why are people crying about Libertad line being OP but give paid OP ships like Musashi or Alaska a pass?

[Doctor Dank]

is it because libertad is as anti-p2w as it can get? and p2w defenders hate them for turning their auto-win ship no longer auto-win?

y'all should have let cesare get nerfed to tier 6, without things like musashi, we wouldnt need a los andes to give non-whales a chance

[~T~D~]

How are they OP?

[Doctor Dank]

Yeah but people gave musashi a pass years before Libertad came out, it was basically an auto win when it first came out and no one gave a ♥♥♥♥, same applies to Alaska and Georgia

Meanwhile Los Andes came out for a week and ppl already wants it gone

Or you know, the countless people that raged at WG wanting to nerf Cesare, and the fallout made WG interpret it as "pay to win ♥♥♥♥♥ want pay to win and kill the game, but we can't nerf it or the game will die even faster"

[Banzai]

Originally posted by Doctor Dank:

is it because libertad is as anti-p2w as it can get? and p2w defenders hate them for turning their auto-win ship no longer auto-win?

y'all should have let cesare get nerfed to tier 6, without things like musashi, we wouldnt need a los andes to give non-whales a chance

Its not a case of people "defending p2w" (and p2w really isnt a thing by the way) its a question of balance and whats good for the game.

A lot of recent lines have been pretty balanced but the PanAm BBs are overly strong. Thats just a fact. They are fun, they are powerful, but they are also allow even the weakest players to rack up large damage numbers via their automated secondarys. I was watching a popular streamer the other day who commented he could just hold W and go and make a cup of coffee and return to find he had dealt 100k+ without even firing his guns. And you know what, he was exaggerating but the principle behind the exaggeration was correct.

And honestly, Alaska and Mushashi are both good. They are hardly "auto win" though.

[Banzai]

Originally posted by Doctor Dank:

Yeah but people gave musashi a pass years before Libertad came out, it was basically an auto win when it first came out and no one gave a ♥♥♥♥, same applies to Alaska and Georgia

Meanwhile Los Andes came out for a week and ppl already wants it gone

Or you know, the countless people that raged at WG wanting to nerf Cesare, and the fallout made WG interpret it as "pay to win ♥♥♥♥♥ want pay to win and kill the game, but we can't nerf it or the game will die even faster"

There is no such thing as an "autowin" ship. Musashi is fine but doesnt qualify. Unless you can show me a load of people with a solo WR in the 90%s in it (since thats surely the definition of autowin)? Alaska has deeply average overall stats and Georgia sits way down towards the bottom of the top 10 tier 9s.

Mind the language as well please.

[Doctor Dank]

Originally posted by Banzai:

Originally posted by Doctor Dank:

Yeah but people gave musashi a pass years before Libertad came out, it was basically an auto win when it first came out and no one gave a ♥♥♥♥, same applies to Alaska and Georgia

Meanwhile Los Andes came out for a week and ppl already wants it gone

Or you know, the countless people that raged at WG wanting to nerf Cesare, and the fallout made WG interpret it as "pay to win ♥♥♥♥♥ want pay to win and kill the game, but we can't nerf it or the game will die even faster"

There is no such thing as an "autowin" ship. Musashi is fine but doesnt qualify. Unless you can show me someone with a WR in the 90%s (since thats surely the definition of autowin)? Alaska has deeply average overall stats and Georgia sits way down towards the bottom of the top 10 tier 9s.

Mind the language as well please.

I did come across a lot of players who seemingly had it unicum stats, but on a closer inspection they only achieved it by playing nothing but overpowered removed premiums and nothing else

And the moment they touch a regular tech tree ship that isn't the Libertad line, their wr drops below 50%

So even to this day, they are still clearly superior over tech tree ships in the same hull and tier, despite they were released years ago, predating some tech tree lines

And yet they received less criticism in 5 years, than the Libertad line had in one month

[Banzai]

Originally posted by Doctor Dank:

Originally posted by Banzai:

There is no such thing as an "autowin" ship. Musashi is fine but doesnt qualify. Unless you can show me someone with a WR in the 90%s (since thats surely the definition of autowin)? Alaska has deeply average overall stats and Georgia sits way down towards the bottom of the top 10 tier 9s.

Mind the language as well please.

I did come across a lot of players who seemingly had it unicum stats, but on a closer inspection they only achieved it by playing nothing but overpowered removed premiums and nothing else

And the moment they touch a regular tech tree ship that isn't the Libertad line, their wr drops below 50%

Good players have good stats in every ship in the game. The very best players have WRs north of 70% regardless of the ship. Often that will be because they are playing with other very good players, but its also because they know how to maximise their impact regardless of the ship they are in or their position in the tier spread. The PanAm BBs will obviously do better when played by someone competent, but the fact remains that someone could essentially afk and still do well in them. Thats not balanced is is why some people are not so keen on the line existing.

I cant see them being removed personally, but they could do with some changes to balance them.

Originally posted by Doctor Dank:

So even to this day, they are still clearly superior over tech tree ships in the same hull and tier, despite they were released years ago, predating some tech tree lines

And yet they received less criticism in 5 years, than the Libertad line had in one month

No they arent. Musashi is fine, but its still a worse version of Yamato. Alaska is fine, but its outclassed by a whole raft of other T9 cruisers and its stats back that up.

Oh and the PanAm Bbs have been out for 4 months and have not been changed at all. Just saying.

[Doctor Dank]

Then why did their stats took a nosedive when they play in balanced tech tree ships?

Sure the Libertad line is brain-dead, but so was Georgia when she first came out

Its just a case of history repeats, but when it's a tech tree ship that does it, why is it suddenly not fine?

[Doctor Dank]

Originally posted by Banzai:

.

Oh and the PanAm Bbs have been out for 4 months and have not been changed at all. Just saying.

It's a testament to how much hatred this line got for the crime of being overpowered while at the same time, not locked behind a gigantic pay wall, since now the non-whales can, for the first time, take a ship that can fight overpowered removed premiums on "equal" ground

[Banzai]

Originally posted by Doctor Dank:

Then why did their stats took a nosedive when they play in balanced tech tree ships?

Sure the Libertad line is brain-dead, but so was Georgia when she first came out

Its just a case of history repeats, but when it's a tech tree ship that does it, why is it suddenly not fine?

You seem to be arguing my point for me. Thanks. If someone is overperforming in a given ship (even when that player is very good to start with) then plainly there is a problem with its balance?

Me? Im around 60% in BBs in general. In Libertad I have 75% WR. Surely you can concede thats maybe an issue? And if so, surely people are right to suggest the line needs some balancing?

[Doctor Dank]

Originally posted by Banzai:

Originally posted by Doctor Dank:

Then why did their stats took a nosedive when they play in balanced tech tree ships?

Sure the Libertad line is brain-dead, but so was Georgia when she first came out

Its just a case of history repeats, but when it's a tech tree ship that does it, why is it suddenly not fine?

You seem to be arguing my point for me. Thanks. If someone is overperforming in a given ship (even when that player is very good to start with) then plainly there is a problem with its balance?

Me? Im around 60% in BBs in general. In Libertad I have 75% WR. Surely you can concede thats maybe an issue? And if so, surely people are right to suggest the line needs some balancing?

Yes, but what I want to know is that, why is Libertad line got so much flak upon release, but Georgia and musashi were free from criticisms despite being similarly OP when they first came out? Tech tree BBs didn't get the buffs they got now, and superships weren't a thing yet

Libertad line still gets cries of nerf to this day, meanwhile musashi has 0 criticisms thrown it's way since day 1 because it was "a real and historical ship" despite being just as damaging to the tier balance as Los Andes

[Banzai]

If the old official forums still existed then you would have seen some complaints about Musashi and others, but the fact remains that you still needed to be using a modicum of skill to perform in them. Musashi being a worse Yamato means that someone at the very least needs to manage range and be competent with their aim. Alaska is just a pretty standard USN heavy cruiser and vulnerable in all the same ways that the tech tree ones are. The only significant difference is the larger, slower firing guns. Georgia is pretty middle of the road in its stats compared to other USN BBs. However the small barrel count means that once again you needed to be competent with your aim to make it shine.

And then we have the Libertad line which are fast, agile, tanky and can dish out large amounts of damage without even using their main guns. They also reward braindead play. You wouldnt do as well as someone playing properly but you certainly can just hold W and charge in at the start and be rewarded for it. The fact that a whole lot of people overperform in a given line of ships (bad players become average, average players become good, good players become unicum) is surely evidence of some balancing being needed, and it seems reasonable if people point this out. Its not a question of defending p2w (which as mentioned isnt a thing). Its just about balance.

[Banzai]

Originally posted by AGT_ZURU:

Originally posted by Banzai:

...and p2w really isnt a thing by the way...

You should try Stand-Up Comedy...

Tell that to everyone who got IJN Shinano AND USS Archerfish...

Oh dear. So steel ships are p2w now are they? And not sure why you are touting Archerfish being great. Its fine (as is any sub) in competent hands.

[Jackson]

Pay to win isn't applicable to time in games, otherwise all games are pay to win. Every last one, so the argument that anything specific IN the game is P2W is ridiculous. It's like complaining that a pool of water is wet. It just is.

P2W is not a thing in this game.

[Banzai]

I see you have done your normal trick of deleting all your posts, but I wil ask - what do you think someones stats should look like in (for example) the Shinano if they are going to claim its p2w? And thats ignoring the obvious fact that its bought with ingame currency.

But anyway, if someone is going to state its overly powerful then do you think their stats should reflect this? I mentioned earlier about massively overperforming in Libertad compared to BBs as a whole (as many people are) as evidence it needs some balance. How are you doing in Shinano compared to other CVs Mr Zuru?

[R[e]venge®-uk*]

Who and where are people crying Libertad line is OP ?? I see plenty of folks sail straight in and get focused and die!!

And where are people saying Musashi, a Tier 9 Yamato without leg mod and AA or an Alaska is OP ?

Please link your sources!