Dead City almost ruined this game for me

[MC858]

I loved this game - then i went to Dead City.

Dead City emphasizes the worst parts of this game.
1. Garbage encounters in the same setting over and over. (at a nearly constant pace)
2. SLOW map travel. Walking around that stupid metro like a snail (stupid detours dont help) - almost made me quit the game

If you guys ever make a sequel try to avoid the Dead City formula at ALL COST. Its annoying, not fun, and turns the game into a chore you just want to be done with.

[.//slayer]

The atmosphere of it was top notch - like playing Metro 2033: The RPG. Encounters and ♥♥♥♥ travel speed are just obvious problems for the entirety of the game, not of Dead City in particular.

[flushfire]

The metro travel was just really badly done. It's actually faster to travel above than below. They should've reduced the encounter rate or removed the blockages because they just make the problem worse. The encounter maps were also big for no reason, and some encounters cannot be skipped. Also, too many rats.

[Dorok]

I didn't suffered the problem (yet), but definitely noticed the points quoted by OP.

But before going into negativity, some positive about Dead City:
- Dead City has been hugely improved and is now much better, great work.
- I also think that dialog writing improved somehow by using a much lower density of common talk that are more disconnected background information on some common NPC.
- In average more parts grabbed my curiosity or get me intrigued. In my opinion the most important writing goal is find ways to make any bit of dialog interesting, clues that can be useful, very original stories/characters, a bit of humor can't hurt (well it is perhaps already here, but often too much referential in my opinion, it's not working for many players, such thing is fine but a bit more understandable humor would help), mysteries or in general makes it intriguing, rumors already used a lot by the game is a great trick, emotions but ok it's difficult to manage in an rpg context, anything really grabbing player attention. Lore is a big trap in dialog writing, this game does ok around that but could be better. I would quote The Witcher encycledia as an example (the 1 not 2&3).

In my opinion what could be tried for points of OP:
- Firstly increase walking speed in tunnels, it could be the same coding than outdoor, it's not the same scale and walking should be quite faster even if not as fast than a car. This will already tuned down the number of random encounters that are game time based not distance based.
- More exit between tunnels and outdoor.
- Give back more chance to avoid encounters, there's no point that speechcraft is less efficient when you can use it.
- I'm not sure any player use survival to flee encounters, but again there's no point to penalize it that much, random encounters area doesn't justify it against animals that aren't smart and it's not a straight tunnel blocked by a pack of animals.
- If increasing walking speed doesn't minimize enough random encounters, then perhaps lower a bit their scaling rate.
- More diversity in random encounters, areas separated to mainland always suffered the problem, diversity is more important than mood in my opinion. With a true diversity other problems would vanished, this plus faster walking speed would fix it in my opinion.
- In some parts of tunnels exchange random encounters in series of encounters that are events that setup a little story, for example an escalation in number of animals.
- Give player opportunity to active really dangerous random encounters as slavers on main land.

[atomRPGmod]

Originally posted by Dorok:

I didn't suffered the problem (yet), but definitely noticed the points quoted by OP.

But before going into negativity, some positive about Dead City:
- Dead City has been hugely improved and is now much better, great work.
- I also think that dialog writing improved somehow by using a much lower density of common talk that are more disconnected background information on some common NPC.
- In average more parts grabbed my curiosity or get me intrigued. In my opinion the most important writing goal is find ways to make any bit of dialog interesting, clues that can be useful, very original stories/characters, a bit of humor can't hurt (well it is perhaps already here, but often too much referential in my opinion, it's not working for many players, such thing is fine but a bit more understandable humor would help), mysteries or in general makes it intriguing, rumors already used a lot by the game is a great trick, emotions but ok it's difficult to manage in an rpg context, anything really grabbing player attention. Lore is a big trap in dialog writing, this game does ok around that but could be better. I would quote The Witcher encycledia as an example (the 1 not 2&3).

In my opinion what could be tried for points of OP:
- Firstly increase walking speed in tunnels, it could be the same coding than outdoor, it's not the same scale and walking should be quite faster even if not as fast than a car. This will already tuned down the number of random encounters that are game time based not distance based.
- More exit between tunnels and outdoor.
- Give back more chance to avoid encounters, there's no point that speechcraft is less efficient when you can use it.
- I'm not sure any player use survival to flee encounters, but again there's no point to penalize it that much, random encounters area doesn't justify it against animals that aren't smart and it's not a straight tunnel blocked by a pack of animals.
- If increasing walking speed doesn't minimize enough random encounters, then perhaps lower a bit their scaling rate.
- More diversity in random encounters, areas separated to mainland always suffered the problem, diversity is more important than mood in my opinion. With a true diversity other problems would vanished, this plus faster walking speed would fix it in my opinion.
- In some parts of tunnels exchange random encounters in series of encounters that are events that setup a little story, for example an escalation in number of animals.
- Give player opportunity to active really dangerous random encounters as slavers on main land.

We currently have a few random encounter metro and dead city maps that nobody seems to ever get, so we'll up the chance and patch them in pretty soon.

[Dorok]

I played a bit Death City tunnels but not fully. So myself I cannot judge fully the diversity of random encounters in Dead City since 1.1+.

For Atom RPG 2 or the extension, don't give up on the idea of using three scales, it's a good one, it just need some adjustment and eventually the bug fixes you quote coming will improve the whole.

[Sithicus]

Originally posted by atomRPGmod:

We currently have a few random encounter metro and dead city maps that nobody seems to ever get, so we'll up the chance and patch them in pretty soon.

Do you mean some unique encounters?

We could use some more vs encounters, either in the city or in the tunnels.
Metro: Bandits vs Stalkers, Bandits vs Demons, Bandits vs Rats, Bandits vs Caravan
Topside: Bandits vs Stalkers, Bandits vs Rats, Stalkers vs Rats, Stalkers vs Shadows

We could also use new monsters/mutants especially topside, something big and dangerous, requiring a lot of firepower to put down.

What could be really fun would be missions given by boss in Stalker Base - purging of mutants/rats - similar to headhunting in KRZ.

[grraf]

Originally posted by InEffect:

If you think this is bad - try deep caverns in underrail. Atoms version on that is a walk in the park.

U just had to trigger a PTSD inducing memory just couldn't help yrself... but yeah jokes aside that was a big replay deterrent for quite a few people...

[Sithicus]

Hey, I did enjoy Deep Caverns in Underrail. Went there fully kitted and with S-Class ninja level stealth.

Still waiting for the Expedition DLC, so I can do another playthrough.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by InEffect:

If you think this is bad - try deep caverns in underrail. Atoms version on that is a walk in the park.

The problem of Underrail is elsewhere, the game (good on many aspect) has an awful bad respawn system, certainly the worse I ever played. Atom RPG has a good respawn system based on random encounters on a global map, but not time and resources to ensure a great diversity.

In an area like Dead City that most players will play later the problem is aggravated because level up is slower at higher levels and this removes variations around scaling.

[Sithicus]

Yeah, by the time I decided I was ready for Dead City my character was around level 25 with top tear weapons and gear. I've hoped for more challenging fights.

I wish the Shadows in the Crater could respawn every day or two.

[MC858]

thanks for all the replys and the dev response

i just want to announce i finally beat the game. It was well worth it - but i stand by what i said about dead city (espicially the metro) - that section is why ill never play that section of the game EVER EVER again when i revisit it. I truly cant describe how much i hate the entire metro map and encounters

SPOILERS:

1- No achievement for beating it on expert ? wierd

2- I like the ending so much. A really cool callback to Fallout - and a nice review of all the choices you made and its effects. I seem to have screwed every town over somehow even though i was a good character .... but whatever

3- I really wish the mutants looked more like mutants on the screen and not just human characters

4- Saving the dog is impossible. And for whatever reason i never ran into another dog again. I really wanted a damn dog :/

5- Group AI cost me so many fights. Its passable but could be a lot better TBH

6- I never liked or got used to the vendors/economy.

7- Random encounters are cool but they should have added more wacky ones like Fallout had. (crashed UFO, etc)

8- Dead city metro truly sucks


GG guys. Another game in the backlog conquered. I may be back next year to play it again.

PS - to the guy that brought up Underrail , that game is actually on my to-do list

[Dorok]

Past this thread, dev fixed multiple Metro random encounters problems in Dead City and probably rebalanced it also for the spreading chance of each type.

I don't have yet a good picture of current state but despite they didn't changed Metro walking speed and then the spawn rate is a bit fast, it's a full different picture:
- Rats, often you can exit the encounter and skip it, a bit like Mutants encounters outdoor. Pick attack option to do so. And even when you need fight a few, you are spawned close to an exit, and could skip, not bother really combat and just exit.
- Bandits, it seems there's a good diversity, sometimes you can fight only a part of them and exit if you want. Weapons can vary well, this adds diversity.
- There's a lot more caravan, for each caravan spawn it's one less potential combat.
- When you meet caravans they of offer a very cheap quick travel option for one of the location you already found, this can allow skip many random encounters.
- Stalkers fighting fire "demons", you can skip those encounters if you want.
- Stalkers and Rats, can't be skipped but quite quick combat, and can allow refill food.
- Perhaps more.

A few more possibilities to make it more light:
- Stop bother on items to pick in containers, at least if your character is rather high level. It makes the encounters lighter.
- Don't bother too much on carrying a lot of stuff from drops, accept drop or not take stuff, you won't be able sell a lot even if in Metro there's a significant amount of caravans.

Eventually I got a bit lucky, but I reach for first time the Looter base, and no way random encounters had a problem of repetitive, and the Metro exploration was quite fine, for now.

But a key point is skip as many combats you can if you don't want play them, there's many opportunities to do it in Metro random encounters, by skipping or more often by reaching the exit.