Do some attacks hit through block, and what should I dodge?

[Koro]

I'm trying to use things other than shields because while I do well with them, I don't like my lack of knowledge locking out playstyles. It feels like sometimes when I go to parry something as WH I get hit despite seeing green shields. I looked it up and what I found was that it could be ping, but that doesn't explain why it happens when I'm hosting. Can't tell if I'm meant to try and parry everything or dodge some attacks, if so is there a list of which ones are vital to dodge? Tips for hordes would be nice too as honestly without a shield they just feel 10x harder.

TLDR: read the title

[Andrewbh2003]

by default the only attacks that can bypass your block are certain attacks from monsters

all standard attacks even overheads "though these cost a lot of stamina to block and are best dodged otherwise you risk running out of stamina" are blockable

as for hordes pushing dodge dancing and making sure you never get surrounded or completely blocked off are good general rule of thumbs

[CombustiblSquid]

Unless you really want to do a parry focused build, I wouldn't worry too much about timing every block. I generally only use direct blocking when I have no other choice and much rather use the stamina for push-attacks. Dodging tends to work a lot better for avoiding damage especially on a career like WHC (pro tip: assign jump and dodge to different keys). That said, The only attacks that are unblockable come in the form of non-melee attacks like troll bile or unblockable melee attacks like the heavy smashes from rat ogres and chaos spawns. Also, you can't block if your block has been broken by running out of stamina.

[Koro]

Originally posted by Andrewbh2003:

by default the only attacks that can bypass your block are certain attacks from monsters

all standard attacks even overheads "though these cost a lot of stamina to block and are best dodged otherwise you risk running out of stamina" are blockable

as for hordes pushing dodge dancing and making sure you never get surrounded or completely blocked off are good general rule of thumbs

Originally posted by CombustiblSquid:

Unless you really want to do a parry focused build, I wouldn't worry too much about timing every block. I generally only use direct blocking when I have no other choice and much rather use the stamina for push-attacks. Dodging tends to work a lot better for avoiding damage especially on a career like WHC (pro tip: assign jump and dodge to different keys). That said, The only attacks that are unblockable come in the form of non-melee attacks like troll bile or unblockable melee attacks like the heavy smashes from rat ogres and chaos spawns. Also, you can't block if your block has been broken by running out of stamina.

Thanks both of you. I'm not too used to dodging as knocking over every enemy around me seemed to consistently be the best option with shields. Seems like I shouldn't really be bothering with parries until I'm better at this kinda stuff so I'll focus on dodging more. Riposte just seems like such a great perk

[Alasthor]

No, there are no attack that can litteraly make you lose health if you have stamina (the shield when you block) left.
Now, there are some attack that are heavily taxing your stamina or even destroying it all at once. If this happen (or you lose your last stamina shield), then you will stagger on the next hit, which leave you in a vulnerable position where you can't dodge/parry.

What to dodge or what are the most deadly attack:
-Monster attack, Chaos Warrior, Mauler and storvermin overhead attack, and bestigor charge are always heavy hitting your stamina. Unless you have a tons of BCR (Block Cost Reduction), at least 90%, you will pretty much lose all your stamina. Even then if you don't have a weapon with a lot of stamina (like shield weapons), the hit will make you lose everything.
Try to avoid them as much as possible. It's doable with Chaos Warrior, can be tricky with bestigor charge, but doable, and can be quite hard with some monsters.
Just remember to always block while dodging, until you get the feeling of enemies attacks.

-Monster all got at least one attack that will make you lose everything, unless you have 100% BCR (it doable, but only a few class can achieve this). Usually they are obvious on the animation, being overhead (Troll or Rat Ogre) or the grab attack of the Chaos Spawn. Minotaur got overhead and his charge too.

Now, to improve: learn the stagger capacity of your weapon and on which animation. If it's not staggering much, you'll need to feel the moment a horde is getting to close and you need to dodge. You'll also need to be very careful with every elite as you'll have little chance to stagger there attack.
If your weapon stagger lot, then learn what attack can be interrupted and when. Staggering a Chaos Warrior is not easy, but possible with the right weapon. But staggering them when they are in the middle of their animation is even more difficult.

Know that the type of the weapon (sharp, blunt, shield) tend to play a role in this stagger capacity, as well as hero power. Maybe the property of the weapon (like +10% against chaos, etc...), but I'm not sure about this one.

Once you'll know the capacity of your weapon, you'll learn wich kind of enemy need to be dodge and when (everytime, only if overhead, even if overhead)

Quite long to read, but I hope it'll help to improve your survivability.

[Koro]

Originally posted by Alasthor:

No, there are no attack that can litteraly make you lose health if you have stamina (the shield when you block) left.
Now, there are some attack that are heavily taxing your stamina or even destroying it all at once. If this happen (or you lose your last stamina shield), then you will stagger on the next hit, which leave you in a vulnerable position where you can't dodge/parry.

What to dodge or what are the most deadly attack:
-Monster attack, Chaos Warrior, Mauler and storvermin overhead attack, and bestigor charge are always heavy hitting your stamina. Unless you have a tons of BCR (Block Cost Reduction), at least 90%, you will pretty much lose all your stamina. Even then if you don't have a weapon with a lot of stamina (like shield weapons), the hit will make you lose everything.
Try to avoid them as much as possible. It's doable with Chaos Warrior, can be tricky with bestigor charge, but doable, and can be quite hard with some monsters.
Just remember to always block while dodging, until you get the feeling of enemies attacks.

-Monster all got at least one attack that will make you lose everything, unless you have 100% BCR (it doable, but only a few class can achieve this). Usually they are obvious on the animation, being overhead (Troll or Rat Ogre) or the grab attack of the Chaos Spawn. Minotaur got overhead and his charge too.

Now, to improve: learn the stagger capacity of your weapon and on which animation. If it's not staggering much, you'll need to feel the moment a horde is getting to close and you need to dodge. You'll also need to be very careful with every elite as you'll have little chance to stagger there attack.
If your weapon stagger lot, then learn what attack can be interrupted and when. Staggering a Chaos Warrior is not easy, but possible with the right weapon. But staggering them when they are in the middle of their animation is even more difficult.

Know that the type of the weapon (sharp, blunt, shield) tend to play a role in this stagger capacity, as well as hero power. Maybe the property of the weapon (like +10% against chaos, etc...), but I'm not sure about this one.

Once you'll know the capacity of your weapon, you'll learn wich kind of enemy need to be dodge and when (everytime, only if overhead, even if overhead)

Quite long to read, but I hope it'll help to improve your survivability.

Yeah this entire reply I think will be a massive help, thank you. I do have to ask, is it better to run stamina cost reduction or going for tons of stamina?

[Andrewbh2003]

Originally posted by no duel in 3v3 ♥♥♥♥♥♥:

Originally posted by Alasthor:

No, there are no attack that can litteraly make you lose health if you have stamina (the shield when you block) left.
Now, there are some attack that are heavily taxing your stamina or even destroying it all at once. If this happen (or you lose your last stamina shield), then you will stagger on the next hit, which leave you in a vulnerable position where you can't dodge/parry.

What to dodge or what are the most deadly attack:
-Monster attack, Chaos Warrior, Mauler and storvermin overhead attack, and bestigor charge are always heavy hitting your stamina. Unless you have a tons of BCR (Block Cost Reduction), at least 90%, you will pretty much lose all your stamina. Even then if you don't have a weapon with a lot of stamina (like shield weapons), the hit will make you lose everything.
Try to avoid them as much as possible. It's doable with Chaos Warrior, can be tricky with bestigor charge, but doable, and can be quite hard with some monsters.
Just remember to always block while dodging, until you get the feeling of enemies attacks.

-Monster all got at least one attack that will make you lose everything, unless you have 100% BCR (it doable, but only a few class can achieve this). Usually they are obvious on the animation, being overhead (Troll or Rat Ogre) or the grab attack of the Chaos Spawn. Minotaur got overhead and his charge too.

Now, to improve: learn the stagger capacity of your weapon and on which animation. If it's not staggering much, you'll need to feel the moment a horde is getting to close and you need to dodge. You'll also need to be very careful with every elite as you'll have little chance to stagger there attack.
If your weapon stagger lot, then learn what attack can be interrupted and when. Staggering a Chaos Warrior is not easy, but possible with the right weapon. But staggering them when they are in the middle of their animation is even more difficult.

Know that the type of the weapon (sharp, blunt, shield) tend to play a role in this stagger capacity, as well as hero power. Maybe the property of the weapon (like +10% against chaos, etc...), but I'm not sure about this one.

Once you'll know the capacity of your weapon, you'll learn wich kind of enemy need to be dodge and when (everytime, only if overhead, even if overhead)

Quite long to read, but I hope it'll help to improve your survivability. :winter2019coolyul:

Yeah this entire reply I think will be a massive help, thank you. I do have to ask, is it better to run stamina cost reduction or going for tons of stamina?

depends on the weapon but generally speaking "especially for cata" 60% BCR is not optional and basically mandatory with how important stamina is

[kuli]

I found that situations in which I thought I got hit through block were situations in which I took more than two hits in more or less the same frame.

Let's say you tank an overhead attack which completely drains your stamina and get hit by a random slave at the same time because both attacks have lined up perfectly. The second hit will be able to 'get through' and deal damage when in fact your guard was broken right before by the overhead.

Chances are you get downed even though you were blocking and felt safe while doing so. All situations in which you think you got hit through block are in fact rather messy situations where you got surrounded. Also keep in mind that attacks that come from outside your effective block angle hit for 100% stamina cost without factoring in mitigation from block cost reduction or innate weapon stats.

[Koro]

Originally posted by Andrewbh2003:

Originally posted by no duel in 3v3 ♥♥♥♥♥♥:

Yeah this entire reply I think will be a massive help, thank you. I do have to ask, is it better to run stamina cost reduction or going for tons of stamina?

depends on the weapon but generally speaking "especially for cata" 60% BCR is not optional and basically mandatory with how important stamina is

Kind of a shame that I have to get rid of attack speed or crit power on most things for it but really thanks, that survivability I feel like will help massively

Originally posted by kuli:

I found that situations in which I thought I got hit through block were situations in which I took more than two hits in more or less the same frame.

Let's say you tank an overhead attack which completely drains your stamina and get hit by a random slave at the same time because both attacks have lined up perfectly. The second hit will be able to 'get through' and deal damage when in fact your guard was broken right before by the overhead.

Chances are you get downed even though you were blocking and felt safe while doing so. All situations in which you think you got hit through block are in fact rather messy situations where you got surrounded. Also keep in mind that attacks that come from outside your effective block angle hit for 100% stamina cost without factoring in mitigation from block cost reduction or innate weapon stats.

There have been games where I would be going against a single stormvermin and I'd parry but still get hit, it feels like they may be a delay when raising the weapon but I'm not quite sure. You may be right about that group thing though, might start running block angle on some weapons.

[Ardariel]

THere is one attack that people forgot to mention, that is even more dangerous, that "going through block: attask.

If you stay too close to some elite units (SV, mauler, CW) they can PUSH you. While they do so - you have NO block. So even if you have full stamina you could be completely wiped in fraction of seconds by horde.

[kuli]

Originally posted by no duel in 3v3 ♥♥♥♥♥♥:

There have been games where I would be going against a single stormvermin and I'd parry but still get hit, it feels like they may be a delay when raising the weapon but I'm not quite sure. You may be right about that group thing though, might start running block angle on some weapons.

You will not take damage from a single SV if you parry its attack with the right timing.

Also, do not start putting push/block angle on your weapons. It's a noob trap and wastes one valuable property slot. Adjusting your block angle (i.e. facing the enemies that are about to attack you) is something you've got to learn to maximize safety when dodges fail or are not possible.

[Koro]

Originally posted by kuli:

Originally posted by no duel in 3v3 ♥♥♥♥♥♥:

There have been games where I would be going against a single stormvermin and I'd parry but still get hit, it feels like they may be a delay when raising the weapon but I'm not quite sure. You may be right about that group thing though, might start running block angle on some weapons.

You will not take damage from a single SV if you parry its attack with the right timing.

Also, do not start putting push/block angle on your weapons. It's a noob trap and wastes one valuable property slot. Adjusting your block angle (i.e. facing the enemies that are about to attack you) is something you've got to learn to maximize safety when dodges fail or are not possible.

Thank you for the advice, luckily I haven't started re-rolling anything yet.

[Emilia Tempest]

With a shield weapon you can block any melee attack (bile troll puke and gas rat gas still hurts you!).
Any other melee blocks every attack except a few attacks from monsters(which are mostly overhead swings, so basically. If the attack comes from above = unblockable). Oh and the Chaos Warrior has an fist bump attack that goes through your block(not through shield weapons), its not really dodgeable since its fast.

Even with no stamina you can still block but beware that you are staggered then and if an attack hits you then you do not block it and get hurt.

And for hordes, try to always run and dodge into one direction. Never do a dance from left to right since more often then not you run into an attack you dodged prior. Block and push are your friends while fighting hordes!
Like sometimes just doing like 2-3 attacks > push > repeat does the trick(depending on the weapon you can attack more or less often).

Also, good to know is also that dodging doesnt make you invincible. The only thing that happens is that the enemy attack tracking stops at when you dodged. So dont think dodging into an attack will leave you unharmed (personal experience ahem).

But do not spam dodge like a madman since you get tired which makes your dodge very, very bad(you barely move away when exhausted) so just space out your dodges!

Hope anything I said was new and not just a repeat of what the others said! Goodluck mate and keep trying!

[Warhämmer |D.w.D|]

every over head attacks or charged swings because the block cost are massive

[Jabberwock]

Just wanted to add that you can get hit during push attack even though it keeps showing shields the whole time. Not the same as parry not working but there is a way to get hit with shields showing.