Citadel 101

[Kamiyama]

I played my Queen Elizabeth today and got into a brawl with another BB. It stupidly exposed its sides to me so I was able to fire close range 90 degree salvos into its sides. I was firing AP and aiming below the smoke stack. (the tower belching the black smoke, not the comm tower)

I wasn't hitting the superstructure up on top of the deck. I was hitting the armor belt just above the water line. I saw my AP rounds hit, got the pop-up that said I penetrated, and saw little craters on the armor belt below the smokestack on the enemy ship. It hit the spot I aimed for and penetrated. But no citadel.

Someone in chat said I have to aim below the water line.

Is this true? From what I understand about the game mechanics is you can't fire below the water line. Shells that hit water create a splash animation and disappear don't they? The game just deletes them when they hit water.

Or am I wrong, and the game accurately models them as they travel through water?

Now it's also my understanding that if you overpenetrate a ship, and the shell would exit below the water line, it does not create flooding because (once again) the game can't handle shell trajectories through water.

This is correct yes?

Am I aiming at the right spot? I thought I was doing this right but I'd love to hear more.

[Ploof Ploof]

you can hit things below the water, but shooting below the waterline is not recomended. It massivly decreases the penetrating power of your shell (it slows down obviously) and you most likly end up hitting the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ torpedo protection belt.
For better results aim just above the waterline
also, you gotta sacrifice some virgins to the RNG gods so your shells actually land in their citadel. Lord knows how often i shot AP at a flat broadside cruiser with AP at sub 10km and only get a handfull of bounces and overpens. Infuriating

[Hiei]

Depends on the ship and the armor layout. The game accurately models pretty hecking well and I'm 85% sure you can hit below the water line if the ship is modeled like that
How ever shells can't cause flooding, probably due to balance.
Otherwise you'd be getting flooding and internal fires all the time.
(I admit I could be wrong though)

[FalterXV TTV]

Some ship models have citadels that sit below the waterline, and, while shells do curve, don't shoot directly *FOR* the water.

A lot of ships have torpedo bulges right at the water line amindship too.
This is something that you're going to have to learn by looking at the citadels of most ships in the game to figure out the optimal way to shoot at them.
However!

If you can not hit a ship's citadel, do not despair.
Full pen damage can often times be more reliable than aiming specifically for the citadel. Especially with smaller caliber weapony or against ships that have turtle backs (like German Battlecruisers and Heavy Cruisers,).
To guarantee full pens in those situations, aim for the upper belt of the ship. The strip that's right below the deck. Usually these strips are barely armored.

There's a lot to factor in and consider, and while you don't tell us what ship you were knife fighting, the main example I can think of that's like that, is the King George V. She has a citadel which sits below the water line, and can only really be hit if she's somewhat angled at you while you are ahead of her.

An example of what your source is talking about is this :
https://youtu.be/lvijcsYQxY8?t=24

(time stamped)

Where the citadel rests below the water line, so you have to arc your shells into it by aiming at the ship's citadel while approaching it, placing your shot ON the water so that the ship (and the shell) travel into your shot.

[dakin1]

Originally posted by The Imperial Best HIEI:

Depends on the ship and the armor layout. The game accurately models pretty hecking well and I'm 85% sure you can hit below the water line if the ship is modeled like that
How ever shells can't cause flooding, probably due to balance.
Otherwise you'd be getting flooding and internal fires all the time.
(I admit I could be wrong though)

I believe flooding from AP pens was in the game earlier, but was removed because it added another layer of aggravation/complexity to the game play.

If you are interested in where to aim to hit a citadel, bring up the ship in question in your port and look at the armor layout. You can remove various layers of armor (bow, superstructure, torpedo belt, etc) to see how big the citadel is and also how far up from the waterline it extends. Some ships have citadels that are entirely under water, so the only way to get a citadel hit is from plunging fire from range (a shell that penetrates through the deck armor into the citadel). Some ships are relatively easy to citadel at close range, while others actually become very difficult if not impossible to citadel up close based on their armor schemes and citadel location.

[Jackson]

Originally posted by The Imperial Best HIEI:

Depends on the ship and the armor layout. The game accurately models pretty hecking well and I'm 85% sure you can hit below the water line if the ship is modeled like that
How ever shells can't cause flooding, probably due to balance.
Otherwise you'd be getting flooding and internal fires all the time.
(I admit I could be wrong though)

That's at least partially correct. They originally had flooding from shells in alpha I believe. I started in beta and it wasn't a thing then.

[Totally Innocent Chatbot]

Depends on what the other BB was mainly. If it was German, then it's virtually impossible to citadel, especially with a British battleship thanks to their counterproductive short-fuse AP.

While yes, shells can hit below the waterline - they do not simply despawn the instant they touch the water - the area in which your shells need to land to do so is extremely small, and thanks to vertical shell dispersion it's just as likely that they'll splash a full hundred meters before the ship you were aiming at instead, so it's never a good idea to intentionally aim below the waterline.

[imrahil2]

Originally posted by dakin1:

I believe flooding from AP pens was in the game earlier, but was removed because it added another layer of aggravation/complexity to the game play.

Yeah you could cause floods with below waterline hits in the alpha. So what players would do is use even low caliber AP to hit thin armor like on the bow or stern below the waterline and instant floods. Flooding back in the old days lasted way longer and the DOT was so strong one flood would often kill you if your DC was on cooldown.

[Karmaterrorᵁᴷ]

Sure someone already said it but some ships have "sweet spots" that arent directly under the smoke stack. Its a good rule of thumb if you dont know where the citadel is, but some ships its bet to aim towards the front, something like Izumo Its the rear "cheeks" that give easy citadels. Just have to build up this library of ships in your head and where is best to aim on them :)