Overpenetration

[Data-7]

I know the BBs have overpenetration vs Cruisers and DDs but many times seem the game is just bugged, last game i played by my Iowa a Roon just stand in front of me, he gived me the side and stop the engine i hit him at last 4-5 times by the main gun (six 406) give 4k damage. Hit 4 times by 6 gun mean he get 24 hits in center of the ship it's really unrealistic system. Overpen is ok but can't work in this way, it's just ridiculus.

[Dani :3]

Originally posted by Data-7:

I know the BBs have overpenetration vs Cruisers and DDs but many times seem the game is just bugged, last game i played by my Iowa a Roon just stand in front of me, he gived me the side and stop the engine i hit him at last 4-5 times by the main gun (six 406) give 4k damage. Hit 4 times by 6 gun mean he get 24 hits in center of the ship it's really unrealistic system. Overpen is ok but can't work in this way, it's just ridiculus.

If you're overpenning every shot on a stationary cruiser then you're aiming too high. The citadel is located at the waterline, and you should aim for there with your AP.

[Firewalk]

You wanna know a real overpen nightmare, try the Roma, I dare you.

- RA -

[CMDR Sweeper]

Or go to the Harpoon Rack and let them have one of those nice slow moving death machines.
Just remember to say "Overpen this!" first as the missile causes a nasty nasty flooding hit :D

[Donegali]

It sounds like the Roon was quite close, overpens occur quite often in that scenario as the gun velocity pushes it through the armour too quickly for the shell to arm, it works at longer ranges due to the air drag slowing the shell down. As said above either aim at the waterline or fractionally below it (like 1mm), as the shell passes through the water it will slow down enough to arm. If it still happens aim even lower. An alternative would be to load HE.

Originally posted by Data-7:

Overpen is ok but can't work in this way, it's just ridiculus.

It's just a case of learning these things, not a big deal.

[Data-7]

Originally posted by Donegali:

It sounds like the Roon was quite close, overpens occur quite often in that scenario as the gun velocity pushes it through the armour too quickly for the shell to arm, it works at longer ranges due to the air drag slowing the shell down. As said above either aim at the waterline or fractionally below it (like 1mm), as the shell passes through the water it will slow down enough to arm. If it still happens aim even lower. An alternative would be to load HE.

Originally posted by Data-7:

Overpen is ok but can't work in this way, it's just ridiculus.

It's just a case of learning these things, not a big deal.

Start shot at 10km till 4km, at last the secondary saved me. Also if the shells don't explode inside the ship i repeat it's ridiculus, Also in a tank fight we have penetrator who don't have explosive inside but can take out a tank and crew from sparkle and fire, damage are not cause only by explosion, Ships are not empty an 24 big holes in center will destroy the engine and every other thing inside not just pass through.
I understand what you say and i can understand they just try to balance the game but from a historical and realistic point of view all this is very sad, fortunately the game is "free" because i would never buy it in these conditions.

[Pity*]

Some ships has their citadels underwater so at close range its impossible to hit that part, other ships just has a troll citadel... like the roon. xD

[Donegali]

Originally posted by Data-7:

Start shot at 10km till 4km, at last the secondary saved me. Also if the shells don't explode inside the ship i repeat it's ridiculus, Also in a tank fight we have penetrator who don't have explosive inside but can take out a tank and crew from sparkle and fire, damage are not cause only by explosion,

I would suggest to forget shells from tanks, we don't have anything like penetrators as most crew will be in either the superstructure, guns or engine room. Tanks have penetrators because the crew are in one small space.

Originally posted by Data-7:

Ships are not empty an 24 big holes in center will destroy the engine and every other thing inside not just pass through.

That is how shells work, they need to hit something that is thick enough to arm them, they will pass through if they don't hit anything thick enough. Ships also have crew quarters/mess rooms etc for several hundred/thousand men and I believe hitting a citadel is hitting the engines etc. This is why it is suggested that you aim at or below the water line.

Originally posted by Data-7:

I understand what you say and i can understand they just try to balance the game but from a historical and realistic point of view all this is very sad, fortunately the game is "free" because i would never buy it in these conditions.

But you're misunderstanding, because historically and realistically, this is how shells work.

As for 'buying' the game, well that is your choice and the great thing about WG's model, you can pay towards development or play it free. Personally I enjoyed it so much it wasn't long before I started paying for premium and spent many hours working out all the mechanics. This was before WG actually did all the mechanic videos.

[Ryuu]

Roon got insane armor scheme BTW, check out in the port. Click on layers on the right to remove them. Pretty hard to citadel it up close unlike other cruisers.

[Data-7]

i think just the game mechanic penalize the BBs, last battle played by the NC happned the same vs a DD also if i used HE, i was very near about 1-2 km he give me the side and i hit him 2 times (406 x12 hits) cause just small damage, there's no giustification for this except they want make the BBs weak.
i will start to record the battle

[Donegali]

Originally posted by Data-7:

i think just the game mechanic penalize the BBs, ---snip--- there's no giustification for this except they want make the BBs weak.

That's the first time I've ever heard someone call BB's as a class weak, they are still the easiest class to play in game as they are so forgiving, the only class with a heal from the lowest tier and the easiest to rack up the damage with. Admittedly they can be punished if they push too early.

Bit confused about your comment on the DD, if you used HE you should get full penetrations, AP will only get over pens. As for recording, I believe replays are enabled by default now and the last 30 can be found under the reply folder.

[Data-7]

Really? it's strange because i hear people complain about this near every battle. I checked the replay when i spotted the DD i was at about 4km he use smoke and we was inside a storm so he surprised me, first shot was from 3Km by front main gun, 6 shell HE 3 miss (at 3km with a static target) 3 hits, 1 overpen 2 penetration tot damage 3700. Second shot was from 1Km 6 shell HE 5 penetration 5900 damage + 8 hits from secondary gun. Total 9600 maybe 10k if we consider the Secondary guns hits. Obviously he had all the time for load and torps me.

However even if the ship had taken flight i am sure that you would invent something, what you did not understand is that to justify the unjustifiable will not improve the game

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1686840366

[Dani :3]

Originally posted by Data-7:

Really? it's strange because i hear people complain about this near every battle. I checked the replay when i spotted the DD i was at about 4km he use smoke and we was inside a storm so he surprised me, first shot was from 3Km by front main gun, 6 shell HE 3 miss (at 3km with a static target) 3 hits, 1 overpen 2 penetration tot damage 3700. Second shot was from 1Km 6 shell HE 5 penetration 5900 damage + 8 hits from secondary gun. Total 9600 maybe 10k if we consider the Secondary guns hits. Obviously he had all the time for load and torps me.

However even if the ship had taken flight i am sure that you would invent something, what you did not understand is that to justify the unjustifiable will not improve the game

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1686840366

if you overpenned him, you were firing AP, end of discussion. Your second salvo was HE, but some shells hit and damaged the forward gun turrets of the DD. These hits show up as penetrations, but deal zero damage (they damage the hidden HP pool of the individual gun turrets they hit). A similar effect occurs whenever you hit AA mounts directly. You hit 8 shots in total, almost a full salvo. Three of them were the wrong ammo type and I would guess around 2 were 0 damage module hits, leaving 3 HE pens and 3 AP overpens, and yet you still took off 60-80% of his HP. How can you complain considering you messed up the ammo type and still crippled him in what amounts to a single salvo. Had you played the situation correctly you would have oneshotted him. How is that "weak"?

[Donegali]

Originally posted by Data-7:

However even if the ship had taken flight i am sure that you would invent something, what you did not understand is that to justify the unjustifiable will not improve the game

We've tried to explain how this works in RL and in game, we can't help it if you don't want to listen and would prefer to claim it is unjustifiable. I would suggest looking on Youtube and watching the penetration, ammo and over saturation mechanics, they would explain it far better than us trying to do it here.

Hopefully Ryuu can link the thread with all the videos.

EDIT: Found it, well worth watching. https://steamcommunity.com/app/552990/discussions/8/1727575977522138672/

[BirdDog]

AP mechanic is simply broken.