RB lines worth resetting?

[Ryven]

Besides the obvious Harugumo line to reset for RP, what other lines that are worth resetting that won't break the bank or will be frustrating to deal with.

[Jackson]

Whatever lines are fun. They're all relatively similar. Unless you're doing it for free xp, it doesn't matter. BB's cost more usually, but they make more xp too, so it balances out.

[Nepgear]

Venezia's a nice grind. Might be the cheapest cruiser too, about 55k more than 'gumo.

[lunsmann]

I always reset and regrind the Zao line. T1 to T4 I play in co-op mode where the game is fun. T5 Furutaka I play in randoms, the game is super fun at T5. T6 Aoba to T8 Mogami I play in operations mode where the ships are able to shine. T9 Ibuki has to be played in randoms, it can be a bit of a struggle at times.

If using free XP, the Zao line is the cheapest. 3rd cheapest line overall after the 2 Japanese DD lines.

[Dee-Jay]

Originally posted by Ryven:

Besides the obvious Harugumo line to reset for RP, what other lines that are worth resetting that won't break the bank or will be frustrating to deal with.

I've been doing the UK DD line as major regrinds. I find them all to be fun, rather than just the Akizuki-Kitakaze duo on the IJN line.

[bstangeby]

Dumb question but what is so obvious with resetting Haraguma? I will do both destroyer lines but are with Akatsuki on the other line.

[Dee-Jay]

Originally posted by bstangeby:

Dumb question but what is so obvious with resetting Haraguma? I will do both destroyer lines but are with Akatsuki on the other line.

They're cheaper than other lines and Akizuki and Kitakaze are really popular as fun ships to play. Given that you'll usually spend the most time in the T8-T9 ships it makes sense to pick ones you like.
Cost effective and fun = a good choice for those people.

But really it should be a line which you enjoy and play well above all else. If you hate IJN gunboats or can't play well in them, Aki and Kita will be a massive chore.

[arjensmit79]

I do the shima line because i enjoy playing the T7-T9 of those.

[Ace42]

Originally posted by lunsmann:

T5 Furutaka I play in randoms, the game is super fun at T5. T6 Aoba to T8 Mogami I play in operations mode where the ships are able to shine. T9 Ibuki has to be played in randoms, it can be a bit of a struggle at times.

All these PvE matches suggest you've not come to grips with the basics of the line - Furutaka being a bit of a giveaway, because it has 48mm deck armour - which is pretty insane (compare it to 30mm on Zao).
Its 25mm casement armour will bounce everything that doesn't out-tier it, and a lot of things that do (requiring 380mm+ to overmatch).

That level of tankiness makes it forgiving of habitual misplays in a way that a lot of ships (in the line, but also cruisers in general) simply aren't.

Cruiser fundamentals are identifying each line's main survival tricks, and reducing downtime without exposing yourself to excessive danger.

Most cruisers can happily island camp, although some excel at it.
If the enemy can't see you; or if their shells can't clear mountains that your shells can; then you don't have to rely on stuff like Furutaka having a broken armour scheme to survive. 155m Mogami (best Mogami) in particular wants to be island camping to DPM farm as hard as possible.

IJN heavy cruisers excel at reload / traverse greifing overmatch-threats from stealth - which allows them to get close enough to enemy scouts to wallop them with good HE before kiting away; allows them to use their excellent torps for area denial whilst kiting away; allows them to start fires with a salvo then restealth before significant retaliation; and allows them to find vulnerable broadsides to delete with their AP.

They can long-range openwater boat *a bit* because of their decent accuracy (especially legmod Zao), so that's another tool in their arsenal, but that isn't really a first choice.

Don't get me wrong, if you're burnt out of PvP game-modes or trying to optimise completing dockyard / event / whatever missions, then PvE is a good alternative option.

But if you're trying to grind efficiently (Asym notwithstanding), then doing tolerably in PvP is going to be far more effective than earning reduced rewards vs bots.

[lunsmann]

Originally posted by Ace42:

Originally posted by lunsmann:

T5 Furutaka I play in randoms, the game is super fun at T5. T6 Aoba to T8 Mogami I play in operations mode where the ships are able to shine. T9 Ibuki has to be played in randoms, it can be a bit of a struggle at times.

All these PvE matches suggest you've not come to grips with the basics of the line - Furutaka being a bit of a giveaway, because it has 48mm deck armour - which is pretty insane (compare it to 30mm on Zao).
Its 25mm casement armour will bounce everything that doesn't out-tier it, and a lot of things that do (requiring 380mm+ to overmatch).

That level of tankiness makes it forgiving of habitual misplays in a way that a lot of ships (in the line, but also cruisers in general) simply aren't.

Cruiser fundamentals are identifying each line's main survival tricks, and reducing downtime without exposing yourself to excessive danger.

Most cruisers can happily island camp, although some excel at it.
If the enemy can't see you; or if their shells can't clear mountains that your shells can; then you don't have to rely on stuff like Furutaka having a broken armour scheme to survive. 155m Mogami (best Mogami) in particular wants to be island camping to DPM farm as hard as possible.

IJN heavy cruisers excel at reload / traverse greifing overmatch-threats from stealth - which allows them to get close enough to enemy scouts to wallop them with good HE before kiting away; allows them to use their excellent torps for area denial whilst kiting away; allows them to start fires with a salvo then restealth before significant retaliation; and allows them to find vulnerable broadsides to delete with their AP.

They can long-range openwater boat *a bit* because of their decent accuracy (especially legmod Zao), so that's another tool in their arsenal, but that isn't really a first choice.

Don't get me wrong, if you're burnt out of PvP game-modes or trying to optimise completing dockyard / event / whatever missions, then PvE is a good alternative option.

But if you're trying to grind efficiently (Asym notwithstanding), then doing tolerably in PvP is going to be far more effective than earning reduced rewards vs bots.

Can you read? I SAID I PLAY FURUTAKA in RANDOMS.

Jesus wept, I have grinded the entire line in random battle 10 times already. Half my commanders are at 19 points or higher as well. I am fully aware how to play this line of cruisers in the ASIA server.

I play Furry taco in randoms because T5 is still fun. T6 is not fun in randoms because 60% of all games are vs T8. Same with T7 and T8. Randoms game mode is toxic as f*ck, MM is complete BS. And operations mode is the best mode to play those 3 ships. Aoba, Myoko and Mogami. I know these ships, their strength and their weaknesses. I never use free xp, until I get to Ibuki and use freexp to upgrade the ship, then grind to Zao.

Geez a wall of text for nothing. Well done.

[lunsmann]

If I come across a bit abrupt, I apologise. I have just had to play 7 games in random battles for naval battle duties. The level of play displayed at T10 is abysmal these days. Even players with green and purple clan tags are sitting at the back sniping and completely ignoring the objectives.

I suppose it makes sense considering what another player told me on discord regarding a certain popular unofficial mod that uses the weegee UI. I don't want to get banned, but lets say the ASIA server players are expert snipers for a reason. Leave it at that.

Don't spend money on the game, it's not a level playing field.

[Ace42]

Originally posted by lunsmann:

Can you read? I SAID I PLAY FURUTAKA in RANDOMS.

Indeed. My reply directly acknowledged this, and discussed it. Feel free to re-read my post if you didn't understand it.
My point was that Furutaka is the only ship in the line with excessive amounts of armour, and thus can be misplayed in randoms without suffering the consequences the other ships do.

I am fully aware how to play this line of cruisers in the ASIA server.
(...) T6 is not fun in randoms because 60% of all games are vs T8. Same with T7 and T8.

If you understand how to play this line of cruisers, why are you complaining about being bottom tier - which has a negligible effect on the outcome of a match if you are actually playing correctly?

Could it because you are relying on Furutaka's excessive armour to shield you from misplays, like I suggested?

Randoms game mode is toxic as f*ck, MM is complete BS.

Toxic? Maybe. But I find that people who are misplaying have the worst experience of it.

Matchmaking is "fine" - people complaining about tier are people who are not executing on the fundamentals of the game.

And operations mode is the best mode to play those 3 ships. Aoba, Myoko and Mogami. I know these ships, their strength and their weaknesses.

Then why are you struggling so hard when bottom tier, and hiding in childishly easy PvE gamemodes that can only be lost through gross incompetence on the part of at least half the team?

Maybe you are a positive winrate unicum, but everything you've said is strongly indicative of a negative winrate player who is neglecting game fundamentals.
Seeing negative winrate players with a disproportionate number of games in Furutaka (and the stat-padding that comes from this) isn't exactly uncommon - for the reason I outlined.

Originally posted by lunsmann:

I suppose it makes sense considering what another player told me on discord regarding a certain popular unofficial mod that uses the weegee UI. I don't want to get banned, but lets say the ASIA server players are expert snipers for a reason. Leave it at that.

Don't spend money on the game, it's not a level playing field.

You're not going to get banned from these forums for making vague hackusations against no-one-in-particular.

You will be ridiculed, however.
Aiming in this game is trivially easy already thanks to the game's in-built aim-assist.
Using aimbots in this game is uniquely ineffective thanks to shells' travel-time, which gives targets time to change course and speed to evade incoming fire whilst the shells are in mid-air.

If you're relying on the enemy not being able to aim properly for your cruisers to survive, then clearly you do not "know these ships" - because you're demonstrating a basic misunderstanding of how the game operates.

Oh, and a "wall of text" is text without paragraph breaks. Not "a few more words than I am comfortable reading because my reading age and attention span is that of a pre-teen".

[lunsmann]

Originally posted by Ace42:

Originally posted by lunsmann:

Can you read? I SAID I PLAY FURUTAKA in RANDOMS.

Indeed. And my point was that Furutaka is the only ship in the line with excessive amounts of armour, and thus can be misplayed in randoms without suffering the consequences the other ships do.

I am fully aware how to play this line of cruisers in the ASIA server.
(...) T6 is not fun in randoms because 60% of all games are vs T8. Same with T7 and T8.

If you understand how to play this line of cruisers, why are you complaining about being bottom tier - which has a negligible effect on the outcome of a match if you are actually playing correctly?

Could it because you are relying on Furutaka's excessive armour to shield you from misplays, like I suggested?

Randoms game mode is toxic as f*ck, MM is complete BS.

Toxic? Maybe. But I find that people who are misplaying have the worst experience of it.

Matchmaking is "fine" - people complaining about tier are people who are not executing on the fundamentals of the game.

And operations mode is the best mode to play those 3 ships. Aoba, Myoko and Mogami. I know these ships, their strength and their weaknesses.

Then why are you struggling so hard when bottom tier, and hiding in PvE gamemodes that can only be lost through gross incompetence?

Maybe you are a positive winrate unicum, but everything you've said is strongly indicative of a negative winrate player who is neglecting game fundamentals.

Originally posted by lunsmann:

I suppose it makes sense considering what another player told me on discord regarding a certain popular unofficial mod that uses the weegee UI. I don't want to get banned, but lets say the ASIA server players are expert snipers for a reason. Leave it at that.

Don't spend money on the game, it's not a level playing field.

You're not going to get banned from these forums for making vague hackusations against no-one-in-particular.

You will be ridiculed, however. Aiming in this game is trivially easy already thanks to the game's in-built aim-assist.
Using aimbots in this game is uniquely ineffective thanks to shells' travel-time, which gives targets time to change course and speed to evade incoming fire whilst the shells are in mid-air.

If you're relying on the enemy not being able to aim properly for your cruisers to survive, then clearly you do not "know these ships" - because you're demonstrating a basic misunderstanding of how the game operates.

It's obvious you do not play on the SEA server. Every game is played at maximum range. The players from a certain country are expert at max range dev striking because warpack is not an aimbot. It activates certain skills with button presses. As explained to me by that player who is from that country, it's a pay mod freely available in his country and is very popular. Mock all you like, the mod is real and it does work. Getting devstruck by a Columbo from 23km away by all 12 of his shells impacting on the centre mass of my De moine that was behind an island and nose in to that columbo player. That player went on to dev strike 2 other players at max range, I watched them do it. Sending a report to weegee does nothing, they never tell you anything and this player tells me the warpack mod is still in use. It has a button for dead eye (remember that? removed but apparently still in the code) a button for incoming shells dispersion etc.

As for the rest. I said I play Furrutaka in randoms. I stopped playing the others in randoms because of the asia server meta - long range and always +2 MM which means overmatch, not to forget every game having 2 cv's and 2 submarines now as well. I choose operations mode because it is preferable for me.

Keep your elitist clap trap to yourself.

[Ace42]

Originally posted by lunsmann:

It's obvious you do not play on the SEA server.

Doesn't change the fundamental game mechanics.
You think that's the only server in the world with people crying "hax!"?

Every game is played at maximum range. The players from a certain country are expert at max range dev striking because warpack is not an aimbot.

At 25km - which is significantly closer distance than the "max range" of ~37km the likes of Satsuma can reach with spotter player - the fastest flight-time for a battleship shell to impact takes 13.2 seconds (Slava, add a few more seconds for other ships' AP). That's more time than it takes for most ships to juke incoming shells. No hacks can do anything about this.
If you were to submit a ticket with a replay showing some sort of railgun hack to support, the user would get banned.

If you're being routinely dev-struck at ranges of 25km or greater, it's going to be because you are oblivious and misplaying - with the exceptions of tremendous flukes.

Why would a hacker who has a button to guarantee dev-strikes on angled cruisers hide 25km away, when all that is doing is gifting his victims an additional unhackable means to avoid getting hit?

Getting devstruck by a Columbo from 23km away by all 12 of his shells impacting on the centre mass of my De moine that was behind an island and nose in to that columbo player.

SAP walloping bow-in heavy cruisers is one of the ammo type's main selling points on the tech tree BBs - the dispersion sounds unfortunate, but not unprecedented even if you are not embellishing (which seems likely given the issues with BBs being able to exert map control that far away from "islands" that you might be camping).

That player went on to dev strike 2 other players at max range, I watched them do it.

You watched two players refuse to use the *14* seconds it takes Columbo shells to arrive from 25km away to simply change direction or speed?

And the problem is "hacks"?

It has a button for dead eye (remember that? removed but apparently still in the code) a button for incoming shells dispersion etc.

Yeah, and I heard they had a button that controls the minds of players and forces them to patiently wait 14 seconds for incoming shells to land too...

If this is a legitimate commonplace issue - should be trivially easy for you to upload the replays to replayswows.com and share the links so the community can verify and demand action from WG.

As for the rest. I said I play Furrutaka in randoms. I stopped playing the others in randoms because of the asia server meta - long range and always +2 MM which means overmatch,

Top tier Worcester gets overmatched by bottom tier Bismarck; top tier Des Moines gets overmatched by bottom tier North Carolina to name just a couple of examples of how the opposite of what you say is true.

The issue isn't tier.

not to forget every game having 2 cv's and 2 submarines now as well.

Might be the case on Asia server, but pretty hyperbolic for EU. Given the number of people on EU who say the exact same things that you say about Asia server - despite it being a load of BS - I'd be tempted to say its just whining.

Yeah CVs and subs can be a pain and fun-sponge - but they're also a lazy excuse for people to whinge about too.

Keep your elitist clap trap to yourself.

You imply that being top tier in Des Moines (where +2 MM is a non-issue) means you're immune to overmatch, which is objectively false. Spending a bit more time thinking about the meta, and bit less time listening to randos crying hacks, might save you from making this sort of mistake.

I'm certainly curious as to what hacks can *actually* do - WG introduce so many bugs and exploits into the game (remember railgun) that it's quite possible there's some messed up exploitable code clientside that I'm not aware of. Stuff like rendering incoming shells on the water so it's easier to orientate your boat between the impact points is obviously practical client-side, but not something mentioned here.

Given how much stuff is supposedly handled server side (dispersion, concealment, etc) it requires more than "this hack-suite that's been around for seven years can do magic!" and no actual evidence to substantiate claims.

Especially when the person who is making specious claims is the one making stale half-baked complaints about "CVs and Subs" - the latter of which has recently had shotgunning nerfed; and the former of which isn't necessarily an issue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmBxaFfmlyE
https://youtu.be/VNJj1tLaNck

[arjensmit79]

I don't agree with everything ace sais, particularly when it's about CV's, i agree more with what this guy sais at the start of his video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZNAu2jITm4

But what he sais about hitting at range is totally spot on.

Of course it is hard to dodge incoming fire if you don't know someone is shooting at you. And it can be hard to have the situational awareness and be looking around fast enough to see if someone is shooting at you. So if you have problems with being hit from long range, try the captain skill "incoming fire alert". Whenever anyone shoots at you, simply slow down/speed and turn left or right. And if you get shot at when you were already doing that, immediately change what you were doing (stop turning, turn other way, speed up if you were slowing down and vice versa), because experienced players actually like to target ships that are turning because that makes their turn predictable. Of course if a particular enemy shot 3 times at you and you managed to dodge 3 times this way, he is going to learn and expect you to reverse the action you were taking when he shoots, so... you are now playing PvP wows.
Long story short: use IFA and press ASDW when fired at.

[Ace42]

Originally posted by arjensmit79:

when it's about CV's, i agree more with what this guy sais at the start of his video:

He's right in that if you're against a good CV who is prioritising ruining the day of a stealth-boat, you're effectively taken out of the match and can't do your job (and as I've said over tons of threads, this should generally be a CV's highest priority).

It's a whole heap of no-fun, don't think I've ever said otherwise.

But... It's a relatively big "if".
Not all matches have CVs; not all matches have CV players who'll focused down scouts (let alone you in specific if there's multiple DDs on your team), and of the ones that do the CV player can potentially be inept.

And even then, if you're wasting the CVs time through mitigation, etc - you're effectively tanking them for your team which is beneficial to a degree (although, again, not necessarily fun).

And this is ignoring ships that are even less concerned with CVs - open water gunboats that are spamming HE at max range don't care about spotting in the way that stealth-boats do; Halland can thrive on getting focused by a CV; etc.

If a DD is already getting zoned out (by radar and / or enemy DD) then getting zoned out by one additional enemy ship isn't really going to make a world of difference, circumstantially.

Some players with good (unhidden) stats can make themselves targets for competent CVs that use stat-trackers, so obviously their sense of being focused by CVs (ditto for CCs getting stream-sniped) is going to differ to that of their audience, too.