Difference between Tiers is HUGE

[anarnam]

I was wondering - is that completely intended to create such difference between tiers of ships?

I don't need to read about them to see insane difference between even a single tier of ships (not mentioning two).

Fighting with my Tier 4 battleship I'm easily able to dominate every other ship that's tier 3 (I even get 2-3 citadel hits per game, or when I'm lucky I get even 4), but when I get enemy tier 5 it's like I'm hitting a diamond armor - completely impenetrable defence for my tier 4 battleship (and yeah I'm trying to have only confirmed hits by avoiding auto-bounce as much as possible, so that's out of question). Worth adding that they are scoring citadel hits on me even when I'm turned as much as possible just to keep hitting him with at least a single battery (more than 60 degree, which gives me 100% auto-bounce)

Second thing I noticed is when Tier 5 destroyer gets me with few torpedoes I'm out... yesterday tier 3 destroyer hit me with EVERY SINGLE torpedo... and I still had 10k hitpoints left (plus fire from somewhere which took me down to 7k).

Yet another thing I noticed is that Tier 4 battleship that has A-B-C subtiers makes insane difference between one another. Someone (probably moderator) mentioned to me that its best to farm exp against bots after purchasing new tiers - now I get the point. When I purchased my fresh tier 4 I was a poor lamb, but now I'm a killing machine, and I'm still in tier 4.

So, taking it all into consideration, if I'm tier 4 and get to see fully upgraded tier 6, I might just as well try to ram the guy (in 1v1 situation) or run like a coward, or wait for at least 2 other allies to help me take him down (although I haven't encountered 2 tier difference yet, but as far as I read this forum, I saw people complaining about it).

I love the progression system here - it's very rewarding and satisfying but... is it kinda balance issue that the difference between tiers is so huge, or was it completely intended?

PS. bonus question - is it possible to hit citadel that is situated completely under water when I'm 3km+ away from my target?

[Caimen]

While there is often a large difference in power between ship tiers, this does not make a tier 5 or tier 6 ship impenetrable to a tier 4 ship. Chances are you bounced your shells and they did no damage rather than shattering on the armor.

These changes are intended, as these differences are significant not only in game, but in real life as well. If the tier 4 Wyoming were to actually fight the tier 6 New Mexico, it would be very one sided due to the improved armor and guns on the New Mexico.

But the tier 4 matchmaking only lets you see tier 5 ships unless you divisionn with a tier 5 ship. Tier 5 will see tier 7 though, which is why people rarely play tier 5 ships now.

[anarnam]

Yeah, I realize the IRL difference tiny bit (not much, but understanding physics of the universe, and technology progression during II WW gives me pretty much complete idea).

So how am I supposed to level up from 5 to 7? against bots? :P. Honestly, I'm kinda scared to buy my tier 5, since I do know that I'm crossing the noob->normal player line which I'm currently on.

Btw. I'm always trying to hit ships when they are broadside, so the only way my ammo bounces is when I shoot from insane distances and my ammo bounces diagonally, not horizontally. I can see usually chip damage when shooting higher tier ships.

Btw 2, why there are no submarine ships in the game? Those ships would actually be one of the most interesting to play. Silent Hunter genre was an insanely cool game of this type. I'd like to see that in WoWs

[Shiktlah]

Matchmaking in really unbalanced. The fight is too unbalanced. They should only use ships of the same tier or at most one lower or upper tier. A gap of two tier is too much.

[anarnam]

Originally posted by Shiktlah:

Matchmaking in really unbalanced. The fight is too unbalanced. They should only use ships of the same tier or at most one lower or upper tier. A gap of two tier is too much.

Well, right now as tier 4 I still get to see sometimes 50% of bots in the match or more (especially in the morning) - I can't imagine waiting 10 minutes to start a game just to get people with both same skill and tier level.

[Ryuu]

Originally posted by anarnam:

Originally posted by Shiktlah:

Matchmaking in really unbalanced. The fight is too unbalanced. They should only use ships of the same tier or at most one lower or upper tier. A gap of two tier is too much.

Well, right now as tier 4 I still get to see sometimes 50% of bots in the match or more (especially in the morning) - I can't imagine waiting 10 minutes to start a game just to get people with both same skill and tier level.

You're probably still under newbie matchmaker, that's why you see bots. Normally you wouldn't see them at all in random battles even in the morning, instead teams would be less than 12 vs 12.

But still the point about matchmaking is fair: there are less players with tier 5 and above ships so if matchmaker for high tiers was restricted to only placing ships of same tier or 1 tier difference - we'd probably spend more time waiting in queues than we'd like. Currently it's fine in prime-time: you get battles when you're low tier and when you're high tier in the match as well. You just need to adjust your gameplay - play support instead of vanguard, aid your most powerful ships while staying outside of enemy focus fire, and wait for either enemy's or your high-tiers to wither.

[Shiktlah]

Originally posted by anarnam:

Originally posted by Shiktlah:

Matchmaking in really unbalanced. The fight is too unbalanced. They should only use ships of the same tier or at most one lower or upper tier. A gap of two tier is too much.

Well, right now as tier 4 I still get to see sometimes 50% of bots in the match or more (especially in the morning) - I can't imagine waiting 10 minutes to start a game just to get people with both same skill and tier level.

In random battles I saw bots only at tier III .. from tier IV always human players. It's not necessary have MM ONLY with players at the same tier.. but a gap of two tiers,IMHO, is too much.

[Shiktlah]

Originally posted by Ryuu:

Originally posted by anarnam:

Well, right now as tier 4 I still get to see sometimes 50% of bots in the match or more (especially in the morning) - I can't imagine waiting 10 minutes to start a game just to get people with both same skill and tier level.

You're probably still under newbie matchmaker, that's why you see bots. Normally you wouldn't see them at all in random battles even in the morning, instead teams would be less than 12 vs 12.

But still the point about matchmaking is fair: there are less players with tier 5 and above ships so if matchmaker for high tiers was restricted to only placing ships of same tier or 1 tier difference - we'd probably spend more time waiting in queues than we'd like. Currently it's fine in prime-time: you get battles when you're low tier and when you're high tier in the match as well. You just need to adjust your gameplay - play support instead of vanguard, aid your most powerful ships while staying outside of enemy focus fire, and wait for either enemy's or your high-tiers to wither.

This is true. I need surely much more experience, and need also to improve my gameplay but sometimes is really frustrating to be hit or sunk from enemies you can't even see... and
when you realize where they are , if still alive, half of your hp are gone. Even you play only as support ship this happens quite often.

[Flo]

Originally posted by anarnam:

...

Btw 2, why there are no submarine ships in the game? Those ships would actually be one of the most interesting to play. Silent Hunter genre was an insanely cool game of this type. I'd like to see that in WoWs

Because 1)Speed: As an example the Uboat Type VII had a surfacespeed of 17,5 knots and an underwater speed of 8 knots. And that is considered a fast one for early WWII.
2) Countermeasure: WG had to implement a new Weaponsystem for Destroyers/Cruisers. So if you are the last on your teamalive in a sub and the enemy has only BBs left you wont be killable.
3) Probably a lot of different reasons like divemechanic, electrical charge of you batteries etc...

[anarnam]

Originally posted by Ascardon:

Because 1)Speed: As an example the Uboat Type VII had a surfacespeed of 17,5 knots and an underwater speed of 8 knots. And that is considered a fast one for early WWII.
2) Countermeasure: WG had to implement a new Weaponsystem for Destroyers/Cruisers. So if you are the last on your teamalive in a sub and the enemy has only BBs left you wont be killable.
3) Probably a lot of different reasons like divemechanic, electrical charge of you batteries etc...

You gotta point, but for similar reasons (such as weaponry, speed, gameplay) many people think that aircraft carriers are horrible in this game, because they pretty much change the gameplay and many people don't like it.
I

[xXBulletJusticeXx]

Originally posted by anarnam:

So how am I supposed to level up from 5 to 7? against bots? :P. Honestly, I'm kinda scared to buy my tier 5, since I do know that I'm crossing the noob->normal player line which I'm currently on.

It is actually easier to tier up if you constantly fight players higher tier than you. Reason being you get more XP for damaging higher tier ships than same or lower tier ships.

The tiers of both the attacking and defending ships are taken into account and can impact the rewards. Destroying a ship of a lower tier than yours will reward you less than destroying a ship of the same tier, which won’t be as rewarding as destroying a ship of a higher tier!

https://worldofwarships.com/en/content/guides/xp-and-credits/

Also, fighting a higher tier opponent can help you learn to play better and understand mechanics more than fighting same or lower tier all the time.

If you are strugling to play against higher tier opponents, then try to avoid engaging until your team member who is same tier as opponent is already engaged with them. You will have a much better time.

Even if you are a Battleship. Play as support, at long range, and lob HE at the enemy high tier BBs. Also, look for those cruisers, even if they out tier you by 2 tiers, your guns WILL citadel them when they show broadside.

[Wendersnaven]

OP and Shiktlah, I have the same feelings and observations and feel the game would be much better keeping the tier difference to a factor of one. I enjoy this game and want it to be better, but it is frustrating and alienating players due to the tier disparity. I wish they would change it, but every plea I make is met with the same answer of "get gud." That's how it is I guess.

No offense to Ryu as he's a good player and moderator- but hanging back and being cautious is not an option when you're a DD. You have to be out on the front lines scouting and giving your allies targets- not whiteknighting torpedos like you can in early levels of course. Even when you do everything right, -in- comes the radar location and you are 'instant dead' as a fleet of ships two tiers above you start firing before you even get a chance to move. I've started backing my Harekaze into spy positions when there are tier X's on the board now.

I also keep bringing up that not only are the stat differences between tiers a major divide in effectiveness, the higher tier ships also have more abilities and equipment slots to specialize with. It's not a good thing when players see the loading screen and feel relieved that they aren't the lowest tier. Great game, but it could be better and have many more players.

[Batonya]

Sincerely I do not understand the problem.
Playing at tier 7, both on battleships and on cruisers.Having no problems. As tier 4-5 cruiser u can handle tier 6-7 enemy. If you're maneuvering of course. Wich is more, with some luck ANY cruiser can solo-handle ANY battleship, thx to fires. So, I guess it's all just about personal skill. Try not to rush open-water, play careful and smart, and you'll see, that tier difference isn't that bad. Unless you're Japanese cruiser. Tier 4-6 ♥♥♥♥ cruisers are trash :(

[Valfalk]

Originally posted by UGANDA QUEEN:

Sincerely I do not understand the problem.
Playing at tier 7, both on battleships and on cruisers.Having no problems. As tier 4-5 cruiser u can handle tier 6-7 enemy. If you're maneuvering of course. Wich is more, with some luck ANY cruiser can solo-handle ANY battleship, thx to fires. So, I guess it's all just about personal skill. Try not to rush open-water, play careful and smart, and you'll see, that tier difference isn't that bad. Unless you're Japanese cruiser. Tier 4-6 ♥♥♥♥ cruisers are trash :(

HOW DARE YOU CALL THE FURRY TACO TRASH
YOU HAVE SOILED HER NAME GOOD SIR

[Parthin]

They have arranged the tiers as best they can with real ships that had different capabilities. You are still in the newbie protected pool of players and tier 4 usually only sees tier 5. Tier 5 will see up to tier 7 ships, but I have played a tier 5 in a tier 7 match, and finished first. The ships are mostly matched in the team lineup against the same tier, so the 2 teams even out. The low tiers are WW1 and interwar ships, they were'nt certain at that point in time what the final forms of the gunship should be.

[Kevlar]

Originally posted by anarnam:

Btw 2, why there are no submarine ships in the game? Those ships would actually be one of the most interesting to play. Silent Hunter genre was an insanely cool game of this type. I'd like to see that in WoWs

there are a couple of reasons why... just thinking on it a few seconds I concluded that.

1-Wows is a action packed vision of naval warfare. due to the relative small scale of the maps and the fact that fuel is not a concern, everyone is free to sail at max speeds or close, and therefore a submerged 7 to 10 knots moving submarine would have a hugely passive gameplay style, dictated more by the movement of others than by the player itself. and often restricted to targets of oportunity

this also means that the sub player would have extreme problems to support his team efforts specially if those involved fast switching between points, unless surfaced and a surfaced sub moving at best at 17-20 knots would be a very vulnerable target, since sub autonomy while fast moving was of around 15 to 20 km at best.

2-other factors involve that almost rule out subs are
A) certain existing mechanics that would be either redudant. (exemple, sub was put on fire at surface , dive and you are good to go), or would become deadly like flooding.
B) engine limitations. as most likely the bottom of the sea is not rendered or in any way realistic and certain factors such water pressure and crush depth are maybe outside the ability of the game engine to handle.
C) introduction of new weapon types (mines depth charges etc)

if i think about for a few more minutes I am sure i could come with even more arguments.