HMS Vanguard Underpowered

[Cramps]

So in real life HMS Vanguard was the largest and the most sophisticated battleship ever built for the Royal Navy. But it does not feel like it in game, it's gun size is accurate for sure, but for such an advanced ship it lacks consumables and anything that really makes her stand out besides a good rudder shift. In real life she had good radar and amazing fire control, good torpedo protection having at the time the best reload system for any battleship.

But in game she just feels... average.

She should not be OP of course, but could she be improved? Thoughts?

[Banzai]

Always have to play to a ships strengths. Its got some of the best accuracy found on any T8 BB and as you mentioned its very agile (and quite fast). You also get one of the best (or maybe actually the best - would have to check) hitpoint pools at T8 and a very good heal so as long as you arent out of position and can disengage when you need to, you have a lot of survivability. The AA is pretty good as well.

Obviously the downsides are its pretty poor armour, bad firing angles and low gun count which means its best playing an attrition role at medium ranges.

It certainly has pretty mediocre numbers as compared to other T8 BBs (although is by no means the worst) so maybe it deserves a little love.

[Ace42]

Originally posted by Banzai:

It certainly has pretty mediocre numbers as compared to other T8 BBs (although is by no means the worst) so maybe it deserves a little love.

Give it Hood / DoY's improved pen angles and I'd be happy.

[R[e]venge®-uk*]

Vanguards AP is bad! Her HE is OK but the really annoying thing is the turret traverse is shocking and she has a large citadel ... playing vs tier 10's you have to be super stealthy and look for the chance to constantly be ready to kite and run! Against tier 8's she can hold her own at mid range and vs the 6's you just have to watch that citadel vs big guns.....

overall she probably could do with a buff especially as her AA seems meh these days and the torp protection is awful!

As ACE said above if the AP was better who knows? Personally I would give her a lower citadel but thats me being British! :D

[~T~D~]

Originally posted by Cramps:

So in real life HMS Vanguard was the largest and the most sophisticated battleship ever built for the Royal Navy. But it does not feel like it in game, it's gun size is accurate for sure, but for such an advanced ship it lacks consumables and anything that really makes her stand out besides a good rudder shift. In real life she had good radar and amazing fire control, good torpedo protection having at the time the best reload system for any battleship.

But in game she just feels... average.

She should not be OP of course, but could she be improved? Thoughts?

I also thought it was realistic simulator early on, but more and more facts as the years gone by it is just an arcade shooter. - With so much RNG it should never even be in ranked matches, yet ranked and Brawl is the only thing fun.

All ships should have some gimicks and equal amount of gadgets, the time it lasts should be balanced.

[ReDiR]

Took it for a spin ranked recently and did suprisingly well. Very solid HE rounds even with not so good fire chance. Mobility is also great, it handles like a cruiser. I would say its fairly solid BB for its tier, no buffs are needed

[Ace42]

Originally posted by ReDiR:

Took it for a spin ranked recently and did suprisingly well. Very solid HE rounds even with not so good fire chance. Mobility is also great, it handles like a cruiser. I would say its fairly solid BB for its tier, no buffs are needed

It's "meh". I do fine in it, and the accuracy plus RoF helped me perform even when I was a fresh player with limited experience learning the game. But it's got zero character or personality aside from "silly fast rudder shift" which is kinda necessary for the terrible gun angles, and isn't particularly special.

As I said, I think giving it improved pen angles so it is more similar to other UK premium BBs would be sensible - kinda how Monarch got the T9/T10 superheal recently because it was so mediocre and underwhelming.

Normalising gimmicks within nations is a good idea in general in terms of it being intuitive to new players.

[dakin1]

I think to some extent this is an issue with all BBs with 15" (~380 mm) guns. Due to WG's overmatch mechanic for bow in boats, 380 mm guns are limited in AP damage dealing to ships with 27 mm bows, which include most high tier cruisers--this makes many (but not all) boats have AP that feels lackluster in damage dealt unless you manage to find a lot of broadside ships to shoot at. It is unfortunate because even ships like the QE were considered top of the line and terrified naval opponents when they were built but are somewhat lackluster in WOWs...

[Jackson]

Overmatch is really overrated. You have to get a very perfect shot that's almost entirely RNG for it to have an effect. When it does work, it's very strong... But consider one of the most powerful BB's at T10 has 380mm guns. Bourgogne. The caliber of the gun makes a difference less than most people realize.

[Ace42]

Originally posted by Jackson:

The caliber of the gun makes a difference less than most people realize.

Yep. If you're not finding broadsides in a BB, that either means you've mispositioned (you're so close to teammates that the enemy can angle against all of you); or you're getting a free win from your teammates farming a broadside enemy for free whilst you are angled properly and thus can tank millions of potential damage.

I think it's one of the reasons people dislike Anhalt and Marlborough so much - bad initial positioning, so don't get to capitalise on that tasty one-salvo potential from the high alpha.

I think the Italian, French, and (obsolete) German dispersion characteristics probably contributed to frustration with 380mm calibre guns too, TBH.
Gascogone, Roma / Littorio are just total unreliable pains.

[Dee-Jay]

Originally posted by Ace42:

Originally posted by Jackson:

The caliber of the gun makes a difference less than most people realize.

Yep. If you're not finding broadsides in a BB, that either means you've mispositioned (you're so close to teammates that the enemy can angle against all of you); or you're getting a free win from your teammates farming a broadside enemy for free whilst you are angled properly and thus can tank millions of potential damage.

I think it's one of the reasons people dislike Anhalt and Marlborough so much - bad initial positioning, so don't get to capitalise on that tasty one-salvo potential from the high alpha.

I think the Italian, French, and (obsolete) German dispersion characteristics probably contributed to frustration with 380mm calibre guns too, TBH.
Gascogone, Roma / Littorio are just total unreliable pains.

I never played Gascogne massively but when I did, I thought it felt like an underrated ship. The mobility and the Massa style 40 sec cooldown heal is not to be overlooked! I still hardly use it though, so maybe it's just boring.

To me the Roma/Littorio embodies the concept of the difference between "range" and "lethal range". Solution for me is to use that concealment to take up positions undetected and hit them from 11.5km. There's less chance of that scatter being trollish at that range (even though it still can)!