Minotaur needs a buff...

[Tommygun]

I know lots of people are going to say Minotaur is way op and has an insane fire rate but I rarely do well in her.
Firstly the ship is weak as heck and often gets the ring ripped from her the moment a few shells hit, either deleted or %80 gone. Then my real gripe is the shells. I've just had a game and this is typical of my Minotaur stats, 156 hits, 7 over pens, 54 pens, 30 non pens and 65 ricochets all for a massive 36k of damage. Minotaur does have a great rate of fire but the damage is pathetic, less than my tier 7 New Orleans, the same as my tier 7 Helena. But here's the rub, more than half the shells in nearly all my games do virtually no damage. Bounces and non pens ALWAYS out-weigh hits. Theres a good chance Im just rubbish but also with flimsy armour you also dont want to get too close to enemy ca's and bbs. Any tips?

[Torchfire]

- Unless your target is a broadsiding cruiser at relatively close range or a destroyer, aim for the superstructure.
- Use smoke a LOT to conceal your movement.
- Use hydroacoustics to make sure you don't get torped in smoke.
- Use a commander with skills similar to a DD. CE and LS are extremely good for a Mino. EM, on the other hand, is useless.
- Use signal flags with the repair party bonus.
- Don't forget torpedoes! Mino has second best torps of any tier 10 cruiser, right behind Zao. And can launch them individually.

[Tommygun]

Thnx for the tips, all of which I do (re flags, CE etc). Im more intrigued if anyone using the Mino gets more Penetrations than nons and bounces for any match?

[Donegali]

Mino is best DD!

As Torchfire says, aim for superstructure unless broadside. Your main targets should be cruisers and destroyers. Always stay angled in your smoke, your rate of fire is so great it's easy to get shot at even if they can't target you.

The stats you've quoted makes it sound as if you're aiming too high which will result in a lot of ricochets and non-pens. Also, 156 hits seems very low for a Minotaur. A mino tends to do a lot of smaller damage that that adds up over time.

If you're happy to watch some Youtube, I highly recommend watching some of Flambass' Minotaur videos. They will show you where to aim, and as above, it sounds like you're aiming too low.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=flambass+minotaur

[Sidian]

Originally posted by Tommygun:

I know lots of people are going to say Minotaur is way op and has an insane fire rate but I rarely do well in her.
Firstly the ship is weak as heck and often gets the ring ripped from her the moment a few shells hit, either deleted or %80 gone.

The Minotaur isn't OP in the current meta, but still very very good. Yes, you take a ton of damage, and that's why it's very important to use smokes, islands/cover and concealment properly. But the Minotaur really shines if you can do that.

Originally posted by Tommygun:

Then my real gripe is the shells. I've just had a game and this is typical of my Minotaur stats, 156 hits, 7 over pens, 54 pens, 30 non pens and 65 ricochets all for a massive 36k of damage.

158 hits is very low for a minotaur. That number should be around 200 in bad games (unless you get sunk really early), and 300-600 in good games.
That means, you have to shoot more somehow. You are either too passive and don't have a lot to do, or you are too aggressive and get sunk too early.

When shooting angled ships, shoot at the superstructure. For broadside battleships, aim at the stern, bow or upper belt, not at the superstructure or lower belt armor.

[The Tinman]

For the CV meta Mino works well if the CV is dumb enough to constantly attack you/ships around you. On the other hand, the above-mentioned creates a long-range meta which really hurts ships with low shell velocity. There seems to be a little less radar now, but still rather prevalent. I usually try to park a couple km outside radar, but that means I am quite far away and the damage I do is piddly due to low shell velocity/always angled targets.

My main issue with the Mino is your damage goes to ZERO once people angle enough-and they almost ALWAYS angle away within a few salvos on them.

That's why I love my DM-AP is useable on most everything and hits hard. The HE combined with firerate makes it a decent firestarter against angled targets and great against dds under 12km. The unfortunate reality is that the Mino sucks compared to the Fiji(relative to tier).

[Tommygun]

Wow, 300-600 is a good game? Its that balance between passive and aggressive which I guess I get wrong a lot of the time. Just had what I thought was an alright game (lost tho) 252 hits, 126 pens, 40 non-pens and 86 ricochets. Once again, half the shells do fokall. If anyone else can be arsed please post your target hit breakdown.

[Sidian]

Originally posted by Tommygun:

Just had what I thought was an alright game (lost tho) 252 hits, 126 pens, 40 non-pens and 86 ricochets. Once again, half the shells do fokall. If anyone else can be arsed please post your target hit breakdown.

To be honest, i don't pay attention to the amounts of non-pens and ricochets. In matches where eneies don't give you broadside, you'll get a lot of them, but you simply have to make up for it with the amount of shells you can fire - and always look for opportunities to fire at broadside showing ships.

The amounts of pens aren't listed in the detailed report, so i can't check them. But i can give you a damage breakdown for a few of my minotaur matches since i save the post battle reports every time via screenshots.
They are from 5 matches i had back to back; i just looked for a minotaur match in my screenshot folder and went from there. Since they are in german, here's a short breakdown:
In the screenshot, you can see 5 blocks of 4 rows, each block is one match. The rows are, from top to bottom: Overall damage dealt (torpedoes and flooding included), damage dealt by main guns (shells hit + damage), damage dealt by AP shells (shells hit + damage; it's the same value since Minotaur can only use AP) and shells fired in the match.
High amounts of hits with low damage means: Lots of non-pens and ricochets.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/39u6auo00js4fwa/mino.png?dl=0&raw=1

As you can see, the value is quite inconsistent. That's because it always depends on the enemy team; if they give a lot of broadside, you'll see very high damage numbers at a lower amount of hits. That's just the way it is for the RN cruisers. The current meta isn't doing the ship a favor, either, because everything is so far away thanks to carrier spotting. But you can still do well if you aim accordingly (as i said, when shooting angled ships, shoot at the superstructure; for broadside battleships, aim at the stern, bow or upper belt, not at the superstructure or lower belt armor, and others also gave good tips), and the Mino is a beast versus planes.

[Tommygun]

You can hover your mouse over the shell hits ribbon on the results screen and it shows you a breakdown.

[Sidian]

Originally posted by Tommygun:

You can hover your mouse over the shell hits ribbon on the results screen and it shows you a breakdown.

I didn't know that! Thanks! But it doesn't help for the screenshots i've already taken. :P

[The Tinman]

The upcoming "super light" CLs, Smolensk and Colbert, have a 13mm bow and stern; however the upper belt and deck are 30mm. I think a 30mm(or at least 27mm) upper belt and deck could really help the Mino out in allowing her to push up more to better support dds and feel confident doing so. With this new meta and everything my Mino games have become worse and worse to the point I just sold her because I wasn't having fun in it like I used to.

[Tommygun]

I've taken to playing her not really giving a fig. I buy no flags (I have SI & a perma cammo) and just go for it. You can be careful as heck and get insta deleted so I figure go for it, and I often get insta deleted :) or help out a bit before dying but at least I dont stress as much about it any more. Inshallah!

[Tommygun]

Still finding around 60% of my shots are non pens and ricochets. Coupled with that, almost every shot at me is a citadel regardless of my angling.

[Tommygun]

238 hits 1 OP, 68 PEN, 79 NON PEN, 90 RICOCHET ( I know I need to get closer...but there's the rub.)

380 hits, 6 OP, 129 PEN, 67 NON PEN, 178 RICOCHET

240 hits, 6 OP, 128 PEN, 20 NON PEN, 86 RICOCHET

169 hits, 2 OP, 56 PEN, 55 NON PEN, 56 RICOCHET

[Tommygun]

I've been having a bit more success in the ranked battles. With only 7 ships in ranked it makes staying alive in the Mino a bit easier. I'm less likely to collect some random shell that rips a massive hole in me early and shafts me for the rest of the game.