they just get hammered - well the neptune does. time to uninstall this crap.

[Poacher2]

oh here is the first help vid i found https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36kx6z6HNcc

[christof]

Someone needs to learn their acronyms:

CV (as in this thread): Cruiser with heavier-than-air craft, meaning aircraft carriers.
CC (as you write): Community Contributor, that is people working with WG to produce streams and similar content of their games.
CL (as the Neptune is): Cruiser Light, meaning cruisers with guns of a smaller calibre but higher rate of fire. Often, but not necessarily, more maneuvreable and less armoured than their heavy cruiser counterparts.

[durendal85]

Originally posted by Glorious Comrade:

Originally posted by Banzai:

Sorry, but the above is really not the case. Speaking from experience, rocket planes take a little more skill to use now but a competent CV player will still land hits on a DD with them, and HE bombers, skip bombers and torps are all viable vs DDs as well if you know what you are doing. The only class of plane that its not really worth trying with is AP dive bombers but even then they can get a last hit on a low HP target.

Its also worth noting that Brit CVs have a complete suite of planes that work well versus DDs - literally every plane they have is viable against them and the rocket planes on them didnt get the nerf others did so perform much as they did before. With other nations you will have to lead your target, much like any ship will when firing at something that isnt stationary but as mentioned a half decent CV player will still be landing hits on any target with rockets even with the longer lead time needed now.

A CV is still more than capable of carrying a team, but it takes a little more skill to do now is all.

I an not the best CV player but I think I am a decent CV player, pre - nerf, my CV win rate in ranked was 63% - 70% depending on which CV, UK was the highest as your mentioned, UK have 2 planes that can hunt DD effectively. my highest rank was Gold 7. Now my win rate with CV is below 50%. I feel it is no longer about skill after the nerf.

This is what playing CV against DD feels like now:

If you are an BB and you try to lead your shot against an DD, but here is the catch, there is 3 second delay from you press your mouse to the gun actually firing. and as soon as you fire your shot, an circle will appear on the water to let the DD know roughly where your already fired shells will land. It is like playing rock paper scissor, you already committed to your choice but the other player can react after seeing your commitment.

Consider these points:

1) DDs have high concealment. Meaning often you can not see where the DD is before you make an plane attack run.
2) plane have an attack run dive animation, that takes 3 secondish before you are allowed to fire.
3) plane can only make small correction while in attack run and it also has an minimal attack range. so you might fly over your target if you started your attack run too late.
4) the nerf added an 3 secondish telegraph of where your attack is going to land on top of the 3 second dive animation.

For example, before the nerf, once I spot a DD by flying over it, I will circle around, but by the time I circle around with enough distance to make an attack run, I already lost vision of the DD. But I can make an guess of where the DD might be based on its last known movement, so I will try to fly in a direction that allow me hit it on the side. and I need to start an attack run before I can even see the DD due to the above mentioned minimal attack range.

I have gotten really good at this, and I would argue this counts as an skill. If I do everything right, I will spot the DD while in my attack dive and it gives me 0.5 second to make small adjustment and release the rocket just in time to hit it. All of this was decide long before I can see the DD and how successful I am is decided in a mind game between my guess of the DD's movement and the DD player's guess of my movement. If he guess right, I would find myself flying in at the wrong angle doing little damage, if I guess right, I will hit it on the side for full damage. But after the nerf this is impossible, because even if I do all of that correctly, there is still another 3 second delay, and the machine fire telegraph to the DD player of where my rocket is gonna land.

What if the dev decide every shell fired from every ship will show a circle of where its gonna land as soon as you fired it. No one will hit anything, except the most distracted player.

This is all what I thinking about too. Banzai there is no more only skill playing CVs - now You need a lucky and intuiction against DD's