The point behind such a "grinding" grind?

[Ty Tanium]

Afternoon,
After an online session with my brother yesterday afternoon we started pondering the actual point behind such a grind gap between T6 and T7/8 ships.

In a recent post the following observation was made by Ace42;

["For all the factually incorrect criticisms people have of +/-2mm, or P2Win, etc, etc - I'm amazed that people seem to miss the one example of a pretty deliberate attempt to institute exactly those things.

I mean, yeah the P2Win is disguised behind the "it's pay to progress" conventional credit grind; plus everyone who is in a position to be disgusted by the change also being in a position to just get the ships and play them (myself included in that demographic) thanks to benefitting from rampant inflation."]

Okay, we all know that this game, like hundreds of other MMORTS/RPG games, is designed to make money... they're designed to get you to a point where, in sheer frustration, you claw the credit card out. Problem is that I would suggest the majority of those playing don't have that luxury so why make the later tier vessels so difficult to get by playing?

Wouldn't that start to drive people away from the game in frustration rather than have them continue enjoying the game WITH the P2Play option always available if they're able?

I think that a review of the "Grind gaps" between higher tier ships needs to be done.
imho, as always.
Cheers,
T.

[Neneko]

The grind from T5-8 is kinda long for new players but help you learn the game because T9-10-11 are very unforgiving. You can P2W to rush to T10 but you'll just make you and your teammate feel miserable.

[Ace42]

Uh - the grind is faster than ever before.

The whole point of my post was that T11s were shoe-horned into the game cynically to combat the grind acceleration - with their hefty price-tag and running costs being an example of the inflation this grind-acceleration causes.

When I said I think they shouldn't be in the game at all, I did *not* mean that a bunch of people who are struggling to progress in mid-tier ships should all get to play them super-easily.
I meant no-one should be playing them.

The game gifts economic boosters to F2Pers *all the time*.
This xmas I got well over a month's worth of premium time, dozens of stacks of blue boosters, and a dozen individual red boosters all for free.

In Asym I managed to grind out the entire Haragumo line in like 3 days of fairly lazy play to cash out my RB points using that entirely free premium time and entirely free blue boosters.

Between Asym and ops grinding dockyard missions out (every single stage of which so far has given F2Pers the same free economic bonuses that I've gotten), I've generated enough FXP over the holiday period to reset the entire haragumo line nearly 3x over.

I've generated enough credits to unlock Kunming, I'm halfway to getting J Humphries, *and* I had to spend ~7 million credits multiple times over putting upgrades onto the ships I got from crates - some of which also dropped for free from crates or were got via other freebies the game gave me (Druid for RBP, for example).

Free-to-players don't need to worry about the economy if they just keep playing - the game throws more and more stuff at you as you go. Free tracks on the battlepass; free elements of the Dockyard; free coal to get free T9 premium ships to print credits like they're going out of fashion.

And they certainly don't need to worry about superships - they're not the point of the game, and never were. They're there to put a dumb sticking plaster on an economy broken by being *too generous* to F2Pers & premium players alike.

It's nice collecting more ships, having more variety, seeing more of the game - and a bigger collection in port does mean better rewards anniversary and xmas events.

*But* if you don't enjoy playing some of the fun ships in the mid-tiers, there's zero point in trying to rush to the top tiers - you're just not going to find the game suddenly changes and becomes a different animal.
Being top-tier isn't an i-win button: +/-2mm is an excuse bad players use for not learning the game, it isn't a significant handicap to performance.

That said, T9 tech tree has historically had some clunkers in it - FatFluffyPenguin did a recent video on Alaska, with his thesis being "It's not T9.5; it's what T9s should be. The problem's really that T9 cruisers are basically "T8 with the upgrade slot and a heal" - see Seattle for an obvious example.

But, Saint Louis and Buffalo are two examples of T9s getting a buff to seemingly address the "roadblock T9s" issue, so hard to say if that's still a design concern.
FDG is way better than it was back in the day (USN dispersion now, faster reload on the 406mm, benefits from the CO skill rework for secondaries, etc).

Ditto for the slated buffs in the dev blog for premiums the likes of Hizen and Marco Polo - it's something that there is at least *some* movement to address, and it ISN'T as big a deal as it might sound.
I think T9 is my most played tier, and I have no trouble performing in it.

[~T~D~]

It will take you YEARS to progress a few tech trees.

They should make it easier, and redo the nerf to silver earnings.

Pre Asym was fine, but Streamers was like ZOMG KEK we made millions, well guess what I'm a whale and silver is still the only thing i lack on a daily basis. "Win" Premium in crates well guess what to have every ship up and running you need aPPROX 10mill silver.

Each game i play I make from 200k to 1mill it's still not enough.

[Ace42]

Publicado originalmente por ~T~D~:

It will take you YEARS to progress a few tech trees.

... 3 days to grind out Haragumo line in asyms + Ops using just the premium time I got free from Xmas and the blue boosters I got free from Xmas.

But hey, you're only out by a factor of 100 or more.

I really don't understand what it is you get out of coming to the forum day in and day out to bad-mouth the game with takes so inaccurate that it would be the difference between you taking a paracetemol for a headache, and getting your stomach pumped to prevent liver failure.

Each game i play I make from 200k to 1mill it's still not enough.

I assume that's how much you're earning, rather than what you're "making".
Because 1mil profit per game is plenty unless you're wasting Red boosters, and will have you grinding stuff out absurdly fast.

Also a massive range. 250k profit represents solid reasonable progress, especially if you're not availing yourself of the various economic advantages available. 250k as raw earning represents substandard performance, depending on type and tier.

[~T~D~]

Publicado originalmente por Ace42:

Publicado originalmente por ~T~D~:

It will take you YEARS to progress a few tech trees.

... 3 days to grind out Haragumo line in asyms + Ops using just the premium time I got free from Xmas and the blue boosters I got free from Xmas.

But hey, you're only out by a factor of 100 or more.

I really don't understand what it is you get out of coming to the forum day in and day out to bad-mouth the game with takes so inaccurate that it would be the difference between you taking a paracetemol for a headache, and getting your stomach pumped to prevent liver failure.

Each game i play I make from 200k to 1mill it's still not enough.

I assume that's how much you're earning, rather than what you're "making".
Because 1mil profit per game is plenty unless you're wasting Red boosters, and will have you grinding stuff out absurdly fast.

Also a massive range. 250k profit represents solid reasonable progress, especially if you're not availing yourself of the various economic advantages available. 250k as raw earning represents substandard performance, depending on type and tier.

Because I want it to do better - wth u think we complain for?

And because you grind as line of previous boosters and money spent does not answer the OP point nor mine.

[Ace42]

Publicado originalmente por ~T~D~:

Because I want it to do better - wth u think we complain for?

In your case, because you're bad at the game - but can't accept your failings, so you make up a load of exaggerated or unreasonable complaints to justify your frustraiton.

And because you grind as line of previous boosters and money spent does not answer the OP point nor mine.

You don't need to have previously used boosters or have spent money to get the free rewards from either the battle pass or the dockyard; or daily logins; or any of the other totally free rewards the game gives absolutely everyone totally free for doing nothing.

As I clearly said.

[~T~D~]

Stay on topic

[VagabondSkies]

I found the grind for t6 to t7 to feel like the first big gap. There are enough things you can earn in game to ease the grind a little among other things. I personally have no intention of grinding for ship past T7 due to the servicing costs of those ship. Just recently I got a T8 Battleship for free as part of their Christmas update. I started playing again only 3 or 4 days ago and as of today I managed to get 26 days of premium since starting again.

[Ace42]

Publicado originalmente por ~T~D~:

Stay on topic

Buddy, I was quoted verbatim - by name - in the very first post in the thread.

Pointing out the countable objective fact that the grind is quicker than ever - to the extent where F2Pers can grind out a Tier 10 line within a week if they grab the freebies and make good use of asym - is on topic.

You making up specious lies that a 3-day-grind takes over a year is much closer to being off-topic, in that it is overt misinformation you put out just to feel better about yourself, to the detriment of the discussion.

[Drunem]

i have a 8 hours job and a child. i need one week for t5 to t10. it has taken 2 months from starting the game to get all german t5-t10 techtree ships including t11. so what the hell are you doing that you need years for them?

[~T~D~]

Publicado originalmente por Drunem:

i have a 8 hours job and a child. i need one week for t5 to t10. it has taken 2 months from starting the game to get all german t5-t10 techtree ships including t11. so what the hell are you doing that you need years for them?

4200 Hours in the game.........

[Ace42]

Publicado originalmente por ~T~D~:

4200 Hours in the game.........

And in all that time you've managed to achieve less than Drunem manages while he's waiting for the weather to pick up a bit?

Yeah, you're right, clearly the problem is the game and not you.

[~T~D~]

Publicado originalmente por Ace42:

Publicado originalmente por ~T~D~:

4200 Hours in the game.........

And in all that time you've managed to achieve less than Drunem manages while he's waiting for the weather to pick up a bit?

Yeah, you're right, clearly the problem is the game and not you.

Can you stay on topic,

WE ARE DISCUSSING NEW PLAYERS AND NOT ME HERE

[Ace42]

Publicado originalmente por ~T~D~:

Can you stay on topic,

WE ARE DISCUSSING NEW PLAYERS AND NOT ME HERE

There is no way to give new players an accurate picture of what the grind should be like without people like Drunem accurately pointing out that multiple T10 lines can be ground out in a couple of months; instead of the "years" you insisted.

Quit making up ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ just so you can get your rocks off lying about the game, and people won't have to provide the facts that contradict you.

[~T~D~]

Publicado originalmente por Ace42:

Publicado originalmente por ~T~D~:

Can you stay on topic,

WE ARE DISCUSSING NEW PLAYERS AND NOT ME HERE

There is no way to give new players an accurate picture of what the grind should be like without people like Drunem accurately pointing out that multiple T10 lines can be ground out in a couple of months; instead of the "years" you insisted.

Quit making up ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ just so you can get your rocks off lying about the game, and people won't have to provide the facts that contradict you.

If new players reply how it is for them it will be, - but you keep on writing Copy Pasted stuff, Write a book instead maybe someone will buy it.