Wow carriers are so bad

[Chickens]

I am giving the game another try after a long break. I used to love the old RTS carriers. They were challenging to play, and sometimes you'd just get all your fighters shot down, but you could also do very well when the stars aligned. The arcade rework has made carriers far less effective. It's extremely difficult to hit destroyers or cruisers that are taking evasive action, and the number of sorties you can do are now much lower. Also, it takes forever to launch all your munitions, so you're loitering over AAA far longer just getting all your fighters shot down all the time. Instead of getting 4 or 5 torpedoes off at once, you might get 2 off before most of your flight gets shot down. Yet the torpedoes still do the nerfed carrier damage as opposed to the destroyer damage. If you're really lucky, you'll get a fire or flood that doesn't get immediately repaired, but if not you'll just do pinprick damage. Adding all that up, I'm doing about 1/6 the damage I used to with the RTS carriers. Also, it's just not fun at all flying across the map over and over and over. There's also not too much carrier vs carrier action because the AAA is so strong, there's not much point in wasting all your fighters to moderately damage the enemy carrier. So really, you're just a glorified spotter for your team that otherwise can't do much.

This is really a terrible rework. I don't know what they were thinking.

[Jackson]

I'll tell you what they were thinking!

1: RTS carriers had too wide a spread between good players and poor players. Carriers had too much swing over the battle. One really good CV player could almost always carry the whole battle against a team with a poor CV player. That needed addressing. Cross dropping needed a nerf. It was too easy to pull off before for reasonably good players.

2: Almost no one played or enjoyed carriers. Let's be real - if you wanted to play an RTS game, this wasn't a good one.

After the rework, a lot more players played and enjoyed carriers. This is the #1 thing and the reason why the rework was considered a success.

Also, since you can control only one squadron at a time it's more difficult to overwhelm enemy players quickly which translates to less toxicity. WG doesn't want CV's to be able to knock out one player after another quickly which was easier before - particularly for good players. Now most CV's won't concentrate one player for too long but will still get a decent amount of damage.

[christof]

They are quite a bit more than a glorified spotter. If you look at average damage done, CVs and BBs share the top place. The current top 10 ships in that category are 5 BBs, 4 CVs and one cruiser.

Also you are far less likely to be deplaned since the rework, meaning that average players and below will actually get a lot more sorties out over a full battle than they did/would have in the old system.
That was the main reason for the rework, as a matter of fact: Make the class more approachable for the average player so that more people would play it. And it very much succeeded in that.

Finally I have to say that I'm very much not a good CV player. And I still do not have any trouble hitting cruisers. With DDs it depends on what planes I have at the time. But that as well is not that hard with most of them.

[Hiei]

"The number of sorties you can do are now much lower. Also, it takes forever to launch all your munitions, "

I've never read something so incorrect in my life.
Well except people thinking the earth was flat and moon landing faked.

[R[e]venge®-uk*]

Why do these people who post have hidden accounts and do not post an IGN ??
At least then we can see your pre rework and current rework stats ?

[Rogue]

I have 3 low level, they just sit there because the are above T5 for events.

RTS was the best format hands down.

[Hiei]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Rogue:

I have 3 low level, they just sit there because the are above T5 for events.

RTS was the best format hands down.

The reason the rework happened was because it wasn't very popular and was very unforgiving.

The skill gap between good players and bad players was so bad that if you weren't very good with CV, you were basically an exp farm because you'd lose your planes and then be absolutely useless for the rest of the match.

On the other hand, a CV could cross drop and could control multiple squads all at the same time, if the enemy CV was deplaned, it was a much bigger problem than it is now.

Also CVs are a bit more popular and easier to learn for most people.

[Banzai]

The reworked version of CVs has been in game for far longer than the RTS mode existed. The reasons the rework happened have been listed above and discussed at length previously so seems little point in repeating them apart from to say that CVs average slightly more damage post rework than they did in the RTS days, so its certainly not a case of them being nerfed. They are also the best counter to DDs, and not only due to spotting. Competent CV players will ruin a DDs day.

If you are doing "1/6 of the damage you got in RTS" then thats due to you not having learned how to play this sort of CV yet plus the fact that if you have been away for 6 years you plainly are going to be out of practice.

[Totally Innocent Chatbot]

Fun fact: the red puffs of cotton candy are not power-ups. Try avoiding them if you find yourself losing your entire squadron in the time it takes to do one attack run.

[arjensmit79]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Jackson:

2: Almost no one played or enjoyed carriers. Let's be real - if you wanted to play an RTS game, this wasn't a good one.

Gotta say i loved playing them. But thats probably because i like winning and i'd always beat my enemy CV player. I don't recall ever failing to deplane them

And thats indeed why it's good that its fixed. I wasn't even some wonder player with lots of experience or anything. All i did was use both of my 2 braincells and make sure i'd always outnumber the enemy in plane vs plane battles. Heck i couldn't even effectively crossdrop and i had 75% winrate.

[whoizz]

they have decided to limit the CV ability to win matches almost by their own.. which was bad in terms of "ships", since a Carrier should be the total threat, however, it makes sense in terms of balance when some were able to really use and control the squadrons correctly.

what we have now is a way dumber version of their initial rework, where timings were quicker and aiming was also quicker.. for all squadron types, the initial rework featured attack planes being able to lock and shoot in no time, which again.. any decent player could obliterate the silly destroyer out of position, all you had to do was to fly over and press the a button when they were in your target.. and it was almost a hit-scan shot, and nothing in the game is hit-scan.

I find the balance now better than before, CVs who can actually play correctly still can have impact, limited now by how well the enemy team play.. on the downside, when the enemy team knows how to play versus a CV, you as CV will have extremely little impact, as smarter ranked adversaries will stack AA and you simply cannot punish any ship without risking a total deplane.. still, even as a CV player, I reckon they added prediction and that is fine, it works the same for all ships - there is an existing evading time, however, they should at least fix some squadrons, either attack planes or bombers.. they should be quicker.. as a destroyer, no CV can in fact hit me, being a CV player I know the planes of almost all carriers and I know the angles and times, and it's far to easy to escape all strikes.. it became hard to punish alone destroyers, since if they are not horrible, they will dodge almost 90% if not 100% of your attacks.. and I tell you this because I can easily avoid, even not being a main destroyer player.

still would be good to have a mix of the RTS way when several squadrons could be in the air and the new way, we still have to control the planes third person and shoot - and cycle them, so we could do several strikes in a couple minutes, different from lifting one squadron at time... but, the baddies would cry a river and maybe this is why they decided for the way we currently have.

[Ace42]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von whoizz:

they have decided to limit the CV ability to win matches almost by their own.

Best CV players win 75% of their matches - higher than any of the other classes AFAIK.

And they do that solo-queueing without expecting their teammates to follow *your* self-important and delusional misrules.

as a destroyer, no CV can in fact hit me,

That's because most of the playerbase is equally as bad as you. Negative winrate players who haven't learned to play.

It's pretty much impossible to evade a properly executed corkscrew HE Divebomber strike:
https://youtu.be/fJYTfZvJ_G8

it became hard to punish alone destroyers, since if they are not horrible, they will dodge almost 90% if not 100% of your attacks.. and I tell you this because I can easily avoid, even not being a main destroyer player.

L2P issue. If you spent more time soliciting the advice of your betters instead of insulting them and insisting that you know better, you'd not be failing quite so many strikes on destroyers.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Chickens:

It's extremely difficult to hit destroyers or cruisers that are taking evasive action,

Skill issue.

Start up a training room > ST Armor Test Map. Spawn a load of DD bots that can move but have no ammo. Set your hull to make big circles so they follow and give you moving targets.

Practice striking them with different munitions until you're landing consistent chip damage every strike. That chip damage is enough to win more matches than you lose, because DDs are low-healthpool, high value targets.

Munitions preference is usually: HE Divebombers > HE Skip / Level Bombers > HE Rockets / Torps > AP.
Some CVs mix that up a bit (RN have particularly good rocket planes with particularly short machinegun times; Skip bombs can vary in efficiency a bit depending on number of skips, and were due for a nerf on dropping them straight down on DDs heads; etc, etc) but that's the general rule of thumb.

Loads of cruisers will get their broadsides nuked by AP rockets from the Aquila or KM tech tree, and are too cumbersome to evade the particularly short machinegun times.

AP bombs will similarly devastate a lot of cruisers, depending on armour vs the bomb in question (overpens vs not reaching citadel); those that overpen cruisers tons will often cit battleships and superheavy cruisers instead.

CVs are the most impactful class in the game, and the idea that on top of this raw ability to dictate how a match plays out - they should also just get to face-roll all the other players in the game for free with huge alpha damage is laughable.

[Sawblade Shieldslave]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Chickens:

I am giving the game another try after a long break. I used to love the old RTS carriers. They were challenging to play, and sometimes you'd just get all your fighters shot down, but you could also do very well when the stars aligned. The arcade rework has made carriers far less effective. It's extremely difficult to hit destroyers or cruisers that are taking evasive action, and the number of sorties you can do are now much lower. Also, it takes forever to launch all your munitions, so you're loitering over AAA far longer just getting all your fighters shot down all the time. Instead of getting 4 or 5 torpedoes off at once, you might get 2 off before most of your flight gets shot down. Yet the torpedoes still do the nerfed carrier damage as opposed to the destroyer damage. If you're really lucky, you'll get a fire or flood that doesn't get immediately repaired, but if not you'll just do pinprick damage. Adding all that up, I'm doing about 1/6 the damage I used to with the RTS carriers. Also, it's just not fun at all flying across the map over and over and over. There's also not too much carrier vs carrier action because the AAA is so strong, there's not much point in wasting all your fighters to moderately damage the enemy carrier. So really, you're just a glorified spotter for your team that otherwise can't do much.

This is really a terrible rework. I don't know what they were thinking.

can only agree with you, RTS carriers >>>>>

[whoizz]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ace42:

L2P issue. If you spent more time soliciting the advice of your betters instead of insulting them and insisting that you know better, you'd not be failing quite so many strikes on destroyers.

I made a statement and those do not require your opinion.. try to understand, to someone like me, you don't actually exist.. you are irrelevant. I understand somehow you want validation, but really, I'm not here to feed an argument with you or any of the other ones I consider nothing but idiots who also are replying here in this thread.

My comments are to the OP, and the OP can either read them or not.. but in no manner they are here for someone like you to read, I don't care about you and I would never go outside my way to argue with a hobo on the street.. it's just illogical.

and that is final stop.

[Ace42]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von whoizz:

I made a statement and those do not require your opinion.

I stated facts, not opinions. To correct your erroneous statements.

This is necessary, because the alternative is you encouraging other players to be as bad as you are - and thus causing them to whine like you do when they inevitably perform as poorly as you do.

My comments are to the OP,

The community deserves better than your misinformation.

[Jackson]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von whoizz:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ace42:

L2P issue. If you spent more time soliciting the advice of your betters instead of insulting them and insisting that you know better, you'd not be failing quite so many strikes on destroyers.

I made a statement and those do not require your opinion.. try to understand, to someone like me, you don't actually exist.. you are irrelevant. I understand somehow you want validation, but really, I'm not here to feed an argument with you or any of the other ones I consider nothing but idiots who also are replying here in this thread.

My comments are to the OP, and the OP can either read them or not.. but in no manner they are here for someone like you to read, I don't care about you and I would never go outside my way to argue with a hobo on the street.. it's just illogical.

and that is final stop.

Sorry, it's a public forum. If you don't want to engage with the public, it's probably not the place to hold A-B conversations. Anyone can reply or comment. The other option is to send a friend request and talk to said person in private.