My new favorite

[arjensmit79]

I have often told everyone here how OP i thought Black is.

That was until i just bought Groningen. What a worthy dutch ship !

Game 1: CV comes at me, gets close enough to see me, so i turn on AA and poof, 12 plane kills and the squadron is gone O.o

Game 2: An enemy DD is positioned where it doesn't have support. I run at it confident i can take the gunfight. Turns out it was 2 DDs. No problem, Groningen mows them both down, dodges the torps thanks to its hydro and lives to tell the tale.

I'm in love. Sorry Black your days are over.

[Nepgear]

Sherman just does the same thing better.

[Jackson]

I would much rather play Black than Sherman. I really dislike Sherman. It's a stupid ship that's too modern for the game and it's just annoying to play. For AA however, it might be better. I've played it so little I can't say. I know it does have good AA though.

Gron is awesome... but it's tough to carry in that boat. If it's you vs a BB at the end, with no torps you're toast unless he's a potato. Same vs cruiser.

[Jaynoble55]

Never a fan of Sherman myself. Its powerful, no doubt, but just not my thing. Glad you have found a DD you like!

[Ace42]

Originally posted by arjensmit79:

I have often told everyone here how OP i thought Black is.

That was until i just bought Groningen. What a worthy dutch ship .

Yep, Grog/Fries is a filth boat.

[AK]

Never understood the Black hype.. only trick is well-known and once their radar is gone the threat is greatly reduced. Very often you can even "capture" its smoke, because it is easily outgunned and has no hydro. As the Groningen/Sherman it relies a bit too much on the smoke.. If you put it down in a bad spot or need it as an escape you temporarily lost a lot of game impact. When they are farming in smoke I admit they are untouchable due to the hydro but at least you can blindfire them easily or force them out with torps.
Thats why I take a Jutland/Daring/Z-42 any day, over the long-smokers.

[christof]

Originally posted by Nepgear:

Sherman just does the same thing better.

Groningen is the better credit grinder though, at the very least.

[Blue]

Do people still think the black is massively overpowered even now we have many DD with radar?

[Ace42]

Originally posted by RET_DUST:

Do people still think the black is massively overpowered even now we have many DD with radar?

The short-duration radar on Gdansk line harms it given how much is wasted with the render-in delay; and although the extended range on Gdansk line partially offsets their higher surface detection radii, it still pushes stuff further away when the trap happens.

Lack of smoke on Pan-Asians,Småland, Ragnar means no radar-trapping at all.

So its niche has been nibbled at, but it's still relatively unique.

[Blue]

Cool. Probably going to grab one some day. Looks like a fun and unique ship even now.

[Elesh Norn]

I never considered the black as an OP ship.
Sure, it has radar, but that´s pretty much it - if you keep your distance, it gunning you down will be pretty unlikely even if you are in radar range.
Better let it cap and try again later or trop the smoke.

I fear the Benham a lot more, if we talk about US dds.

[arjensmit79]

Originally posted by Elesh Norn:

I fear the Benham a lot more, if we talk about US dds.

Sounds like a BB perspective. Not DD.

Why would a DD fear another DD with low DPM(20/31), low HP(20/31), average conceal. (#16/31) Its totally not at all on the list of DD's to fear.

[Jackson]

Originally posted by arjensmit79:

Originally posted by Elesh Norn:

I fear the Benham a lot more, if we talk about US dds.

Sounds like a BB perspective. Not DD.

Why would a DD fear another DD with low DPM(20/31), low HP(20/31), average conceal. (#16/31) Its totally not at all on the list of DD's to fear.

It's the most winningest DD at T9. It's substantially better than anything else. One might call it... overpowered. Sure, there's some DD's that'll outmatch it, but overall it has no comparison.

[Elesh Norn]

Originally posted by arjensmit79:

Sounds like a BB perspective. Not DD.

Why would a DD fear another DD with low DPM(20/31), low HP(20/31), average conceal. (#16/31) Its totally not at all on the list of DD's to fear.

Well... it has one of the highest torps / min in the game, only second to a cv and just a tad better than Karl Johan.

Torps are just coming from everywhere in an endless strom.
Doesn´t matter if you are BB, CA or DD - the chance to take an unlucky hit are high with torps that do decent damge.

[Hiei]

You're looking at gun DPM not torpedo DPM
Benham has 4 torp launchers, 2 on each side and they only take about 65~ secs reload
It's not sold anymore for a reason.

So yeah in a gun battle it may be weaker, but the moment you stop to smoke farm a Benham will till your smoke screen with so many fish you'll think it's lent.

Black and Radar/smoke DDs are more...annoying than actually good.
They're basically "Hey I'm just going to annoyingly reset you" but don't offer much to actually put the hurt on people.
Black does have a nice supply of torps but Benham's reload can get down to about 30 seconds at times which means a lot of torp soup.

Black is no doubt good, but if it were actually broken or even too popular it'd have been removed long ago.
In fact it used to be Steel, then was changed to coal later. I think there was a small nerf, but the fact is it wasn't a popular steel ship suggests it lacks something.

[Jackson]

The small nerf was the decrease of the radar from 22 to 19 seconds.