IJN Destroyer Line

[Maj.Tryhard]

I'll be moving up to a T5 IJN destroyer soon, and I'm a little confused by the split in the line. Is one line supposed to be heavy and the other light?

I looked through the stats down the line, and the majority of them seem to go back and forth. The only sense I could make of it is that the Mutsuki path seems to have higher rated torpedoes.

Can anybody shed some light on this for me? I'm having a hard time deciding which way I should go, as I don't understand completely what I'm choosing between.

[Sidian]

The Akizuki, Kitakaze and Harugumo are gunboats, so the majority of their damage will be caused by their guns.
The ships before those are basically just "filler".

[HoLeeKow]

And If You like torps then take the way up to shimakaze
Note that concealment is best with the torp boats so that’s sneaky play , gunboats you will be seen more

[😸Neko]

One branch are torpboats and another gunboats (+relatively good AA, without DefAA though).

Not really filler though, even Minekaze is a better gunboat than Mutsuki with 4 guns vs 2.
Fubuki vs Hatsuharu not so much, but still one is smaller and faster.
Akatsuki vs Shiratsuyu are a weird pair though, but still not taking consumable into account 1st one has more torps, so eh… more torpboaty?
But yeah, it all starts with Akizuki.

[Sidian]

Originally posted by Purrfürst:

Not really filler though, even Minekaze is a better gunboat than Mutsuki with 4 guns vs 2.

Well, they are almost equal when fully upgraded (Minekaze has double the guns but also almost double the reload, while damage per shell and fire chance are the same), and both still have the worst fire power of all DDs at their tier (not counting their premium versions of course).

The same is true for the other IJN destroyers and only excludes the Akizuki, Kitakaze and Harugumo, that's why the other ships of that line (Minekaze, Hatsuharu and Shiratsuyu) can't be called "gunboats", and that's why i called them "filler". They are just different torpedo boats in the gunboat line.

[Maj.Tryhard]

Hmm. So how weak are the guns in the Mutsuki line?

I'm leaning toward the torpedo boats, but it might be hard to contribute to the battle if my guns are completely ineffective. And I would imagine the IJN gunboats still have pretty good torpedoes, though in all honesty I might just be wooed by their long range after running USN torpedoes most of the time.

[😸Neko]

True, they're not truly gunboats, but still a little bit more gunboaty than the ones from the torpboat line.
And you can notice they're also less torpboaty:
- Minekaze now has quite slow torps, though the amount in the salvo is the same as for Mutsuki (3x2 vs 2x3), also shorter range.
- Hatsuharu only has 2x3 vs 3x3
- Shiratsuyu only 2x4 vs 3x3 and torpedo reload consumable now requires you to swap it for smoke.

In return those 2 last have better concealment though, but with tier 8+ it becomes the opposite.

[😸Neko]

Originally posted by Maj.Tryhard:

Hmm. So how weak are the guns in the Mutsuki line?

I'm leaning toward the torpedo boats, but it might be hard to contribute to the battle if my guns are completely ineffective. And I would imagine the IJN gunboats still have pretty good torpedoes, though in all honesty I might just be wooed by their long range after running USN torpedoes most of the time.

IJN guns in twin mounts are all good, they have good damage and great ballistics like USSR DD guns. But they pay for that with slow rotation(like USSR) and slow reloads.

The feature of torpboat line — 2x2 guns in the rear, meaning you can dish out some damage on retreat while presenting a really small target (don't use forward gun in that situation). That way i could 1 vs 1 Benson as Kagero in ranked, and that was even before IJN shells got a bit buffed.

But IJN have low health pools, so getting into gun duels requires extreme caution. Fire chances are also not bad, in return for slow rate of fire.

I'd recommend using gun rotation upgrade for them by the way, being able to actually rotate your guns is worth a little bit of DPM lost in my opinion.

Check out wiki btw for some info: http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Mutsuki

[Maj.Tryhard]

Alright, thanks for the advice yall. I think I'll be goin with the Mutsuki. It'll take some getting used to, after running mostly USN so far, but I'm eager to try some stealth torpedo tactics.

[Rabidnid]

Originally posted by Maj.Tryhard:

Hmm. So how weak are the guns in the Mutsuki line?

I'm leaning toward the torpedo boats, but it might be hard to contribute to the battle if my guns are completely ineffective. And I would imagine the IJN gunboats still have pretty good torpedoes, though in all honesty I might just be wooed by their long range after running USN torpedoes most of the time.

They are torpedo boats and your guns are slightly better than cosmetic. The IJN 5" gun was buffed recently and it is quite damaging, but you need to have more HP or some other advantage before you can take on another DD on equal terms. US and Pan Asian DDs will destroy you 7 times out of 10 even if you fire first.

Another line to consider is Pan Asian. They are basically the UK/US line with better torps but no DFAA. 5 smoke rather than 3 is also very easy to get used to.

[Maj.Tryhard]

Originally posted by Rabidnid:

Originally posted by Maj.Tryhard:

Hmm. So how weak are the guns in the Mutsuki line?

I'm leaning toward the torpedo boats, but it might be hard to contribute to the battle if my guns are completely ineffective. And I would imagine the IJN gunboats still have pretty good torpedoes, though in all honesty I might just be wooed by their long range after running USN torpedoes most of the time.

They are torpedo boats and your guns are slightly better than cosmetic. The IJN 5" gun was buffed recently and it is quite damaging, but you need to have more HP or some other advantage before you can take on another DD on equal terms. US and Pan Asian DDs will destroy you 7 times out of 10 even if you fire first.

Another line to consider is Pan Asian. They are basically the UK/US line with better torps but no DFAA. 5 smoke rather than 3 is also very easy to get used to.

But don't the Pan Asian destroyers have something like 'deep torpedoes' than can't hit other destroyers?

And are you saying US and UK destroyers perform about the same? I just started working on a couple UK ships. It'd be good to know if I can use similar tactics.

P.S. "slightly better than cosmetic." lol I like how you worded that.

[Rabidnid]

Originally posted by Maj.Tryhard:

Originally posted by Rabidnid:

They are torpedo boats and your guns are slightly better than cosmetic. The IJN 5" gun was buffed recently and it is quite damaging, but you need to have more HP or some other advantage before you can take on another DD on equal terms. US and Pan Asian DDs will destroy you 7 times out of 10 even if you fire first.

Another line to consider is Pan Asian. They are basically the UK/US line with better torps but no DFAA. 5 smoke rather than 3 is also very easy to get used to.

But don't the Pan Asian destroyers have something like 'deep torpedoes' than can't hit other destroyers?

And are you saying US and UK destroyers perform about the same? I just started working on a couple UK ships. It'd be good to know if I can use similar tactics.

P.S. "slightly better than cosmetic." lol I like how you worded that.

With Pan Asian T2 to 4 basically rock. Better gun and the same range torpedoes as IJN and 5 smoke rather than 3. Torps can't hit DDs but that is actually a much smaller factor than you might imagine.

T5 is an average Brit DD but with 7.3 km torps.
T6 is The Russian gunboat DD but with 8 km torps and solid AA.
T7 is Jervis but with 8 km torps. Basically the best T-7 DD in the game.
T8 is passable.
T9 is epic and probably the best DD in the game.
T10 has been nerfed into the ground but is still quite playable.

And no Brit DDs have hydro and no engine boost, the Pan Asian T-7 is an N Class DD with slightly better AA and engine boost rather than hydro. It also has lower detection than the Jervis - go figure.

I am of course biased.

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/958608008997381914/0941C31C1FFFDAB183EB6850CA8BEB22FAE32928/

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/958608008997382277/ADB7A4F7F568DB8AA33BF3E6D9B1BD8AF71CD0B1/

[Maj.Tryhard]

lol You MIGHT... Possibly... Maybe... be biased. It's good of you to admit though.

I'll keep that in mind, maybe I'll give Pan Asian a shot for the next nation I try. I've been leaning toward Russia, but that's prolly still a while out, so I'll give it some extra though.

[Rabidnid]

Russia is fun up to T4, after that it is less fun than other lines. The guns are addictive though. driving around shelling BBs from 12 km away.

[linusboy2118]

go with gunboat IJN Dds. At T8+ they are the most OP tech tree ships in the game with crazy guns and good torps plus torp reload booster and dont forget to use IFHE. They are terrors in game

[[:V] Dani :3]

Originally posted by Sidian:

Originally posted by Purrfürst:

Not really filler though, even Minekaze is a better gunboat than Mutsuki with 4 guns vs 2.

Well, they are almost equal when fully upgraded (Minekaze has double the guns but also almost double the reload, while damage per shell and fire chance are the same), and both still have the worst fire power of all DDs at their tier (not counting their premium versions of course).

The same is true for the other IJN destroyers and only excludes the Akizuki, Kitakaze and Harugumo, that's why the other ships of that line (Minekaze, Hatsuharu and Shiratsuyu) can't be called "gunboats", and that's why i called them "filler". They are just different torpedo boats in the gunboat line.

The main line consists of the Special Type DDs, Type A DDs and the only Type C DD ever built, Shimakaze. These design groupings were designed to be the backbone of the IJN Destroyer fleet, to use their very heavy torpedo armament to thin the numbers of US capital ships to even the odds prior to an anticipated climactic capital ship battle, as the IJN was only 60% of the size of the USN. Hence, they are the "torpedo line"

The alternate line consists of the smaller post 1934 London Naval Treaty support destroyers, as well as the Type B AA support DDs. They were all designed as more general purpose destroyers and hence are known as the "gun line". Minekaze goes here because it had the lighter torpedo armament compared to Mutsuki and because ships of the class were converted into escort DDs during WWII.