9/10 games is 2 tiers higher then me, why?

[Dood]

I really like the concept of this game but no matter what ship i play(dont have t10 yet) i get put in in games with ships that are 2 tiers higher then me. I played a CV..all my planes get shot down vs 1 BB AA before they can start a attack run. Also as of late i am on the losing team most of the time(cant have much impact on the outcome when im always 2 tiers lower). Cant we just wait a bit longer for the mtach making and only play within our own tier or maybe only 1 tier higher?

[christof]

Are you certain that you are double uptiered that often? Or is it just that you notice these games more while not taking much note of games where the opposite happens? Because unless you are looking at a very small number of battles only, sheer probability says that you should get to be low and high tier about the same amount of times (tiers 1-6 and X/XI, maybe IX excluded). And regularily be mid-tier or in an all same tier battle as well.

Just asking, because after I first heard someone complaining about often being low-tier, I actually started counting what happened to me. And found about the same number of low-tier and high-tier games. And slightly more than one of those categories where I was mid-tier or it a single-tier battle.

[Hiei]

Sounds like first of all you've gotten yourself in a tiny bit of a rut by losing.
Sometimes it helps to refresh yourself or try another play style
We all remember games when we lost bad, winning tends to have less of an effect.

People are going to tell you to get better at dodging Flack from CV even more so against a battleship.

I have *Heard* That the more you play a single ship or at least the same tier, after so many games you tend get into more games of just that tier and are up/down tiered a little less
This has held up for me a little bit; BUT I cannot say if it's personal experience or not

[Dood]

Originally posted by christof:

Are you certain that you are double uptiered that often? Or is it just that you notice these games more while not taking much note of games where the opposite happens? Because unless you are looking at a very small number of battles only, sheer probability says that you should get to be low and high tier about the same amount of times (tiers 1-6 and X/XI, maybe IX excluded). And regularily be mid-tier or in an all same tier battle as well.

Just asking, because after I first heard someone complaining about often being low-tier, I actually started counting what happened to me. And found about the same number of low-tier and high-tier games. And slightly more than one of those categories where I was mid-tier or it a single-tier battle.

Yep 9/10 at least... i just played a few games in Der Grosse .. all vs tier 10 and 11

[Dood]

Originally posted by The Imperial Best HIEI:

Sounds like first of all you've gotten yourself in a tiny bit of a rut by losing.
Sometimes it helps to refresh yourself or try another play style
We all remember games when we lost bad, winning tends to have less of an effect.

People are going to tell you to get better at dodging Flack from CV even more so against a battleship.

I have *Heard* That the more you play a single ship or at least the same tier, after so many games you tend get into more games of just that tier and are up/down tiered a little less
This has held up for me a little bit; BUT I cannot say if it's personal experience or not

I lose nearly all games where i am 1 of 2 ships of the lowest tier but win all the rare game where i am 1 tier below or or even more rare high tier (1/20 maybe)

[christof]

Originally posted by Doomed:

Originally posted by christof:

Are you certain that you are double uptiered that often? Or is it just that you notice these games more while not taking much note of games where the opposite happens? Because unless you are looking at a very small number of battles only, sheer probability says that you should get to be low and high tier about the same amount of times (tiers 1-6 and X/XI, maybe IX excluded). And regularily be mid-tier or in an all same tier battle as well.

Just asking, because after I first heard someone complaining about often being low-tier, I actually started counting what happened to me. And found about the same number of low-tier and high-tier games. And slightly more than one of those categories where I was mid-tier or it a single-tier battle.

Yep 9/10 at least... i just played a few games in Der Grosse .. all vs tier 10 and 11

That's kind of why I ask. "A few" is not a good basis here. How many battles have you actually jotted down the tiers?

[Dood]

Originally posted by christof:

Originally posted by Doomed:

Yep 9/10 at least... i just played a few games in Der Grosse .. all vs tier 10 and 11

That's kind of why I ask. "A few" is not a good basis here. How many battles have you actually jotted down the tiers?

Well it is so many that im actually suprised that i get maybe 2-3 games a day where it dont have to fight 2 tier higher ships.
Now right after i left a critical comment WOW stopped syncing with steam for the first time ever. Really regret putting time and money into this now.

[Banzai]

I cant think of a CV that would be completely ineffectual when downtiered - they literally all still have utility. You just have to play smart and pick your targets carefully while spotting and preserving as many planes as possible and avoiding groups of AA ships.

The other team will have exactly the same mix of tiers (most of the time - sometimes skewed due to divisions) and their CV will always be the same tier as you so they have the same challenge to make themselves useful.

Originally posted by Doomed:

I lose nearly all games where i am 1 of 2 ships of the lowest tier but win all the rare game where i am 1 tier below or or even more rare high tier (1/20 maybe)

I think you are making a link there where there is none. If you are bottom tier then you certainly wont be expected to be carrying the team (although it can happen) but if you support your teammates and dont get sunk you can certainly contribute.

Actually had a T5-7 game last night (there were T6 CV on the teams) when grinding my RU BB where myself and another tier 5 (T22) managed to come top two on our team in an incredibly close win. Managed to kill the enemy Lyon with 2k HP to spare and the CV took another 3-4 strikes to finish me thanks to a smoke from the friendly DD and some dodging of plane attacks - meanwhile our sub (after some persuasion) capped and we scraped a win that would have been a loss without us bottom tiers putting up a hell of a fight. Wont happen every time but that doesnt mean its not possible.

[christof]

Originally posted by Doomed:

Originally posted by christof:

That's kind of why I ask. "A few" is not a good basis here. How many battles have you actually jotted down the tiers?

Well it is so many that im actually suprised that i get maybe 2-3 games a day where it dont have to fight 2 tier higher ships.
Now right after i left a critical comment WOW stopped syncing with steam for the first time ever. Really regret putting time and money into this now.

How many is "so many"? Because Hiei had one thing right: Things like that tend to stand out and be remembered much more than the opposite. So while it is perfectly plausible for you to having something of a streak right now. It is also quite likely that if we were to look over all of your matches of tier VII and above, it wouldn't actually look that lop-sided.

And the last part of your statement does not really lend the rest of it credibility. That is drifting into slippery territory there.

[Dood]

Originally posted by Banzai:

I cant think of a CV that would be completely ineffectual when downtiered - they literally all still have utility. You just have to play smart and pick your targets carefully while spotting and preserving as many planes as possible and avoiding groups of AA ships.

The other team will have exactly the same mix of tiers (most of the time - sometimes skewed due to divisions) and their CV will always be the same tier as you so they have the same challenge to make themselves useful.

Originally posted by Doomed:

I lose nearly all games where i am 1 of 2 ships of the lowest tier but win all the rare game where i am 1 tier below or or even more rare high tier (1/20 maybe)

I think you are making a link there where there is none. If you are bottom tier then you certainly wont be expected to be carrying the team (although it can happen) but if you support your teammates and dont get sunk you can certainly contribute.

Actually had a T5-7 game last night (there were T6 CV on the teams) when grinding my RU BB where myself and another tier 5 (T22) managed to come top two on our team in an incredibly close win. Managed to kill the enemy Lyon with 2k HP to spare and the CV took another 3-4 strikes to finish me thanks to a smoke from the friendly DD and some dodging of plane attacks - meanwhile our sub (after some persuasion) capped and we scraped a win that would have been a loss without us bottom tiers putting up a hell of a fight. Wont happen every time but that doesnt mean its not possible.

Yeah lower tiers like 7 and below everything is fine.. once i start to play my tier 8 and 9 ships then i mostly get t10 and t11 ships to fight, i guess it is because there are so many of the highest tiers. I am not enjoying myself when its only a support role especially when my high tier ships have almost no commander points or equipment because its not very long since i got them. I guess i ran into the paywall.. strategically placement tho .. i can respect that.

[Dood]

Originally posted by christof:

Originally posted by Doomed:

Well it is so many that im actually suprised that i get maybe 2-3 games a day where it dont have to fight 2 tier higher ships.
Now right after i left a critical comment WOW stopped syncing with steam for the first time ever. Really regret putting time and money into this now.

How many is "so many"? Because Hiei had one thing right: Things like that tend to stand out and be remembered much more than the opposite. So while it is perfectly plausible for you to having something of a streak right now. It is also quite likely that if we were to look over all of your matches of tier VII and above, it wouldn't actually look that lop-sided.

And the last part of your statement does not really lend the rest of it credibility. That is drifting into slippery territory there.

I have noticed a significant difference between low tier(up to 7) and high tier matches so my memory is fine , eventho you suggest its not.

[christof]

Nothing paywall about it. Money does not buy captain's or ship experience. And you get quite a bit of free experience even without converting elite ship xp into it (which is horrlbly inefficient anyway). Equipment is more of a problem maybe, but not one that should hold you up for long. It is also not a bad idea to not buy a new commander for every ship. Bring a commander up while you're grinding through the line and he will be pretty strong by the time you reach the higher tiers.

Tier VII is the first tier that can both be double up- and down-tiered. (Both V and VI can be low-tier in a three tier battle but only high-tier in a two tier one.) So if you're not experiencing problems at tier VII, it is certain not to be a deliberate system mechanic against you. I do have to say that I seem to meet more players playing at VII-X than at V-VI (even when adjusting for the wider spread of tiers I mean). But that should hit you at tier VII already, what with the many tier IX players.

And from the way this sounds, you do have far less battles at tiers VIII and up then below. So it honestly seems to me that even if your numbers above are more or less correct, you just got unlucky over a small amount of battles. And it definitely should tare out over a larger one, once you play for longer.

[Dood]

Well playing nearly only vs t10 and t11 as a t8 and t9i hardly get any xp or money.. many times i lose money with Der Grosse, Ricochet, over penetration, out ranged(it has like 18.5km range i think. Everyone tries to target my big BB too since its very visible and easy to damage with the top tier ships. When i have a really good game i make maybe 40-50k money so yeah its been slow and have played in tier 8 -9 ships like 200 games.

I played in t7 with the Heinrich and that was awesome.. also somewhat more t8-t9 then same or lower tiers but i had tons off succes with that ship.. the problems started when i reached the t8 paywall.
I have spend money on this game and i was probably going t spend more but not when im forced like this.

[Banzai]

Originally posted by Doomed:

Yeah lower tiers like 7 and below everything is fine.. once i start to play my tier 8 and 9 ships then i mostly get t10 and t11 ships to fight, i guess it is because there are so many of the highest tiers. I am not enjoying myself when its only a support role especially when my high tier ships have almost no commander points or equipment because its not very long since i got them. I guess i ran into the paywall.. strategically placement tho .. i can respect that.

Ah was just one example - also played a T8 CV in same session and got T10 MM. Actually managed to get a Halland to beach himself dodging my plane attack and kept him spotted (ducking in and out of his AA) while my team killed him, and again made a decent contribution to the win. Funniest part was our own Halland panicking and hiding when their Lexington's planes were close. Ive honestly had super CVs complain about how OP my Hallands AA is so this made me laugh :)

[Dood]

Originally posted by Banzai:

Originally posted by Doomed:

Yeah lower tiers like 7 and below everything is fine.. once i start to play my tier 8 and 9 ships then i mostly get t10 and t11 ships to fight, i guess it is because there are so many of the highest tiers. I am not enjoying myself when its only a support role especially when my high tier ships have almost no commander points or equipment because its not very long since i got them. I guess i ran into the paywall.. strategically placement tho .. i can respect that.

Ah was just one example - also played a T8 CV in same session and got T10 MM. Actually managed to get a Halland to beach himself dodging my plane attack and kept him spotted (ducking in and out of his AA) while my team killed him, and again made a decent contribution to the win. Funniest part was our own Halland panicking and hiding when their Lexington's planes were close. Ive honestly had super CVs complain about how OP my Hallands AA is so this made me laugh :)

Yeah think i got to t6 ship in the european line.. omw to the halland with super fast torps but at this rate its 2 much grinding to buy all the ships i want, without spending real money.
I made some really good money with the Heinrich 300k+ (its allot for me) but its maxed and bought the zieten.. that thing is just so much worse because it has only 1 frontal battery, so i end up always having to show broadside vs much higher tiered ships.. and like i said almost no xp or money in that ship so its a weak zieten vs mostly experienced players with prob good equip, xp and commanders. Not much fun.

[Banzai]

Originally posted by Doomed:

Originally posted by Banzai:

Ah was just one example - also played a T8 CV in same session and got T10 MM. Actually managed to get a Halland to beach himself dodging my plane attack and kept him spotted (ducking in and out of his AA) while my team killed him, and again made a decent contribution to the win. Funniest part was our own Halland panicking and hiding when their Lexington's planes were close. Ive honestly had super CVs complain about how OP my Hallands AA is so this made me laugh :)

Yeah think i got to t6 ship in the european line.. omw to the halland with super fast torps but at this rate its 2 much grinding to buy all the ships i want, without spending real money.
I made some really good money with the Heinrich 300k+ (its allot for me) but its maxed and bought the zieten.. that thing is just so much worse because it has only 1 frontal battery, so i end up always having to show broadside vs much higher tiered ships.. and like i said almost no xp or money in that ship so its a weak zieten vs mostly experienced players with prob good equip, xp and commanders. Not much fun.

I appreciate we are wandering off topic a little but Zieten is sometimes most effective angled and reversing towards the enemy (especially if they wander into your sec range). Im not suggesting spending the whole game in reverse but when u get to where you want to be fighting you can take this sort of position and use your rear turrets and torps while being angled making it hard for the enemy to damage you. You can even use the front turret as well (has decent fire angles) with a little wiggling when doing this and you are already pointing in the right direction if you need to run and kite.

Good luck anyway :)