So how are torpedos not stupidly broken?

[snugginz]

Torpedos to port.
Looks. Nothing there.
Moments later...
Suddenly about 2 seconds before they hit me, a spread of torpedoes magically appear.
And they're literally impossible to dodge because they don't appear until just before they hit you.
Even if you turn when he says 'torpedoes to port' if the enemy player was skillful he put a pattern down that's impossible to dodge.
BTW I have to shoot him about 20x before he dies so he can just rush me and brute force win. Wouldn't matter anyway because the ease with which he just dodged every single volley of shots looked like he was just toying with me.
So how exactly are torpedoes not stupidly broken?

Edit: And he's so much faster and more maneuverable that I can't even run away.

The guy probably has thousands of hours of gameplay and is just trolling new players.
Last match same thing. One guy on enemy team killed literally half our team. NICE they throw these chumps at you in your first hours!

[christof]

Originally posted by snugginz:

NICE they throw these chumps at you in your first hours!

We've been over this. Very extensively.

You still writing this at this point means you're either very forgetful or simply trolling. Sorry, but it's true.


But having said that: If you pay attention to what's in the enemy lineup and when and where they've been last spotted (you can see that on the minimap), as well as to whether you are spotted yourself and can see what is likely spotting you, you can get a very good feeling of whether someone has fired or may be in the process of firing torpedoes your way.
In which case you move. Don't constantly move in a straight line and speed. And turn as good into or away from the way the torpedoes would have to come from as possible without exposing your broadside to enemy guns or limiting your own combat capabilities too much. (That way you're making it much easier to dodge incoming torpedoes and even if you fail to do so will be a smaller target catching fewer hits.)

If you can't avoid catching a torpedo in your BB (and to lesser extend your cruiser), it's better taking it in the middle of the ship (where you have torpedo protection and a reduced chance for floodings) than on the prow or stern.

Taking hydro or staying with someone who has it can also be useful here, because a well timed running hydro will give you a far earlier warning and thus time to react and dodge.
Having a friendly DD between you and potential enemy torpedo boats also helps, because he will spot them when they pass him. Still quite a ways away from you. Again far earlier warning, more time to react.

When dodging, it is usually better to turn into the torps than away from them since it will make them pass you quicker. Allowing you to freely maneuvre again. It is situational though. Turning away can at times even mean the torpedoes will run out before even reaching you.

Try to think a bit like a torpedo boat and where you would expect enemy ships from if you were them. Quite often, a captain of one will send out torpedoes purely on speculation or in an attempt to deny the enemy easy passage. I sank more enemy DDs and even cruisers and subs this way than I probably should have.

Beware of smokescreens. They may spit out torpedoes.

And nothing of what I just said will save you from shotgunning submarines, sorry.

[Banzai]

Go and check how many games they have and what their stats look like. You might surprised by how mediocre/poor these alleged "elites" are. No offence but pwning a new player like yourself doesnt require some high level elite unicum since you are still learning the very basic fundamentals of the game and are almost certainly making a lot of mistakes.

Wont repeat the good advice above apart from to say you should be expecting torps if there is a DD in the vicinity. Even if you cant see it you still get an indication on your HUD that you are spotted so dont keep wandering round side on to where the torps will likely be coming from. Dodging torpedoes is easy enough if you are showing the narrowest profile to them (ie facing directly towards or away from them). If you only start dodging when you see the torps then its already too late.

[Kamiyama]

You can use a ship that has hydroacoustic search, or you can use the vigilance skill on your commander, or you can use the torpedo lookout system module.

But most of all, you need to assume that every DD and cruiser has torps and is planning to use them against you. So you need to always use evasive maneuvers when you enter the firing zone along their sides. Torpedoes (except the sub-only homing torps) will travel in a straight line and at a set speed. So if you turn, or slow down, or speed up, they will miss you. That's exactly what you want to do every time you enter that firing zone.

Doesn't matter if you can't actually see the torps yet, you need to assume they are coming and take evasive maneuvers before you see them.

It might be frustrating at first because you might think it's screwing with your gameplay, but if you keep doing it, it will become second nature. Dodging torpedoes is always more important than going wherever it was you wanted to go.

[Ace42]

Originally posted by snugginz:

Torpedos to port.
Looks. Nothing there.

You deduce if there's something there by noticing that you've become detected - and thus there's an unspotted ship directly on the perimeter of that detection circle on your minimap, looking at the enemy team's line-up and the minimap to see which ships are unaccounted for, and figuring out that there's a DD positioning there - and thus torpedoes.

The counters to torpedoes are: Premptively angling against the direction the torps are going to come from; managing your range to the DD so that you're either *juuuuust* outside of their torpedo range, or else far enough away that they torpedoes have time to spread out and give you gaps to sail between; varying your course and speed so that any attempt to predict your path fails and the torps miss.

Hydro, or simply have teammates spotting the torps for you from further away, helps.

Oh, and if you have Priority Target commander skill, and you see the number of main batteries locked onto you ticking up and down by one, that's a DD switching between main battery and torps and back again - which is telegraphing a torpedo launch.

[Banzai]

Yeah more good advice above. Game knowledge plays a large part in this since actually knowing what sort of range torps the enemy has will help a lot. At low tiers they tend to be quite short range and people will be careful to stay far enough away that you dont spot their ship so moving away from wherever the DD probably is can mean the torps expire before they reach you.

[Deathwing]

HOW ARE GUNS NOT STUPIDLY BROKEN?

One second I am sailing fine and then all of a sudden out of the corner of my eye this salvo comes out of no where and dev strikes me. NERF GUNS!

[~T~D~]

You have to read and try to understand how the spotting works, And your not telling us what ship you are in and what HE uses. - In a BB you can build for torps (but not many do), that means you will get notice when they come toward you further out so u have time to turn. Also use ships with Hydro. And only run hydro when you think it will be useful. There are many mechanics in this game that needs to be understood.

[snugginz]

Originally posted by christof:

Originally posted by snugginz:

NICE they throw these chumps at you in your first hours!

We've been over this. Very extensively.

You still writing this at this point means you're either very forgetful or simply trolling. Sorry, but it's true.


But having said that: If you pay attention to what's in the enemy lineup and when and where they've been last spotted (you can see that on the minimap), as well as to whether you are spotted yourself and can see what is likely spotting you, you can get a very good feeling of whether someone has fired or may be in the process of firing torpedoes your way.
In which case you move. Don't constantly move in a straight line and speed. And turn as good into or away from the way the torpedoes would have to come from as possible without exposing your broadside to enemy guns or limiting your own combat capabilities too much. (That way you're making it much easier to dodge incoming torpedoes and even if you fail to do so will be a smaller target catching fewer hits.)

If you can't avoid catching a torpedo in your BB (and to lesser extend your cruiser), it's better taking it in the middle of the ship (where you have torpedo protection and a reduced chance for floodings) than on the prow or stern.

Taking hydro or staying with someone who has it can also be useful here, because a well timed running hydro will give you a far earlier warning and thus time to react and dodge.
Having a friendly DD between you and potential enemy torpedo boats also helps, because he will spot them when they pass him. Still quite a ways away from you. Again far earlier warning, more time to react.

When dodging, it is usually better to turn into the torps than away from them since it will make them pass you quicker. Allowing you to freely maneuvre again. It is situational though. Turning away can at times even mean the torpedoes will run out before even reaching you.

Try to think a bit like a torpedo boat and where you would expect enemy ships from if you were them. Quite often, a captain of one will send out torpedoes purely on speculation or in an attempt to deny the enemy easy passage. I sank more enemy DDs and even cruisers and subs this way than I probably should have.

Beware of smokescreens. They may spit out torpedoes.

And nothing of what I just said will save you from shotgunning submarines, sorry.

Not actually trolling. This guy dodged all of my shots like they were nothing. Closed distance and fired two volleys of torpedoes. Out of about 8 fired 5 hit me. And he fired some then went a couple seconds, turned and fired more, in such a way that it was literally impossible to dodge. It felt ridiculously cheap. Of course I take out a destroyer and can't do anything with it.

He probably has thousands of hours in game and of course should definitely be matched against me, because you know I got here yesterday LOL. 5 hours in the game and it definitely feels like someone is trolling to get these impossible situations.

I'll try the things you said. Can't suggest a destroyer nerf as obviously they have a high skill cap. But maybe the matchmaking really could use a tweak. Someone with less than 100 hours should never face someone with more than 1000 hours IMO. That just seems reasonable. And better for the game as I imagine this MM turns a lot of new players away.

Still destroyers seem broken in the right hands.

[snugginz]

Originally posted by Banzai:

Go and check how many games they have and what their stats look like. You might surprised by how mediocre/poor these alleged "elites" are. No offence but pwning a new player like yourself doesnt require some high level elite unicum since you are still learning the very basic fundamentals of the game and are almost certainly making a lot of mistakes.

Wont repeat the good advice above apart from to say you should be expecting torps if there is a DD in the vicinity. Even if you cant see it you still get an indication on your HUD that you are spotted so dont keep wandering round side on to where the torps will likely be coming from. Dodging torpedoes is easy enough if you are showing the narrowest profile to them (ie facing directly towards or away from them). If you only start dodging when you see the torps then its already too late.

Yeah, it's definitely too late when you see them!
But this guy was definitely an expert the way he dodged all my shots and the way he put that pattern of torpedoes down. No dodge was going to matter. He basically made a weaved mesh. He got in close and had such a speed advantage. By the time he fired it was a win. Super frustrating.

I'll keep a closer eye on the minimap. If I see a destroyer again I'll run like hell!
And just constantly keep dodging I guess.

[snugginz]

Originally posted by Ace42:

Originally posted by snugginz:

Torpedos to port.
Looks. Nothing there.

You deduce if there's something there by noticing that you've become detected - and thus there's an unspotted ship directly on the perimeter of that detection circle on your minimap, looking at the enemy team's line-up and the minimap to see which ships are unaccounted for, and figuring out that there's a DD positioning there - and thus torpedoes.

The counters to torpedoes are: Premptively angling against the direction the torps are going to come from; managing your range to the DD so that you're either *juuuuust* outside of their torpedo range, or else far enough away that they torpedoes have time to spread out and give you gaps to sail between; varying your course and speed so that any attempt to predict your path fails and the torps miss.

Hydro, or simply have teammates spotting the torps for you from further away, helps.

Oh, and if you have Priority Target commander skill, and you see the number of main batteries locked onto you ticking up and down by one, that's a DD switching between main battery and torps and back again - which is telegraphing a torpedo launch.

Yeah sounds like it takes a lot of experience to deal with those destroyers.

I'll try the strategies suggested.
And google Hydro! Sounds promising ;-)

[snugginz]

Originally posted by Deathwing:

HOW ARE GUNS NOT STUPIDLY BROKEN?

One second I am sailing fine and then all of a sudden out of the corner of my eye this salvo comes out of no where and dev strikes me. NERF GUNS!

I don't have this problem with guns really. Don't know why. The tracers maybe?
And if a ship gets anywhere near this close of course I see them.

[snugginz]

Originally posted by ~T~D~:

You have to read and try to understand how the spotting works, And your not telling us what ship you are in and what HE uses. - In a BB you can build for torps (but not many do), that means you will get notice when they come toward you further out so u have time to turn. Also use ships with Hydro. And only run hydro when you think it will be useful. There are many mechanics in this game that needs to be understood.

I've been playing the Chester. But I'm looking for something else now.
It seems his fun days are over LOL.

[Ace42]

Originally posted by snugginz:

This guy dodged all of my shots like they were nothing.

"Dodging" doesn't really work in this game - there's tons of auto-aim, there's several seconds of rudder shift on even the most nimble ships in the game, and ships slow down substantially if they're not sailing in a straight line, bleeding speed.

To properly evade incoming fire requires they stay at long range, where the longer travel-time for the shells buys the victim enough time to simply put his boat somewhere else. Typically this will be by acceleration-juking incoming salvos.

To sort out your aim see:
https://youtu.be/MqXbWux_QKY

[christof]

To be fair, it does work... at a distance. And by making your enemy believe you will be doing one thing, then doing another. You're not dodging shells you see coming as much as making the enemy point his guns at the wrong place.

But when you're as close as the torpedo distance of a Sampson or Wickes (which from the OP's explanation will have been the DD he encountered), never mind a distance that ensures them a hit, there really is no way for the captain of the DD to do much of that. All he can hope for is that his target screws up the counterfire in their panic (happens even to experienced players), that the RNG of the counterfire goes their way or that they have enough hp left to live until after dropping their torpedoes.
Or of course wait until the guns point the wrong way before starting their run. Which at the very least will expose them to far less fire.

And to be fair, tier II-III battles happen on rather small ones with usually a lot of cover available and guns without too much range and often questionable accuracy. Which turns almost any battle there into a short ranged brawl soon enough. Prime territory for destroyers, though their low hp pools will make sure that any concentrated counterfire will sink them very quickly. Of course at tier III, quite a few cruisers may just countertorpedo any DD coming too close (I'm looking at you, Tenryuu) or blow them out of the water with massive gunfire (why, hello Saint Louis).

[Jaynoble55]

Originally posted by Kamiyama:

You can use a ship that has hydroacoustic search, or you can use the vigilance skill on your commander, or you can use the torpedo lookout system module.

But most of all, you need to assume that every DD and cruiser has torps and is planning to use them against you. So you need to always use evasive maneuvers when you enter the firing zone along their sides. Torpedoes (except the sub-only homing torps) will travel in a straight line and at a set speed. So if you turn, or slow down, or speed up, they will miss you. That's exactly what you want to do every time you enter that firing zone.

Doesn't matter if you can't actually see the torps yet, you need to assume they are coming and take evasive maneuvers before you see them.

It might be frustrating at first because you might think it's screwing with your gameplay, but if you keep doing it, it will become second nature. Dodging torpedoes is always more important than going wherever it was you wanted to go.

This