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Discussions Rules and Guidelines
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The shotgunning nerf was introduced because it was trivially easy for a sub to approach targets completely undetected, surface at point-blank range with zero warning to unleash a devastating salvo of torpedoes that are completely undodgeable, and to then escape retaliation to repeat this ad nauseum.
It was the outright most broken aspect of the class; and it's an element that can still be performed by competent players executing the same sort of strikes, but releasing untelegraphed torps from a suitable (and a bit fairer) distance (~4km, more or less depending on target's movement and your safety from hydro).
Even after the shotgunning nerf, subs are arguably the most impactful class in the game.
Subs never needed a get-out-of-jail-free / uno reverse card that let them turn their catastrophic misplays into easy kills on the pursuers who were correctly trying to punish the sub's misplays.
If you're struggling with making the class work, link some replays (game makes them automatically and stores them in its Replays subfolder; upload them to ReplaysWoWS.com ) and ask for advice. You do not require broken mechanics to make the class work.
Class basics can be found below - players who are following those precepts need not rely on the crutch that was the old shotgunning behaviour:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/552990/discussions/0/614286608894599267/#c614286608894600601
https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/general-news/changes-to-submarines-part-2/?_gl=1*oijurc*_gcl_au*MTYzNTI3MTcyNi4xNzQ1ODY1NzIyLjE0MDEzOTg3NjkuMTc0NjM1NDE5MS4xNzQ2MzU0MTkx*_ga*ODYzOTQwMDMuMTc0NTg2NTcyMw..*_ga_BWRKLL4HR5*MTc0NjQxNjExOS41LjEuMTc0NjQzOTQyMi41NC4wLjA.
They did it in order to combat "shotgunning" by subs.
p.s. Also please avoid using such wording in Steam Forums, you aren't alone you know, there are youngsters in here
so a sub player plays his part correctly gets point blank at a bb or aircraft carrier which have instant call in dept charges that do not care about line of sight and are faster recharging than torpedo's and hes punished for it? never mind the fact a bb can face tank the first volley of torps now and just sit above a sub and be fine.
going to be honest shotgunning seems like a punishment for players not playing against the assassin class correctly.
not to mention some bb's can call in dept charges for 8 km away. cards seem stacked against subs especially if its up tiered.
The only way carriers can hammer on them is if they ping the carrier letting it know where they are - or become spotted another way.
The submarine's main role in this game is to counterplay enemy scouts - the submarines and the DDs.
Because they're the biggest obstacle to you using your stealth to contest objectives; because their vision represents the biggest threat to your teammates; because their vision-game limits your ability to leverage your stealth; and because if you're neglecting your vision-game in order to go on wild goose chases against the enemy back line, you're hobbling your own teammates' ability to generate their own battle impact.
Your power fantasy for the class might be that you get to just sail around murdering helpless battleships like it's a single-player experience; but that's not what the game is, it's not how it works, and it's not an acceptable design philosophy.
Wasting time sailing to the opposite side of the map just to kill some battleships and CVs because they're big lumbering targets isn't good play; messing up your strikes so badly that you can't even kill them from ~4km away is not "playing your part correctly".
Having a literally foolproof uncounterable technique to freely murder opponents who are playing correctly is not appropriate game design - no matter how much you want to pretend it was some big-brain super-challenging thing to do.
Depth charges rely on the submarine player screwing up and getting himself detected.
If the only counterplay to a sub is having the sub do the *one thing he mustn't do in order to shotgun*, you have no counterplay at all.
Position correctly, release from periscope depth at 4km away without telegraphing your strike (no pings or getting yourself detected with hydro or whatever), you'll deal the same damage you did before the shotgunning nerf. And if you execute the strike properly - ideally at his broadside - he's still not going to be dodging them in time to make any difference.
Drivel. A submarine being able to completely ignore getting detected by hydro or sub survveillance, be totally immune to a DD's weapons, and then being able to just surface and shotgun the DD at point-blank while the DD is trying to get into position to release depth charges is not an example of the DD playing incorrectly.
It's an example of the shotgunning mechanic allowing the sub to completely screw up every single element of his stealth, and STILL have an uncounterable advantage over the DD trying to punish him.
And subs in this game are a class that has to provide vision and contest objectives to be credit to team - not watch team lose the game while they're off glory-hunting the backline for easy free kills.
Also Air borne depth charges aren't instant. They take over 10 seconds to deploy and are very rng based.
Having full torp damage before someone can even swing their camera over and press the button then be well on your way is a pretty broken way of doing stuff. It was also a crutch for people who weren't good at the game (At all) to play carelessly and do something low skill and high reward.
First the context: As others here have indicated. The game is a team game. The Battle ships take position and force the enemy cruisers to stay back and behind their islands or be deleted. The cruisers try to attack the enemy DD's without getting deleted by their battleships. The DD's try to contcol the capture points and function as the eyes for the bigger ships, spotting enemies that are hiding either outside their concealment range and/or behind islands. The DD's fight eachother with the backing of their teams. The DD who has the most backing from his team can play the most aggressive and is very likely to win a gunfight. Killing the enemy DD is the first step to victory. If a team manages to kill the enemy DD, that flank is most likely won for the team as their DD now has free reight to control the cap, torpedo the enemy big ships and spot them while his bigger allies can remain unseen to the enemy.
Submarines are basically the next step beyond DD's. They aren't directly a hard counter to DD's as it is extremely hard for a sub to actually hit a half competent DD. But he can do a lot without needing to hit him. Most importantly, he can use his superior concealment to spot the DD while being at the surface and not being spotted himself. When the DD, who undoubtetly has a rough idea of whereabout you are, comes your direction to close to concealment gap, you submerge. While you are doing this, you do not give away your position by stupidly pinging targets or firing torpedos that aren't going to hit target anyway.
To learn this part of the game, i think a sub player should first learn to play DD's to some degree. You need to be aware of your concealment range as well as that of your opponents as well as all the hydro's and radar's available on the enemy team. Because while you have the advantage of superior concealment compared to that enemy DD, being spotted even shortly is even more dangerous for the sub. Its basically higher risk, higher reward play against the DD.
If you want to hit the enemy DD with your torps you need to again understand the situation from the DD's perspective. It is super for the DD to dodge your torps when he is coming at you, or sailing perpendicular to you with the possibility of turning in towards you . It is very hard for the DD to dodge your torpedos when he is sailing away from you or perpendicular and being able only to turn out away from you.
Since firing torps and pinging both come at the cost of giving away your position, you shouldn't be doing it haphazardly. You need to first create the situation where you actually have a good chance to land a hit. One aspect of doing that is trying to lure the enemy DD into overextending and not over extending yourself. When he is so close to your allies that turning into your direction means he will be spotted, then he cannot turn your direction and thus you are in a favorite position to hit him. Now in all honesty, your team plays a role here much more importantly than the vast majority of them realize. If your allies big ships are closer to the cap than your enemies ships, even just 1-2km, that means the enemy DD who's brain is hardwired to fight for the cap point will automatically be more likely to over extend than you and your DD. And the DD who is on your side of course also plays a big role in the luring the enemy DD to over extend. So yes, if your team is a bunch of unorganized idiots it will be hard to play this game effectively.
So while you are mixing yourself into this DD fight over the cap that doesn't mean you can't be attacking any BB's or cruisers. BB's, if they are not dimwitted lemmings, will try to position themselves far apart from eachother, so they will not be straight on the middle of the enemy flank, behind that cap and its DD, but they will be on the sides of the flank, maybe even feeling brave and pushing quite forward on that side. In that case you can very well go and torp them to oblivion. They have basically 2 modes of play: Either they will be keeping motion, sailing towards the enemy, using island cover to turn around and then kite away and do that over and over again, or they will be sitting more or less still in a good position where they are angled to your allied battle ships. You need to understand these patterns so you can predict where a battleship is going. If they are sitting still, they are of course sitting ducks for you and you will easily land every single torp you aim at them because they are too slow to make speed to dodge. If they are moving, just like with the DD's, it is easy for them to dodge when they come at you, but hard to dodge when they sail away from you. So you predict where they are going to turn, position yourself so you can target them there, wait for the turn to start, then fire the torps, then ping. Now if you do this at the start of their turn, they have the option to turn back the rudder, aborting the turn and remaining broadside to your team so they can dodge your torps, but then your allied BB's will obliterate him for being broadside. If you they complete their turn, they will not dodge your torps.
That's the exact one they are mentioning it in Discord, thanks