My opinions about Submarines

[Neufert]

I've tried each submarines almost 15 times.

1- Submarines are too weak than real .
2- Ping system is too hard. If they moving around you with circle, you don't have any chance. I've watching almost 7-8 gameplay but all of them seems not realistic. These are just like movie. No mistake, each torpedos attack almost succesfully in gameplay video. No one don't try running from torpedos :)) In this game, 1 dd destroy submarines inside of 4-5 second. Also safety deep didn't working. Everytime you died. You can't move without your team.
3- Deep silence don't working.
4- Until you reach to enemy ships location and ping, Already your team destroy all targets before than you.
5- I'm tried catch 1 dd with ping, and until catch 2 ping, i saw only left 1 enemy

6- ships can detect you with sonar but you can't detect ships same range...

7- Submarines are scary war machines for ships. All ships running in real life but in this game, all ships coming to you, because you can't hide from ships and they can destroy you inside of the 3-4 sec.

Don't be surprised, don't wait for amazing war. Actually submarines shouldn't too weak like this.

[shackle]

actually Im pretty impressed...just managed a sub on sub kill underwater...and it was exciting....can see sub duelling coming into the game....

sure the mechanics arnt that easy...turning and keeping track of direction can be confusing...and at the moment dds are poison...but deep diving does work for me....so Im not sure whether that really is broken.

Early days but overall I would say when the higher tier subs kick in with more experienced captains..its gonna be a blast...pings forget em until you get the aiming and other mechanics right..all they end up doing is keep you preoccupied...

and I would prefer a single torp fire at a time increases spread and poss of hitting....

[Netharon]

Първоначално публикувано от shackle:

actually Im pretty impressed...just managed a sub on sub kill underwater...and it was exciting....can see sub duelling coming into the game....

sure the mechanics arnt that easy...turning and keeping track of direction can be confusing...and at the moment dds are poison...but deep diving does work for me....so Im not sure whether that really is broken.

Early days but overall I would say when the higher tier subs kick in with more experienced captains..its gonna be a blast...pings forget em until you get the aiming and other mechanics right..all they end up doing is keep you preoccupied...

and I would prefer a single torp fire at a time increases spread and poss of hitting....

I agree with all your points here. I’m having a blast playing them. Sub vs sub is really fun. Tbh, in all the matches I have already played , I don’t really fire at battleships at all, I just defend against dds, cruisers, and nearby subs.

Extra props on the single fire torp idea. I would love that.

[Jolly_Rancher]

Just two cents on this topic. Played the game from the startup. It is a beer and pretzel wargame, with small maps, beautiful models, and semi-successful battles. Hiding behind rocks, no fleet tactics, and non existent ships from WWII, make it mediocre at best. Adding submarines, with these tiny maps is a far stretch from reality. Most ships sunk in WWII were by interdicting enemy supply routes, which cannot be simulated here. I have spent considerable money on the game, but submarines don't get my vote using the current system.

PS: One depth charge in the right location can absolutely sink a sub.

[Netharon]

Първоначално публикувано от Jolly_Rancher:

Just two cents on this topic. Played the game from the startup. It is a beer and pretzel wargame, with small maps, beautiful models, and semi-successful battles. Hiding behind rocks, no fleet tactics, and non existent ships from WWII, make it mediocre at best. Adding submarines, with these tiny maps is a far stretch from reality. Most ships sunk in WWII were by interdicting enemy supply routes, which cannot be simulated here. I have spent considerable money on the game, but submarines don't get my vote using the current system.

PS: One depth charge in the right location can absolutely sink a sub.

You won’t be able to make your argument based on historical accuracy because it would also open the door too wide on other inconsistencies in the game that have nothing to do with subs.

I agree on your depth charge statement though. I wouldn’t mind dropping them one by one with my own timing to detonate based on detection depth :)

[Jolly_Rancher]

Agree on both counts.

[shackle]

again..historical accuracy is not a given in this game....but dds did have a minimum speed at
which they had to go to avoid having their stern blown off by their own d/cs...kinda nice to be able to just sit on a sub a fire off one dc at a time...but too much in dds favour...In reality dds lost contact with the subs when on their final approach and blast until they worked in pairs...so subs had some chance to evade ...

again this is a new ship type in the game lets be constructive...and hope the devs and others respond ...why not survey those who actually played 50 games over the 20 days ....to add to the comments of those involved in beta testing..?

[MarktheMuffin]

Not had the chance to get my hands on a sub yet just coal, I have been playing mainly sub hunters when playing the mode, my buddy got his on first box and has stated that they are hard to master but then again he has also stated that this is his first time using them and in time with practice will get better.

So far I have two sub kills one by depth charge and one from ramming while trying to depth charge, imho it is far to early to give any negative feed back about subs and game mode until the end of the first stage of public testing and to be honest I have enjoyed every game that I have played in this mode so far, it makes a refreshing change from the norm, as soon as I can use a sub I will add to this thread about them, perhaps I will agree with most of what has been said so far, in the games that I have played I have only seen two good players use them on my team and it was a total blast to watch them, it looked as if they had used them before.

There is still a lot of testing to do until the balance is right and subs find their place mode in game, I for one hope they stay in game.

[Maj.Tryhard]

Първоначално публикувано от Lavian:

Първоначално публикувано от Netharon:

5km is like 5000 meters. Subs only go down max 80 meters in this game. I think the best thing they can do is add vertical detection to hydroacoustic search. I would say 50 meters vertical (along with 5km lateral) on the good German hydro, and go down from there on other nations. This way, the submarine max depth consumable going deeper than 50m isn’t useless.

The point of max depth is that it reduces depth charge damage and makes you invisible to passive hydrophones carried by destroyers. Active sonar of hydroacoustic search still catches you though.

But yeah, if we're talking 5 km in every direction, then your depth in WoWs pretty much doesn't matter. For all I know, that may already be how it works. It literally makes less than a meter of difference laterally.

Math, since it's not immediately obvious without doing the math (at least to me):
x is the lateral distance, 80 is the depth, 5000 is the hypotenuse/distance to the sub

80^2 + x^2 = 5000^2
6400 + x^2 = 25000000
x^2 = 25000000 - 6400
x = sqrt(24993600)
x = 4999.35995903

Now let's see you turn that into a percentage of likelihood that you'd remain undetected if at a random point within 5 lateral kilometers.

[baddoggs]

Some "fun facts" about sub's from that period.
Firstly, sonar was invented by the British during WW I. It was called "ASDIC" then.
They GAVE the tech, along with RADAR to the U.S. at the start of WW II as they
had not even discoverd tech like the"cavaty Magnatron" .
It had a range of around 1 kilometer and only gave a bearing on the target, you
had to guess the depth.
As far as torps are concerned, there were 3 kinds, contact, magnetic and towards
the end of the war acoustic. These were the method of DETONATION... There were no
"guided" torps in that period...period. IE: a "Magnetic torp is not "attracted to metal", it
merely detonates when close enough to a strong magnetic field. Acoustic torps worked
much the same way. As far as my research goes, i have found NOTHING to suggest
any sub had an "active" sonar that could "ping" a target ship... That came in the 50's..
along with "wire guided" torps. The actual "sonar" was actually called "Hydrophone"
and was a "passive" system fitted to subs, most DD's and frigates/sloops and some
cruisers.

Now, this is not a rant, nor do i think subs should be like this ingame.
These are just the facts i found by visiting the archives of the RN,USN,IJN and the
Kriegsmarine... Noteably... NOT wiki...

[Lavian]

Първоначално публикувано от baddoggs:

Some "fun facts" about sub's from that period.
Firstly, sonar was invented by the British during WW I. It was called "ASDIC" then.
They GAVE the tech, along with RADAR to the U.S. at the start of WW II as they
had not even discoverd tech like the"cavaty Magnatron" .
It had a range of around 1 kilometer and only gave a bearing on the target, you
had to guess the depth.
As far as torps are concerned, there were 3 kinds, contact, magnetic and towards
the end of the war acoustic. These were the method of DETONATION... There were no
"guided" torps in that period...period. IE: a "Magnetic torp is not "attracted to metal", it
merely detonates when close enough to a strong magnetic field. Acoustic torps worked
much the same way. As far as my research goes, i have found NOTHING to suggest
any sub had an "active" sonar that could "ping" a target ship... That came in the 50's..
along with "wire guided" torps. The actual "sonar" was actually called "Hydrophone"
and was a "passive" system fitted to subs, most DD's and frigates/sloops and some
cruisers.

Now, this is not a rant, nor do i think subs should be like this ingame.
These are just the facts i found by visiting the archives of the RN,USN,IJN and the
Kriegsmarine... Noteably... NOT wiki...

Well, wikis help sometimes. If you're particular about sources, they provide them.

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uiug.30112064674325&view=1up&seq=503

The United States had been working on active sonar with transmitter and receiver since the 1920s, with early versions being tested in 1927. By 1931, echo-ranging sonar had been developed for submarines. By 1933, development of this tech allowed for range of about 5 miles and speeds of up to 10 knots, which was deemed fine at the time since submarines didn't go faster than this while submerged.

By 1943 the hydrophone equipped on USN subs had been developed to a point where it could determine direction of sounds with in 10 miles.

The same document mentions towed decoys being used in 1943 to mislead acoustic homing torpedoes.

[Maj.Tryhard]

Първоначално публикувано от baddoggs:

Some "fun facts" about sub's from that period.
Firstly, sonar was invented by the British during WW I. It was called "ASDIC" then.
They GAVE the tech, along with RADAR to the U.S. at the start of WW II as they
had not even discoverd tech like the"cavaty Magnatron" .

And then we Americans humbly turned it into actually useful tech. Boy, those Brits really knew what they were doing when they handed off the torch.

[baddoggs]

Първоначално публикувано от Maj.Tryhard:

Първоначално публикувано от baddoggs:

Some "fun facts" about sub's from that period.
Firstly, sonar was invented by the British during WW I. It was called "ASDIC" then.
They GAVE the tech, along with RADAR to the U.S. at the start of WW II as they
had not even discoverd tech like the"cavaty Magnatron" .

And then we Americans humbly turned it into actually useful tech. Boy, those Brits really knew what they were doing when they handed off the torch.

Yeah, the Mk 48 is STILL in service with many Navy's around the world,
so i t scores highly for service life. Who could have guessed we would end up
using the components of a RADAR AKA Cav Mag.. To cook food... as an Aussie i
would say... Good on ya America...
Little known fact, by the end of the war, Australia went from fridge's being "rare as
rocking hose ♥♥♥♥" to commonpace... Mainly thanks to the generosity of the
American servicemen billeted with Aussie family's.. So, Cheers for that as well...

[Maj.Tryhard]

Първоначално публикувано от baddoggs:

Първоначално публикувано от Maj.Tryhard:

And then we Americans humbly turned it into actually useful tech. Boy, those Brits really knew what they were doing when they handed off the torch.

Yeah, the Mk 48 is STILL in service with many Navy's around the world,
so i t scores highly for service life. Who could have guessed we would end up
using the components of a RADAR AKA Cav Mag.. To cook food... as an Aussie i
would say... Good on ya America...
Little known fact, by the end of the war, Australia went from fridge's being "rare as
rocking hose ♥♥♥♥" to commonpace... Mainly thanks to the generosity of the
American servicemen billeted with Aussie family's.. So, Cheers for that as well...

Well, cheers, but I was mainly just being a ♥♥♥♥. From what I've read, most of that tech was developed over decades using research from several different nations. Subs came into play well before WWI, and some of the "advanced tech" was being attempted that early as well. It just took until WW2 to get it working properly.

[baddoggs]

Първоначално публикувано от Maj.Tryhard:

Първоначално публикувано от baddoggs:

Yeah, the Mk 48 is STILL in service with many Navy's around the world,
so i t scores highly for service life. Who could have guessed we would end up
using the components of a RADAR AKA Cav Mag.. To cook food... as an Aussie i
would say... Good on ya America...
Little known fact, by the end of the war, Australia went from fridge's being "rare as
rocking hose ♥♥♥♥" to commonpace... Mainly thanks to the generosity of the
American servicemen billeted with Aussie family's.. So, Cheers for that as well...

Well, cheers, but I was mainly just being a ♥♥♥♥. From what I've read, most of that tech was developed over decades using research from several different nations. Subs came into play well before WWI, and some of the "advanced tech" was being attempted that early as well. It just took until WW2 to get it working properly.

Yeah, i know...just used to it... in a "NICE" way.

I believe the first sub attack was during the American war of Independence.
The driver of said sub actually made it to the target AND BACK...
Unfortunately the ship he attacked had copper plate nailed to the hull*
and could not get the screw to attach the charge to "bite" so could not
attach said charge.

* the plate was introduced before this event to help slow the spread of
"shipworm" throughout the wooden hull...

[Neufert]

Guys, why you talking about history or realism ? It's just game and everyone playing for fun, not for learn the history or technology. As you knows, sometimes submarines following their target during 2 days or 2 week in real life. Is that possible ? We don't talk about this. I can't enjoy with submarines. Why nobody don't use BB ? because too weak to against to submarines and therefore Submarines too weak aganist to DD. This reason, i'm talking about for myself, never i play with these submarines . Game mechanics and their ability is too weak. I believe they will improve this.