impossible fights --- intentional?

[Porkie]

Is it intentional that the woodpecker fight is impossible? thanks

[atomRPGmod]

Not really, no. It's winnable. Do you have trouble with it or something is bugged?

[Porkie]

I'm surrounded by about 12 guys all in 100% hit weapon range with combat armors AKs hunting rifles and grenades who kill my whole party (got all companions) before even one third of them are done shooting, so yeah, it's not winnable.

It was the same with all the bunker fights too, so I just skipped those even though I wanted to have em. Just massively overpowering.

My guys have combat or stalker armor (dog armor too) and ok weapons (HK33, Stenchkin pistol etc) but there's no way

[atomRPGmod]

Well, as a dev I'm not supposed to give advice, since then all who read it will think it's canon, but I watched several letsplays of that fight the other day and what people tend to do is wipe some enemies out with a dialogue check or get the innitiative with a very low dex check and then grenade everyone. Even if dam of grenade is low, it can throw guys on the ground. Running into one group also works, as does getting into cover. One time I buffed everyone to high heaven with perishables (did you know positive effects stack?) and just killed everything. These are just the ways me and the letsplayers deal with them. Maybe other forum posters will share their strategies.

[Poppi !!]

I've literally just started this so I'll follow along for any tips on tactics for the future 👍

[Porkie]

I agree it's possible if you know of the fight ahead of time (which is a silly way to approach an RPG) and use every consumable etc.

Also I didn't invest in thrown weapon skill. So that one is the win button? Meh.

I think it'll still be impossible for my group in any case. It's stupid when you have the best armor and the best weapons more or less and the fights are still impossible without every kind of cheese, and even then barely.

[atomRPGmod]

Originally posted by Huggles `:

I agree it's possible if you know of the fight ahead of time (which is a silly way to approach an RPG) and use every consumable etc.

Also I didn't invest in thrown weapon skill. So that one is the win button? Meh.

I think it'll still be impossible for my group in any case. It's stupid when you have the best armor and the best weapons more or less and the fights are still impossible without every kind of cheese, and even then barely.

Sorry, I get that you are annoyed by the situation, but please, do not twist my words :) I clearly said that these are only SOME of the ways to win that came to my mind right now. There is no win button. Here, you can see our friend Sonoket Gaming stumble upon this fight with no prior knowledge getting really intimidated and then still winning with combat armor and not really special weapons.
16:05 is the start of the battle. This guy uses no grenades, didn't make the fight easy by dialogue checks, almost dies, gets stun-locked for a few turns, swears a lot, but look at how empowered and happy he is when the tables turn! :) I follow his videos when I have free time, and he isn't minmaxing or something. Just an average character with pros and cons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acxu57gqjhg&list=PLAtiOxHKVLhY57L0scTMHu6pOwzEBZRLI&index=4

This is hard, yet doable.

[Neyreyan_Youtube]

Well, some of us are masochists:) i even managed to do all the hard battles in the game with a missing companion(aka Alexander aka the brain dead worm eaten cronic liar)

It's all about the build of your character and how many endgame items do you have, at level 16-18 all of them should be unlocked+bonus stats+ AP ammo+ 2companions with max gun skills should be plenty

[atomRPGmod]

Originally posted by Neyreyan_Youtube:

Well, some of us are masochists:) i even managed to do all the hard battles in the game with a missing companion(aka Alexander aka the brain dead worm eaten cronic liar)

It's all about the build of your character and how many endgame items do you have, at level 16-18 all of them should be unlocked+bonus stats+ AP ammo+ 2companions with max gun skills should be plenty

You sure did! I watched you go through plenty of fights that were almost too hard for your character. If you wish, you have full permission to share your vids on our forum whenever you see fit.

[Porkie]

I call ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on that.
Having the best hidden weapons and scoring insta-kill critical hits on every shot while never getting insta-kill critted yourself isn't a rational standard or anything statistically repeatable.

I tried the fight 4 times and every time at least one of the enemies critted for 30-50 dmg killing someone

[GorilaSK]

I have a problem with woodpecker fight too. I play as a lone wolf and even there could be a possibility to win a fight, Dzulbars die every time! I can not let him wait in other place, he always joint the battle, but he is so weak that he usually die in the 2nd round of fight. Any advice with dog? Thanks...

[sorenthewild]

An easy way is to buff your strength(if it isn't high already) and pass the strength check, that way there'll be like 5 guys max(3 standing very close together).

[Porkie]

Yeah except you need 10 str for that.

It's a broken encounter as far as I'm concerned.

[flushfire]

Have to agree it is not the best designed encounter even though I've beaten it different ways. Some of the solutions do require prior knowledge, the strength check for example is impossible to most without buffs, and you have to do it before entering the map.

The good thing though, is that there isn't just one way of dealing with it. Grenades are very handy in the hardest fights, I don't see why you wouldn't invest at least up to the minimum requirement. Most characters start with 28-30 points in Throwing. Two levels worth and you're set. There's also a Luck check iirc? Although Luck is pretty garbage so that's not really a positive lol

Personally I'd add Attention checks to the encounter, a lower one to allow the player to prebuff before the dialogue and a higher one (or make it a Stealth check) to give better positioning.

[Dorok]

As soon as a RPG allows buffers and even quite different party setup, a pre knowledge aspect isn't a bad thing.

What's bad would be to do the same n buff and party setup for all combats. Have pre knowledge be helpful means something positive, you need adapt buffs and party setup to each combat.

In my opinion Atom RPG is a bit about that, it's no scamloading, it's a part of the depth.

I would say that a Tactical RPG like Fell Seal: Arbiter's Mark pushed it to the extreme, at start of combats you see the full terrain, all enemies, can check all their details, and then you choose the party you want, can change their classes and abilities equipped, change all their equipement.

In Atom RpG at beginning of combat you can open inventory and change all equipments and use many drugs, but it's still rather limited, you lost some precious AP at first round, many food and drugs can't be used during combat. And obviously it's even worse for a dialog check.

[Zennim]

i loved that you begin the game getting humbled by getting mugged, and if you go to bunker 317 it happens again, it is realistic, you are alone, you have no gear, you got into a bad streak of luck

the first one it is a bunch of guys with melee weapons, so even if you do lose it is reasonable why you live

the second one you have 3 guns pointed at you, one being a shotgun right at your face, and you have at most some rusted weapons with little ammo, it is great, you have to give it up, start again, you got what you wanted from the bunker, and that was info

now, the encounter on the playground has 6 problems

1st, it is unreasonable to expect players will walk with enough items and/or have the right build to pass a check, specially when the game taught you a lesson of walking light, survive with scraps, have hidden caches with essentials

2nd, the difference between checks is abysmal, passing a dex check is just not equivalent to the strength one, you have godlike reflexes, but that means nothing for intimidation? it is a setting where you have guns, strength is meaningless when you have two ak-47s pointed at you, 3 shotguns at your right, 3 rifles at your left and a guy with a grenade behind you.

3rd, you don't have neither control of terrain nor can you use tactics, you are just plain ambushed from all sides in an open field, you can't use cover, and you can't control your companions, you get Moved into the middle of the playground, even if you decide you want to observe first, the game forcefully moves your party from the edge into the middle of the ambush

4th, you either have a dragon, or you have 100 kobolds, it is reasonable to fighter either, it is not reasonable to fight 100 dragons. The mercenaries in this encounter are the most heavily armoured and armed in the region; they have explosives, automatic weapons in great condition, they have high accuracy, their brawlers hit hard. Fighting 4 of them is already a high risk of losing a companion, they are in twelve and surrounding you. If your encounter have so many participants, you have to downgrade them more, if you want them to be well equipped, you need to have fewer, or have something else helping the player

5th, it comes out of nowhere, you were investigating one serial killer, even if you suspect he had help, it is wild to imagine that there is a whole squad of mercenaries on their way to meet him, it is out of left field and there is no way to prevent it from happening and there is no way for you to get reinforcements

6th and the reason why this encounter doesn't work while the other two do: you are expected to fight it. Atom is supposed to be an organization of secret good samaritans, you are supposed to be a helping hand in rebuilding civilization, that does not match the kind of person that would point the finger at the detective and hope the heavily armed organ harvesters, that don't need you, won't harvest your organs too for good measure, and hey, even if you try being a coward they won't believe you and kill you anyway.

it is not a case of "your money or your life", it is just "it is your life", you don't have anything to borrow time, you don't have anything to give up, you are just going to die because you were (doing a side quest in an rpg) investigating a serial killer.

the mercenaries comes from nowhere, so you can't talk with the stalkers to back you up, you can't be better equipped because there is no better gear around in the area, you can't plan how you are going to approach it with tactics, you either have the right build to make things easier, or your companions and the detective are dead, and the detective will probably die either way since you can't heal him

you are the underdog in all aspects and they just want you dead, it is the kind of set up i would expect from a climatic end game encounter, not a side quest that you can tackle at level 10

it is a really low point in the game, the game gives you two places to go, and you will be fine 99% of the time, but because of a single side quest you are expected to actually have end game gear and be over lvl 17 when going to one of them, the one you can quickly go to in the same city you get the quest to explore two places, when the other place you may not even have explored yet, and because you did the mushroom cult quest instead of paying for the hint (and you may end yo putting from 3500 to 7000 in the mushroom quest already, so sinking cost trap), you already have the money to pay for the trip but somehow you should have known that the intended way was on the other side of the region where you may not have gone yet

i am going to beat this encounter, eventually, because the game is really good and i am having a great time with it, but this encounter? really poorly made and placed