Battle Wizard might be the dumbest class

[Gomer Pyle]

The problem with battle wizard (BW) is that outside of the career skill (ult) this hero is not required to do anything and the hero will still be just fine in terms of overall contribution. If its a game with extra mob modifier, will basically guarantee be on the leaderboard. Im seeing games, public games, official realm games with randoms, where BWs are getting 90+% of their kills from ult. wtf is that??? This issue became apparent to me during last week's weekly with tzeentch twins and Vanguard where there is an insane amount of mob.

The ult is strong but its not OP
This misses the point entirely. Its strength is pretty strong and i dont know if it is OP or not, thats not my point. The point is that you literally can sit there and block and still get all the kills.

who cares if all the kills are from ult
Youre right. I dont care about that. There is melee only, and ranged only, so why not ult only. Again this isnt the point. Melee only or ranged only actually require skill. Ult only involves casting ult, killing everything, then just hold block and dodge. Sure other classes could also in theory only use their ult and dodge, but weirdly BW gets stronger the more enemies there are. Her AoE and DoT damage are the best in the game so she only gets more effective as enemies pile up.

ok so BW gets all her kills from ult and its not OP, whats your problem?
Dont you think BW should have to work for it? BW doesnt have to do anything. They can do things, but they dont have to. On harder difficulties BW's numbers will skyrocket since no one can keep up with the aoe dmg, but again they still dont need to do anything and they get stronger as the difficulty goes up. wtf.

lets get weird with it
Let me put my money where my mouth is. Im pretty sure it is completely possible to get 100% ult kills and still top the leaderboard on kills. It will be insanely boring, but will be strong.
my build real quick: definitely go fire from ash and i went with Volans quickening (im not sure if the double fire is better, probbly is on higher difficulties). Stacked blockcost reduction and stamina for max block and push. obvi got +10cd reduction on the trinket
Here we go: first try[imgur.com] Legend difficulty

I didnt top the leaderboard and it was insanely boring, but it is definitely possible. i had to actually kill some specials cuz my team was all melee, but outside of that and a few stragglers i killed due to muscle memory, the gameplay was insanely boring. I literally just held block and i still did comparable to Gk and slayer in terms of kills. i have 25 non ult kills, 91% of my kills are ult kill and i still contributed fairly to my team.

this hero is broken, it needs a rework, but also its fine in terms of balance lolwut? idk... this just doesnt feel right. it seems super dumb to have a hero only use ult and still be completely fine.

[Grr. [SG CMD] Majah Lazah]

Originally posted by Gomer Pyle:

The problem with

Thge problem with Sienna period is she is one actual vehicle scattered halfassedly over three classes.

[Lilith™]

no

[Pacipoodillie]

I'm not sure I understand fully what you think is a problem with Battle Wizard. The scoreboard pic you linked showed pretty much exactly what you described, which would be a player trying to contribute as minimally as they can. 4.4k damage/1k monster certainly isn't a negligible contribution but I would think it's what someone should expect to get from only using a career's ability and not any other part of their kit. Pic also shows a WP leading in kills and damage over a GK and Slayer, albeit with lowest monster damage.

[CHAO$$$]

@topic
Her (double) ult is most likely bugged and does more damage than intended. (It currently does way more than kaboom which is supposed to be the damage version)

Even if that gets fixed tho..
The broken thing about Sienna is infinite cleave in addition to high damage on numerous of her tools - coruscation, flaming flail, burn build flamesword/dagger. Imo everything that ignores cleave limitations in a game where cleave limit is an important mechanic is inherently not ideal.
Its kinda fine on shield heavy1 because it really does no damage and is all control but theres more offenders that fall into the same category even though most of those are worse than what sienna has for one reason or another. (pre nerf moonbow was arguably BETTER than what sienna has tho)

Infinite cleave already made hordes obsolete and with tools like siennas that dont care about armored/non armored (e.g. in comparison to rapier flense or IB flamer) mixed hordes have pretty much become irrelevant.

^Imo all of these are a problem - the cleave resistance mechanic should apply to all tools in the game to some degree. If things let you ignore game mechanics they are always going to end up either completely useless (because they have to be balanced that weak) or overpowered with no good middleground. (Stealth being another good example of letting you ignore game mechanics here)

@above again
Legend isnt exactly a great example for this to begin with. Siennas tools get better and better the more difficult the content becomes and the more enemies show up.

[HunApo]

Such a wall of text with soo little meaning in it.
Linking a scoreboard shot from a tutorial match where you did nothing and got carried should prove what exactly?

Originally posted by Gomer Pyle:

The problem with battle wizard (BW) is that outside of the career skill (ult) this hero is not required to do anything ...

The very first sentence describes the issue is not with the class itself but a problem that you dont really understand "how" BW works and what she is capable of.

[BIG E.]

Its time to cry about BW now ? I see.

Here is an idea, why don't we just nerf everything, remove every property from the game and play without talents and white weapons ? Because apperantly any class that performs above average must be changed in some way.

[Xdiespa]

Sienna is the least used character because of the inherent complexity of handling overheat, and you want it nerfed because some poor souls still bear with it? Have some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ respect for the outliers, do you really want to live in a world where everyone is an elf player.

[cape]

I suspect that you're assuming that Total kills - (Ranged + Melee) = ult kills? However, grenade and especially DoT kills also fall outside of the ranged and melee tally. A BW with fire sword and extra DoT damage can easily still top the scoreboard without using the ult even once and the numbers will show that same discrepancy between total and ranged + melee.

I guess you could make the exact same argument for WP then, All he has to do is walk around blocking and kill stuff with his ult shield... also extremely boring. So why would you play like that? What a weird thing to get hung up on.

[puzzlefox]

Have you tried this in true solo? You may only be having a decent kill count from finishing off enemies that your team have already bonked once.

Also depends on the difficulty. On legend and below everything just melts from anything. Plus, idk, I play with a pretty darn good BW, and my WHC can easily keep pace with her and is arguably no more difficult to use.

In higher difficulties, firewalk is used more for utility than killing. Rescue, knockback, and ledging. I think BW is fine. Its a fair trade for being easily pressured by armor.

[s0laris]

Originally posted by Gomer Pyle:

lets get weird with it
Let me put my money where my mouth is. Im pretty sure it is completely possible to get 100% ult kills and still top the leaderboard on kills. It will be insanely boring, but will be strong.
my build real quick: definitely go fire from ash and i went with Volans quickening (im not sure if the double fire is better, probbly is on higher difficulties). Stacked blockcost reduction and stamina for max block and push. obvi got +10cd reduction on the trinket
Here we go: first try[imgur.com] Legend difficulty

You got carried. Congratz.

[Xdiespa]

There used to be a time when you could actually score 99% of your kills through the ult: before Resourceful Combatant was nerfed, and the internal proc given a cooldown.

[yaeMhay]

Well Battle Wizard should be called Pyromancer bec she lit on fire everything and Pyromancer should be called Battle Wizard bec she has more attack speed and no overcharge slowdown perks.

Well with that out of a way, Battle Wizard is only class that can cheat on every map, reaching unattainable places.

[puzzlefox]

Originally posted by yaeMhay:

Well with that out of a way, Battle Wizard is only class that can cheat on every map

It's not cheating. Her and the maps have an open relationship.

[No emaN]

Hey aren't you that one guy the blocked me because I asked what potato you were hosting on? The only reason why I asked that was because I witnessed wizard getting hit through blocking and after I was getting hit through block shortly after. If I recall you just sat in the back as a Huntsman spamming longbow and got clapped immediately without your frontline to carry you. It was rather hilariously quick not even 10 seconds before you rage D/C'd. Thanks for the barrels of laughs that night.

Moving on... Sienna in general tends to have staffs that are CC orientated that become less effective against armor but they are best at unarmored infantry which are most of the units in the game. (I'm going to ignore Cors staff due to DLC) If they're taking bolt staff they must charge the bolt to penetrate super armor and gain full dmg. Now they're going to rely on their melee for hordes and CC applications.
I'm not sure what you mean BWs getting 90% of kills from their ult? Relying on Famished Flames and Kaboom can help with density but Burnout is better with its safety and stagger. I'm guessing you mean BWs getting kills with Kaboom + LF or its just Famished Flames with FFA (Fires from Ash). Even then DoTs take time to kill especially an armored units. While LF offers safety and a kill by kiting but you're just better off letting your allies getting the kill. Famished Flames just encourages spamming spells for DoT and Fire Sword & Ceremonial Dagger heavy 1 spam is still attempting to contribute.

Are you trying to ask for a nerf on Crowd Control on a character that has several staffs that tackles CC differently and melees made to get enemies off of her and have decent output? If you're going to rely on only your ult it's not going to pay off that well and your team will out perform you hands down. Blocking and doing nothing is not helping the team keep back the tide.

TBH that's like asking for Witch Hunter Captain to lose Fervency from his talents and to remove Killing Shot from his passives (I refuse to call them perks). Cause he has too much elite killing power and can kill packs of elites for pressing the F button! Shouldn't Shade and WHC have to earn their kills like everyone else just because they got a crit to a head or back? Shouldn't Bounty Hunter have to earn a kill on a monster outside of his ult? The point is we can point out things we believe is not "fair."

In your example you were carried yet again by rando's. The only thing you do using only your career ability only is throw more weight on your team. By Sigmar at least try to complain about the WS and PM's auto aim abilities since you could just spam those for more immediate damage and without effort. At least try to sound convincing.

BW has cheese with her ult but no one forces you to exploit. Other ults are better BW maintains safety and easy monster ledges.

[Ittrix]

Leaderboard score doesn't mean ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, folks. The battle wizard usually tops in kills. Who cares? It's what she's good at in the first place, and it doesn't mean much overall.

Leaderboard doesn't talk about positioning, the value of your kills, whether your teammates could have handled you not killing, stagger, clutch plays, good heal usage, whether you went down a lot, and whether you helped with rezzes.

I *could* take a shade with max movement speed who jav spams all the elites ahead of the entire group and then dies, but I would much prefer a teammate who keeps line of sight with their buds, divides up the work, and covers flanks even if it means they'll get less kills.

By doing nothing but spamming ult, you're less useful than both of them. Leaderboard doesn't mean ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.