“Superships” tier of ships.

[kamikazi21358]

If anyone didn’t see, there are going to be superships returning in 0.10.10 that are going to be in ranked. These include Satsuma and Hannover, two auto loading cruisers (Annapolis and a French supercruiser), and some kind of autoloading superkabharosk and a new Japanese torpedo boat that might be the Shimakaze-Kai design, that shoots two different kinds of torpedoes.



So if there is like a tier 11, what kind of ships do you want to see? What concerns are there?



I think it would be good for tier 8, since that would take away some of the tier 9-10 ships into uptiers. They sound like upgrades of tier 10s almost, so they hopefully are not too strong, and since it probably will be 99% hypothetical ships, I hope they don’t overshadow existing ships somehow.

As for ships I would like to see, personally, I think a supermontana would be awesome, since they actually did consider a Montana design with 18” guns. Also it’s been so long I forgot the name, but the old version of the Zaō, maybe a way buffed version of the Zaō would be fun? Maybe even in like Mogami-style turret design, with the triple turret, have an insane 15 high velocity 8” guns, but for the 13s reload and lower than average health? Unless there is actually a better design for it.

[dakin1]

Might as well go all the way to Tier 15 and add in modern ships with anti ship missiles and hypersonic torpedoes. None of this sounds really all that interesting--just more power creep into the game.

[Kamiyama]

Will they add the Tillman II design? aka the "Maximum Battleship"

70,000 tons (designed to pass through the Panama canal)
24 (twenty four) 16-inch guns in two superfiring turrets front and back with 6 guns each.
13 inch belt armor
26.5 knots maximum speed

There were later designs that were even larger and had 18 inch guns. But they likely would have exceeded the shipbuilding capability of the US Navy. The "Maximum Battleship" designs were intended to end the battleship arms race by simply building the largest most powerful battleship in the world by far, instead of this game of one-upmanship that naval powers were playing at the time. However the designs were shelved with the signing of the Washington Naval Treaty.

[kamikazi21358]

Originally posted by Kamiyama:

Will they add the Tillman II design? aka the "Maximum Battleship"

70,000 tons (designed to pass through the Panama canal)
24 (twenty four) 16-inch guns in two superfiring turrets front and back with 6 guns each.
13 inch belt armor
26.5 knots maximum speed

There were later designs that were even larger and had 18 inch guns. But they likely would have exceeded the shipbuilding capability of the US Navy. The "Maximum Battleship" designs were intended to end the battleship arms race by simply building the largest most powerful battleship in the world by far, instead of this game of one-upmanship that naval powers were playing at the time. However the designs were shelved with the signing of the Washington Naval Treaty.

That would be awesome. Probably the ultimate superdreadnaught?

[kamikazi21358]

I also wonder if they will be willing to move, not all obviously but a couple tier 10 ships to the new special tier (and buffed), if they’re powerful for tier 10, or if there isn’t much option otherwise.

Like for example, Halland has weak HP for it’s size, and can have better torpedo damage, (it has 2 more torpedoes then historical) but could have a booster, and more importantly, the 120mm reload is a-historical, it should be much faster — etc. Like it’s the larger destroyer for Sweden, there are a few lower tier options, but what if it was pushed up and buffed to more historical levels and stuff?

Same could apply to the Gearing, it’s the best US destroyer pre-missile age I think, unless they have a fictional design (understandable if so), but what if they made a Sumner a tier 10 and Gearing buffed for top tier?


Perhaps this could apply to some other really powerful ships, like Petropavlosk and such, since now tier 10 isn’t top tier anymore, or will not be. Like to the ships that are having to constantly be nerfed just to fit in the game, ships that are a-historically nerfed because they’re too powerful for tier 10, etc.

[kamikazi21358]

Also, this was under Design B-65’s wiki page:


“ In an attempt to counter the Alaska-class cruisers' 305 mm (12.0 in) guns, a proposal to increase both the main battery to six 356 mm (14 in) and armor protection to resist against the same was put forth. However, the increase in displacement (to almost 40,000 long tons (45,000 short tons; 41,000 t)) and reduction in performance this entailed meant that nothing came of the proposed changes.”


I know we have Yoshino and Azuma,
but,
Imagine another B-65 superships as the top tier cruiser for the Japanese line after Zaō.

It might actually work, since it is unarmoured, designed to resist 305mm heavy AP — it could have increased armor to help resist overmatch by battleship guns too as a result. The 6 14” guns would be less guns than usual, but maybe not only they would get improved HE damage*, but could also get the Shikishima’s ability of no dispersion every few shots. Combined of course with that Japanese cruisers have higher than average dispersion by itself.

As a result, probably would be slower than the other Japanese cruisers by a little bit, and maybe less concealment, but to be a ‘supership’, could be to have very high accuracy with battleship caliber guns with very high HE damage, thicker armor than previous B-65s to bounce more BB AP when dodging at ranged, and probably still have acceptable concealment and maneuverability.






* Using another nation that has guns of a similar caliber on a cruiser, even with bigger guns, you could still get something like:

German cruiser gun damage (HE)
150mm — 1700
203mm — 2500
305mm — 3600
380mm — 4400

Japanese cruiser gun damage (HE)
155mm — 2600
203mm — 3400
310mm — 5100
357mm — ?

(Using Zaō’s HE for the 203mm)

The average damage increase from Germany’s weaker HE to Japanese stronger HE is between 36% and 52% about, though with differences in caliber slightly.

Using this, it can be inferred that o. The weaker end, 357mms will be between 6,000 and 6,600 damage, though this is a small increase compared to the calibers admittedly — plus 4400 for 380mm guns, is obviously not a strong suit.

Using the increase in calibers (31% from 155mm to 203mm, 53% for 203 to 310, and 15% for 310 to 357),
HE output should be about 3,850-6,000 for 357mm cruiser HP.


(Battleship 14” is 5700 damage, but they don’t get the HP damage bonus like Japanese cruisers, why I am doing this math.)



So assuming the 357mms do 6,000 damage,
Azuma has 9 310mm guns with 3400 damage 20s reload,
theoretically has an HE output of 137,700 per minute.
So 6 357mm with 6000 damage and 20s reload
should theoretically have a 108,000 damage per minute.

So technically worse, but…
Shikishima goes from 9 460s to 6 510s, so like how B-65 goes from 9 310s to 6 357s, the reload should decrease.

So say hypothetically, it was a
17.1s reload — 126,000
15s reload — 144,000
Zaō’s 13.7s — 158,000

However, Yoshino does have a 18.5s base reload, and it’s the Tier 10. So,
Yoshino should be just under 150,000.

Since Yoshino is the tier 10 after all, using as an anolog,
Yamato to Shikishima is a 10% reload difference.
Based on Yoshino, it is about 16 some seconds, so a 15s reload is not unreasonable.


So if SuperB-65 gets a 15s reload, it’ll have massive alpha damage with HE, (excluding what AP can do Japanese AP isn’t bad), but about the same damage output in DPM compared to Yoshino.

But, it could be way more accurate, especially with the Satsuma’s skill, and being stronger, it can maybe have 27mm (or more) bow armor and more deck armor, etc., like previous Japanese cruisers — since some previous cruisers did have 38-41mm deck armor on a cruiser even.



Edit: Regarding HP pool,

The ship probably would have a MASSIVE hp pool for a cruiser, being 40,000+ tons. Stalingrad full load was supposed to be about 36,500 which has over 72k HP in game. So it is not unreasonable for this super B-65 to have maybe up to
potentially 75,000+ HP for a cruiser.
I don’t know though if this is loaded or not. Because then Stalingrad was 43kT estimated loaded, so then this ship probably would be less, maybe 65,000-70,000 HP. But if it is unloaded, then this ship probably could get into the high 70,000s in HP, depending on balance too, I doubt 80,000 though. But it surely will have the HP pool Zaō currently lacks.
Additionally, B-65 originally should be 31k dry and 35k heavy, and Yoshino is almost 63k HP. So even if 31k to 35k, this could be higher 60,000s. But if it is not so, then it will have the HP of a tier 8-9 battleship.








So, TL;DR,

it would have better damage, though only the same DPM.

Probably could have better accuracy since a supership (maybe)

And if they gave it stronger armor, maybe armor actually comparable with previous cruisers like Myōkō, Aobe, Atago, and even Furutaka at tier 5 has 48mm of deck armor. If they did this, since it is supposed to be stronger armored, I mean then 457s, 460s, and 510s wouldn’t be able to overmatch the deck even if it was 41mm like Atago or 48mm like Aobe and Furutaka, 32mm like Myōkō is more reasonable and it would shatter non-IFHE 152mms and prevent overmatch from 90% of the battleships it’ll see. Plus to be the response to the Alaska, 27mm of armor on the bow is not unreasonable.

Perhaps between 65,000-80,000 HP, depending if this is loaded mass or not, if not, then it is possible this thing could be over Stalingrad in HP with 75,000+ HP.

Concealment of these is about 15km, so it probably isn’t as good in that aspect. Top speed maybe would still be around 34 knots, at worse 33 knots as that was the requirement to reach. But it could maybe be given a better rudder shift? This would cement it as a supership.



As a result, it would probably be a Yoshino-like ship, with bigger guns like Siegfried (but with Japanese HE damage), and potentially Stalingrad level of HP and maybe even armor, while still having under 12km of concealment maxed out.

This sounds like a really fun supership for cruiser lovers.