Airstrike madness

[casualsailor]

50k dmg and 4 fires in single strike?

Could it be that following its success with CVs that Wargaming has decided that the best way to promote the sale of Premium ships and camos is to create new ships so ridiculously OP that it will motivate individuals to quickly purchase them before they are nerfed so they may create the most toxic environment possible?

I'm sure when the player base begins to complain about these noxious players and their asinine ships Wargaming will be quick to note how the spreadsheet says everyone is having a jolly time.

Unfortunately something tells me this feature will not be effective against CVs. At least not until, as the Devs have noted, the sale of Premium CVs and ancillaries rises to the level to justify their development cost.

Everyone enjoy the new meta.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIndvZwM9cU

[Jackson]

Origineel geplaatst door Skakk:

Thats good to hear it will be tech tree.

I assumed it would be premium inniately so the option of purchase or requiring a boat load of missions to be completed to move up the premium line, similar to French DDs when they released or the new branch of Russian cruisers or German CV's.

I get that test servers or not so populated. I have access to them but i dont play on them as much due to low numbers off peak times. But its clearly OP, and should not be as strong on the main servers.

So the Dutch line will be open to research from day 1 of release?

Almost certainly they will not be fully open from the day of release, but all you have to do is wait for them. I have never paid anything to get access tech tree ships ahead of time - nor would I. If I get the missions done, so be it, but I surely wouldn't pay or advocate doing so :)

Origineel geplaatst door Kamiyama:

Origineel geplaatst door ReDiR:

WG will balance that if its needed before release, so no need to worry. I'm happy that Dutch cruiser line will be unique and not some generic line

Wait these are cruisers?

Dutch Cruisers are better at airstrikes than any of the CV's in existing CV lines?

I was saying in another thread if they're going to nerf CV's by giving them limited planes I want to YOLO all my planes in one giant airstrike.

But no one liked that idea because they think CV's are OP.

But apparently it's okay for a cruiser to have a YOLO plane blob?

It's like a spotter or fighter. You can only use it 3 times as well. It cannot be increased via Superintendent. It's nothing like a carrier.

[Guara Ookami]

Origineel geplaatst door Kamiyama:

Origineel geplaatst door ReDiR:

WG will balance that if its needed before release, so no need to worry. I'm happy that Dutch cruiser line will be unique and not some generic line

Wait these are cruisers?

Dutch Cruisers are better at airstrikes than any of the CV's in existing CV lines?

I was saying in another thread if they're going to nerf CV's by giving them limited planes I want to YOLO all my planes in one giant airstrike.

But no one liked that idea because they think CV's are OP.

But apparently it's okay for a cruiser to have a YOLO plane blob?

"better" airstrikes you have to consider they have long cooldown to reload, and the target must remain stationary for it to work, 3 and a half minutes of reload for 40K of damage IF you enemy is stationary while if you play CV well you can average 60K+ damage in the meantime with the enemy actively manuvering (for instance it takes 5 hakuryu torpedo strikes and 3 AP bomb drops to actively get 60K damage or more) so no they arent better in any way, just a tool to punish camping.
Last time you could yolo all yours planes was in RTS and that was broken if you were an good RTS player, crossdrop or just manual bomb aim was lethal against any ship that stood on your way, wich is why CV was reworked in the first place.

[Kamiyama]

Origineel geplaatst door Guara Ookami:

Origineel geplaatst door Kamiyama:

Wait these are cruisers?

Dutch Cruisers are better at airstrikes than any of the CV's in existing CV lines?

I was saying in another thread if they're going to nerf CV's by giving them limited planes I want to YOLO all my planes in one giant airstrike.

But no one liked that idea because they think CV's are OP.

But apparently it's okay for a cruiser to have a YOLO plane blob?

"better" airstrikes you have to consider they have long cooldown to reload, and the target must remain stationary for it to work, 3 and a half minutes of reload for 40K of damage IF you enemy is stationary while if you play CV well you can average 60K+ damage in the meantime with the enemy actively manuvering (for instance it takes 5 hakuryu torpedo strikes and 3 AP bomb drops to actively get 60K damage or more) so no they arent better in any way, just a tool to punish camping.
Last time you could yolo all yours planes was in RTS and that was broken if you were an good RTS player, crossdrop or just manual bomb aim was lethal against any ship that stood on your way, wich is why CV was reworked in the first place.

It's garbo. You're making excuses for a total lack of realism because it fits your favored style of gameplay.

Cruisers shouldn't have huge plane blobs and Carriers shouldn't be limited to 1 squadron at a time.

It should be the opposite.

World of Warships celebrating opposite day 365 days a year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zEGjlHZMiM

[Guara Ookami]

Origineel geplaatst door Kamiyama:

Origineel geplaatst door Guara Ookami:

"better" airstrikes you have to consider they have long cooldown to reload, and the target must remain stationary for it to work, 3 and a half minutes of reload for 40K of damage IF you enemy is stationary while if you play CV well you can average 60K+ damage in the meantime with the enemy actively manuvering (for instance it takes 5 hakuryu torpedo strikes and 3 AP bomb drops to actively get 60K damage or more) so no they arent better in any way, just a tool to punish camping.
Last time you could yolo all yours planes was in RTS and that was broken if you were an good RTS player, crossdrop or just manual bomb aim was lethal against any ship that stood on your way, wich is why CV was reworked in the first place.

It's garbo. You're making excuses for a total lack of realism because it fits your favored style of gameplay.

Cruisers shouldn't have huge plane blobs and Carriers shouldn't be limited to 1 squadron at a time.

It should be the opposite.

World of Warships celebrating opposite day 365 days a year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zEGjlHZMiM

No it never did favour my playstyle, i am a diehard RTS fan, Platinum rank on SC2, Ex Rank 13-14 on COH2 with british forces and oshteer and i am starting my way in AOE2, i was a big fan of RTS CV but WG needs to cater to the masses because apparently the skill floor of ship classes must be so close that a toddler would be able to wipe an entire team out.

That was the whole problem with RTS CV for most people is that one player would be completly outmatched, aka Strafed and would lose his planes, while another would dominate the enemy team.
Altho you can say that the enemy team had more counter play since the panic effect on AA was a huge way to protect your team.

I would be in favour of realism but wows takes its nature as an arcade game, ships with HP BARS, armour schemes that resemble french WW1-WW2 armor (for example dugay trouin IRL could be penetrated by tanks (Even early Panzer 3s and 4s) due to its thin armor of 30MM.

[Jackson]

Origineel geplaatst door Kamiyama:

Origineel geplaatst door Guara Ookami:

"better" airstrikes you have to consider they have long cooldown to reload, and the target must remain stationary for it to work, 3 and a half minutes of reload for 40K of damage IF you enemy is stationary while if you play CV well you can average 60K+ damage in the meantime with the enemy actively manuvering (for instance it takes 5 hakuryu torpedo strikes and 3 AP bomb drops to actively get 60K damage or more) so no they arent better in any way, just a tool to punish camping.
Last time you could yolo all yours planes was in RTS and that was broken if you were an good RTS player, crossdrop or just manual bomb aim was lethal against any ship that stood on your way, wich is why CV was reworked in the first place.

It's garbo. You're making excuses for a total lack of realism because it fits your favored style of gameplay.

Cruisers shouldn't have huge plane blobs and Carriers shouldn't be limited to 1 squadron at a time.

It should be the opposite.

World of Warships celebrating opposite day 365 days a year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zEGjlHZMiM

It's very realistic. Quite often surface ships could call in land based planes - in fact they were critical to quite a few battles.

[casualsailor]

Origineel geplaatst door Best HIEI:

You shouldn't listen to Flamu He's good and stuff but has spent his entire career trying to drudge up drama. I've seen a super old video of Yuro's where Flamu was in the back round trying to make drama.

Don't all the streamers try to attract an audience by being provocative?

Origineel geplaatst door Best HIEI:

The funny thing is, if he was ever that against war gaming he wouldn't have been a CC for this long before getting kicked off. But he didn't feel that strong a conviction because being advertised by War gaming brings new people to his channel which means he's got a bigger audience to sell to, then causing a bunch of drama gives the illusion that he cares which makes bandwagon-ers watch more because he's this big symbol and you're getting the truth about an evil company right from him.

I never said he was against Wargaming. But he's not alone in criticizing WGs decsions. As I recall there were few CCs who thought the "Pay-to-Rico" or the "Christmas Container" debacles were wise decisions.

Origineel geplaatst door Best HIEI:

As for average damage, Battle ships already have the highest average damage with the exception of some of the really hard to get steel/coal CVs which no surprise the better players get first because they already have the steel and coal saved up so the numbers are automatically inflated.
I'm not saying Wgs perfect or anything but people have this thing like a youtubers opinion and anecdotal evidence should be taken as fact. That isn't how statistics work.

I'm not going to argue with you or the spreadsheets. CVs do more average damage and have more battle influence than any other class. That's the verdict of WG.

Origineel geplaatst door Best HIEI:

The fact is there are so many premiums that come out as super lack luster or crap, yes some are amazing and great. Remember in the hands of a good player, even a bad ship can be made to look great. Case in point, watch Yuro's videos.
If you watch a streamer because you like them ok, but they do have opinions, they are not scientists, experts at game balancing, or mathematicians.
Personally I think Wargaming tries. I think there is a very long period of time between when you can tell a new ship/line is too good or falling into the right groove.
You have to track thousands of battles between tiers and between players.
Lets say the new Ultra laser firing battle ships of doom and power come out tomorrow. (Sounds op I know :>)
Now these ships have everything a boy could want.
You have to sort between all the players who have stock piles of exp or money laying around and buy themselves to the top. All the people who are super good and grind up in the blink of an eye.
The people who suck but play so much that they get up there as well.
And finally the super casual guy who plays maybe a couple of times a day.
Now obviously the good people and maybe the whales are going to just destroy the numbers and make them look broken, then the people who aren't quite as good are going to slowly drag the numbers down little by little when they get to the top.
Almost any line that ever comes out is usually seen instantly is being super OP but little by little they start to slip down and people talk about them less and less.
I'm not really an expert but this is quite how I see it.
You can pick one of the worst ships in the game. I guarantee you someone is going to think it's broken.

I'm quite looking forward to the Dutch line. I just fear they will lead to even more disharmony as like CVs they are able to inflict damage on a grand scale without risking to their own ships. I imagine there will be quite a few players like that Alaska in the video who find themselves victim of these invisible and invulnerable attackers and decide the game is not for them. Likewise there will be players who enjoy "punishing" their enemies with impunity.

How successful this meta will be is yet to be seen.

[dakin1]

Origineel geplaatst door Jack:

Origineel geplaatst door dakin1:

Do the airstrike aircraft just appear on the map right before dropping or can they be spotted flying across the map? Question about how effective AA will be against them.

Also looks like the Dutch ships have really low lying citadels, so I guess the approach would be to HE spam them and burn them to the ground? Can anyone who has tested them comment (without breaking any NDA info?).

They show up a few km out. Not sure how many exactly. Outside of AA range I'm pretty sure, but without a lot of time to prepare other than focus your AA.

This is complete garbage. A ship like Iowa IRL with radar would detect the airstrike from 20 km away and have full AA ready. WG must be completely off their minds to have these things appear out of thin air. Imagine a game with 2 Dutch cruisers in a Div, a couple Tone Japanese hybrids and a CV like FDR--three different airstrikes coming from different directions. They should take this concept and completely shove it up their arses.

[casualsailor]

Origineel geplaatst door dakin1:

Origineel geplaatst door Jack:

They show up a few km out. Not sure how many exactly. Outside of AA range I'm pretty sure, but without a lot of time to prepare other than focus your AA.

This is complete garbage. A ship like Iowa IRL with radar would detect the airstrike from 20 km away and have full AA ready. WG must be completely off their minds to have these things appear out of thin air. Imagine a game with 2 Dutch cruisers in a Div, a couple Tone Japanese hybrids and a CV like FDR--three different airstrikes coming from different directions. They should take this concept and completely shove it up their arses.

But the spreadsheet says you will have fun being the target of all that air power. Didn't the Alaska in that video seem like he was having fun?

[dakin1]

Origineel geplaatst door casualsailor:

Origineel geplaatst door dakin1:

This is complete garbage. A ship like Iowa IRL with radar would detect the airstrike from 20 km away and have full AA ready. WG must be completely off their minds to have these things appear out of thin air. Imagine a game with 2 Dutch cruisers in a Div, a couple Tone Japanese hybrids and a CV like FDR--three different airstrikes coming from different directions. They should take this concept and completely shove it up their arses.

But the spreadsheet says you will have fun being the target of all that air power. Didn't the Alaska in that video seem like he was having fun?

I saw the one where an Iowa took 66k damage from a double airstrike (2 Gouden Leeuw in a div) along with 1 million potential. Also the one where an Ohio was getting torpedo dropped by an FDR and taking an airstrike at the same time 3 minutes into a game. All of this from a country that lasted all of 2 weeks in WWII before getting knocked out of the war.

[Jackson]

Origineel geplaatst door dakin1:

Origineel geplaatst door Jack:

They show up a few km out. Not sure how many exactly. Outside of AA range I'm pretty sure, but without a lot of time to prepare other than focus your AA.

This is complete garbage. A ship like Iowa IRL with radar would detect the airstrike from 20 km away and have full AA ready. WG must be completely off their minds to have these things appear out of thin air. Imagine a game with 2 Dutch cruisers in a Div, a couple Tone Japanese hybrids and a CV like FDR--three different airstrikes coming from different directions. They should take this concept and completely shove it up their arses.

It's set up precisely to punish campers. Which I am 100% good with. Its' quite difficult to hit a moving target.

Origineel geplaatst door dakin1:

Origineel geplaatst door casualsailor:

But the spreadsheet says you will have fun being the target of all that air power. Didn't the Alaska in that video seem like he was having fun?

I saw the one where an Iowa took 66k damage from a double airstrike (2 Gouden Leeuw in a div) along with 1 million potential. Also the one where an Ohio was getting torpedo dropped by an FDR and taking an airstrike at the same time 3 minutes into a game. All of this from a country that lasted all of 2 weeks in WWII before getting knocked out of the war.

1 million potential damage? Each bomb can only do 5800. You're saying they're dropping 200 bombs? Were any of this ships underway and still getting hammered? Cause if so, that takes some skill. WG themselves said it would take some significant skill to use on a moving target. They're just changing the meta. And since every line lately has launched kinda OP then been nerfed, I have no doubt it'll happen again.

Sit still like Tirpitz get bombed like Tirpitz. At least they're not dropping blockbusters that do 60k damage or something :)

[dakin1]

Origineel geplaatst door Jack:

Origineel geplaatst door dakin1:

This is complete garbage. A ship like Iowa IRL with radar would detect the airstrike from 20 km away and have full AA ready. WG must be completely off their minds to have these things appear out of thin air. Imagine a game with 2 Dutch cruisers in a Div, a couple Tone Japanese hybrids and a CV like FDR--three different airstrikes coming from different directions. They should take this concept and completely shove it up their arses.

It's set up precisely to punish campers. Which I am 100% good with. Its' quite difficult to hit a moving target.

Origineel geplaatst door dakin1:

I saw the one where an Iowa took 66k damage from a double airstrike (2 Gouden Leeuw in a div) along with 1 million potential. Also the one where an Ohio was getting torpedo dropped by an FDR and taking an airstrike at the same time 3 minutes into a game. All of this from a country that lasted all of 2 weeks in WWII before getting knocked out of the war.

1 million potential damage? Each bomb can only do 5800. You're saying they're dropping 200 bombs? Were any of this ships underway and still getting hammered? Cause if so, that takes some skill. WG themselves said it would take some significant skill to use on a moving target. They're just changing the meta. And since every line lately has launched kinda OP then been nerfed, I have no doubt it'll happen again.

Sit still like Tirpitz get bombed like Tirpitz. At least they're not dropping blockbusters that do 60k damage or something :)

The Iowa got hit by airstrikes from 2 Dutch cruisers simultaneously (that's how it was 1 million potential)--you can look at the potential counter go from 300k to 1.3 million during the airstrike.

I wonder about ships like Montana/Vermont with 20+ second rudder shifts being able to effectively dodge airstrikes even if moving. Again, I expect this to get nerfed, but right now it looks very unbalanced.

[Nepgear]

Origineel geplaatst door dakin1:

Origineel geplaatst door Jack:

It's set up precisely to punish campers. Which I am 100% good with. Its' quite difficult to hit a moving target.



1 million potential damage? Each bomb can only do 5800. You're saying they're dropping 200 bombs? Were any of this ships underway and still getting hammered? Cause if so, that takes some skill. WG themselves said it would take some significant skill to use on a moving target. They're just changing the meta. And since every line lately has launched kinda OP then been nerfed, I have no doubt it'll happen again.

Sit still like Tirpitz get bombed like Tirpitz. At least they're not dropping blockbusters that do 60k damage or something :)

The Iowa got hit by airstrikes from 2 Dutch cruisers simultaneously (that's how it was 1 million potential)--you can look at the potential counter go from 300k to 1.3 million during the airstrike.

I wonder about ships like Montana/Vermont with 20+ second rudder shifts being able to effectively dodge airstrikes even if moving. Again, I expect this to get nerfed, but right now it looks very unbalanced.

Even if they could dodge they'd just get blapped by a yammy or something instead while they turn broadside.

[Evil donut]

Yeah, Flamu is a good player but a very bad source for information overall. He is selling drama. I would not trust his information.

[York]

Origineel geplaatst door Der den Döner klaut:

Yeah, Flamu is a good player but a very bad source for information overall. He is selling drama. I would not trust his information.

he gets somethings right but his entire job is farming outrage

(look at the current nozoup situation he still brings it back to being about himself for some reason. context nozoup has said some...............intresting things.)

[dakin1]

Origineel geplaatst door The iron warsmith:

Origineel geplaatst door Der den Döner klaut:

Yeah, Flamu is a good player but a very bad source for information overall. He is selling drama. I would not trust his information.

he gets somethings right but his entire job is farming outrage

(look at the current nozoup situation he still brings it back to being about himself for some reason. context nozoup has said some...............intresting things.)

If Zoup is really an officer in the US military like he claims he is, he should be brought up on charges of conduct unbecoming an officer for his recent tweets.