ATOM RPG

ATOM RPG

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dolmaKALEM 17. juni 2020 kl. 14.06
Some serious racist issues in the game [To developers]
Hello,

I've played the game for a while, it was fun until I saw a "Serbia Stronk" text on a wall in the world. I'm not a SJW or anything like that but when Slavic developers reference a slavic song that promotes genocide, I felt like that was maybe too much. This meme was even used by the New Zeland terrorist so again, not very cool.

Any explanations by the developer or plans to change anything?
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Gregorovitch 2. aug. 2020 kl. 5.58 
Opprinnelig skrevet av dolmaKALEM:
After saying ""Serbia Strong" is the name of the song" for days, when I prove it is not, guy is gone, pretty sad.

The song is definitely called Serbia Strong. It is currently available on Amazon Music as part of a compilation of Serbian patriotic songs:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R7XZH3X/ref=dm_ws_sp_ps_dp

Interestingly the collection has an instrumental version called "Remove Kebab" included on the album (more on that in a minute). The song itself is also listed individually:

https://www.amazon.com/Serbia-strong/dp/B07R6V77Z4

And here is some more detailed info about the history of it (including it's recent adoption by white supremacist/racist groups):

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/serbia-strong-remove-kebab

It also has a link to the original footage included. The two released tracks are both on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=uSCJxxI83v4&feature=emb_logo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tUUe7Y29To
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kWFZskyYDU

There is a variance between the singer of the original propaganda video, listed as Zeljko Grmusa, and the singer credited with the released track, Serbia Strong, Razni izvodjaci. I can't find any further source that explains this discrepancy but an explanation can be surmised.

The sound track of the original video of the soldiers performing in the field is clearly not of those soldiers performing since if it was it could only have been done with them all close miced through a mixing desk which is clearly not in evidence in the footage, plus there is no drummer and bass player involved. The soldiers were playing the song for real however, you can see both the keyboardist and accordion player are playing exactly the correct notes at various points in the video.

So the a likely conclusion is that the sound track to the video was dubbed in from a separate studio recording and whereas Zeljko Grmusa was the singer in the field Razni izvodjaci sang it in the studio. There is a noticeable glitch in the track, a jump, around 0m50s on both the original video and the released track indicating a tape splice. This proves beyond question that the released music track, Serbia Strong, is one and the same music as was used in the propaganda video and recorded at the same time in 1992 (or 1993 according to some sources).

Therefore the most likely explanation for the confusion over the title of this song is that it was originally written as a war propaganda video for broadcast on Serbian TV etc and given a title of "Karadic, lead your Serbs" for that purpose and then released as a record for sale and to play on radio stations under the title Serbia Strong.

Whatever, the evidence clearly points to the song itself, outside the context of the war propaganda video, being called, originally back in 1992/3, Serbia Strong. This is not 100% certain but what is 100% certain is that you personally don't know for a fact that it wasn't and you have no basis for claiming so.

In short, you have no basis at all for claiming that the use of Serbia Strong graffiti in the game is a reference to modern day white supremacist/racists/neo-nazis.

Now I think we need to look at this Remove Kebab thing 'cos the way it's used today by far right/white supremacist people is undeniably racist and blatantly anti-muslim in nature, you are certainly not wrong about that. However in Serbia (and therefore/also in Russia) it has very different connotations.

Serbia has fought imperialist aggression from the Ottoman Empire tooth and nail for centuries right up to the demise of the old Ottoman Empire at the end of WW1 in 1918. They fought bravely and ceaselessly against seemingly hopeless odds over this time, sometimes succeeding, sometimes not so much. Western Europe has much to thank the Serbs for in many respects although they rarely if ever got such thanks. In fact Serbia has been many times attacked by Catholic and Protestant aggressors from Western Europe over the same period of centuries as well.

Remove Kebab is therefore almost certainly a long standing Serbian meme going back way before WW1 relating to ejecting occupying Turks. It is not a white supremacist/imperealist slogan but rather a one of national liberation from Turkish aggression and at times occupation. The Serbs are not the oppressors but rather the oppressed here, in fact they rank pretty highly in the global league table of oppressed and discriminated against peoples.

And of course Russia had more than it's fair share of issues with the Ottoman Empire for centuries until the end of WW1 too. So on top of the deep ethnic, cultural, political and religious ties between Russia and Serbia we can add a persistent common enemy and a deep respect for the bravery and prowess of a tiny Serbia fighting the overwhelming might of the Ottoman Empire over a long period of time and punching way above their weight.

THIS is what the Serbia Strong meme would have meant to some people in Russia in the game's time period, hence the graffiti, it has nothing whatever to do with today's white supremacists and racists who have latterly cottoned on to Remove Kebab and used to for entirely different reasons.

Now I think we need to turn to your allegation of racism against the devs of this game per se.

This Serbia Strong graffiti is just one amongst hundreds of similar references liberally scattered across the whole game. Many of them relate to pop culture, music, games and so on. Many more relate to political and social commentary/caricature on the Soviet communist regime, the good and the bad of it, and post-Soviet Russian society and politics.

These references and caricatures are diverse and multi-layered. We have bunkers full of the remains of secret Soviet research projects into despicable bio-weapons and such, we have jumped up gangsters pretending to be oligarchs terrorising the wasteland right and left, and we have salt of the earth old communists like dear old Comrade Kovalev, and his likeable and promising daughter Katya, ordinary Russians keeping life together as best they can and representing the true heart and soul of the Russian people.

Indeed the murder of Kovalev is probably the most poignant and emotional high point in the game, I don't think anybody experiencing it could feel anything but shock and outrage over his murder, and this is obviously very deliberate, a big statement of where the devs stand on all of this. It is definitely not the statement of raving racist or neo-nazi. Rather it highlights the consequences for ordinary folk when people with such mind sets take control. This is a complex and multi-faceted narrative, there is no ideological tub-thumping going on here.

Then we have the question of Fidel who is your #1 companion. From his portrait Fidel doesn't look white, he looks mixed race. His pub is called El Pollo Loco (the Crazy Chicken). He calls you Amigo/Amiga. This is Spanish. Is he Spanish then? Central American? How come he's in Russia?

I just checked Fidel's dialog and looked around the interwebs and I can't find any details about Fidel's background but I would say his origin is fairly obvious - he's almost certainly Cuban which would make a lot of sense given the close ties and routine exchanges between the USSR and Cuba following the Cuban revolution in 1959.

So we have a mixed race Cuban serving as your #1 companion who also happens to be one of the few sensible and balanced NPC's in the game - and you are trying to accuse the devs of racism?

Get out of here. Your accusation has no basis at all IMO.





Sist redigert av Gregorovitch; 2. aug. 2020 kl. 6.15
Gregorovitch 2. aug. 2020 kl. 11.24 
Opprinnelig skrevet av 7821874:
Islam is not a race. Saying that being repelled by islam is racist is plainly stupid, as there are Muslims of all races. Being repelled by islam or immigrants and joking about it is perfectly reasonable, no matter how much of a thought time one might want to paint that as. Fidel is from central Asia, he himself states he has nothing to do with Cuba. He even wears a tubeteika.

islamophobia is considered racist because the overwhelming majority of muslims are non-white so many racists try to use disrespect of Islam as cover for their racism. Crude form of dog whistle racism if you like.

I originally assumed that Fidel was probably from central Asia too. But I could not recall any dialog with him to confirm that. I decided to check, both in-game and online. I can't find any dialog options for Fidel to discuss his background in-game. There is also no post or video about Fidel I can find on the interwebs that says anything about his background.

What I do know is that Spanish appears to be his first language. That seems to rule out central Asia. It points to Cuba as the most likely background.

But I could be wrong, If you know of any links that I've missed about this please post.
Gregorovitch 2. aug. 2020 kl. 14.37 
Opprinnelig skrevet av 7821874:
He specifically says something about having nothing to do with Cuba but hoping one day to visit. Cuba is a marxist country like the USSR was, and the two were closely allied. Fidel has a passion for Cuba, hence himself opening a weird Cuban bar on the other side of the world, getting that nickname and mixing some Spanish words in his speech. This is what I understood.

I'm not really interested in talking about politics in general on a game board, man, just in relation to the game itself if relevant, as in OP's accusation of racism against the devs etc.

Yeah, I have not seen any dialog with Fidel about Cuba, or anything to do with his background. When does this happen, how do you get to it?
vine 2. aug. 2020 kl. 16.55 
Since you wanna get political
Did you personally apologize for Armenian Genocide yet?
Gregorovitch 3. aug. 2020 kl. 3.38 
Opprinnelig skrevet av 7821874:
I think you had to pass a speech skill check to find out about Fidel's background.

Yep, I finally found it searching though an LP. Turns out you get this option by asking Fidel about his name when you first meet him. I didn't get to see this branch, though, because I chose the [give password] option immediately (as this is what my PC would do in this situation) which cuts off the dialog for resumption behind the back curtain. It looks like you can't then access this dialog again. Which is a pity considering the imaginativeness of this backstory.

But yeah, it explains the Spanish/Cuban thing and confirms his Central Asian background. Doesn't alter the fact that he's a non-white character though, that was the main point. But thanks for the heads up.
Priest of Syrinx 3. aug. 2020 kl. 15.10 
Opprinnelig skrevet av 7821874:
Opprinnelig skrevet av dolmaKALEM:
:beetroot:
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Svakoj majci treba da je dika, koja ima sina k'o Slotera Nika
Captain Schettino 7. aug. 2020 kl. 11.07 
Opprinnelig skrevet av bunny de fluff:
OP, please go sell your political correctness somewhere else, please I beg you, you and others like you should shove it. The gaming world does NOT need you guys, you got me? Some people in some video games will always, ALWAYS like racism and genocide and such, and the player does not have to agree with them at all, you get this so far?

I love you. Can I marry you?
sneed
Ard Feainn 9. aug. 2020 kl. 6.15 
Is this thread satire? OP, are you mentally ill?
Drakensang 9. aug. 2020 kl. 6.26 
Imagine being retarded enough to think that the game developers would bother answering to the thread of a schizo nutjob.
Shortylax 9. aug. 2020 kl. 8.41 
i am so proud on all of you.
Barbarian 30. aug. 2020 kl. 11.44 
Opprinnelig skrevet av bunny de fluff:
OP, please go sell your political correctness somewhere else, please I beg you, you and others like you should shove it. The gaming world does NOT need you guys, you got me? Some people in some video games will always, ALWAYS like racism and genocide and such, and the player does not have to agree with them at all, you get this so far?

The gaming world surely dont need someone like you. He is a paying customer and entitled to give feedback.
JasseBasse 31. aug. 2020 kl. 0.15 
It seems as though the "Serbia Stronk" has been removed from the game. I could not find it. If that is the case, I am deeply saddened that devs gave in so easly to sjw snowflake n@zis. Sad truely. If, if that is the case...
gcktroll 2. sep. 2020 kl. 14.45 
God save us from the social justice warriors. Everything is offensive to somebody, so perhaps all games, artwork, music and spoken words should be prohibited. No facial expressions allowed either.
Jono 2. sep. 2020 kl. 23.21 
Hilarious that after nine pages of triggered reactionaries screaming at OP, it appears that the devs just removed "Serbia Stronk" from the game anyway. That must really bug the ♥♥♥♥ out of you all.
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