Skeletal Archers for Necro?

[The Rank Below Bronze]

I think it would be a nice option to add skeletal archers to one of the captsone talents. Maybe replace half of barrrow blades with flame archers? The reason why I suggest this is because I've taken a liking to the dps of the coruscation staff, but its basically a shotgun that leaves you vulnerable to long range specials like ratling gunners and blightstormers.

[靐]

Skels purpose is tank and distract and your is to safely dps. I think even if we consider having skels archers their dmg output will be really pathetic + no more stunlocks. Also about being vulnerable to the ranged... Grail knight and warrior priest of Sigmar wants to know your location.

[The Rank Below Bronze]

Originally posted by No emaN:

How about skeletons we can set to follow/defend an ally instead of us? Cause you know... team game? Cause Dread Seneschal when it first came out gave me the idea that I could defend & follow a backliner and still allow for skeles to take pressure off the frontline. Instead I have to use a static position and have them to the attack a set enemy. If I moved too far away they came back to go coddle auntie Sienna. Minions have their uses but they're just a free ventilation tool, in real situations I know I can't rely on them.

Having the skeletons defend an engineer bardin would be pretty great. Poor guy is always getting smacked while tryin to show off his shiny gun.

[The Rank Below Bronze]

Originally posted by -D:

Also about being vulnerable to the ranged... Grail knight and warrior priest of Sigmar wants to know your location.

The whole reason i made this post is i got into a game where i was using coruscation staff, and my teamates were slayer, grail knight, and warrior priest. It was a nightmare lol

[靐]

Originally posted by The Rank Below Bronze:

Originally posted by -D:

Skels purpose is tank and distract and your is to safely dps. I think even if we consider having skels archers their dmg output will be really pathetic + no more stunlocks. Also about being vulnerable to the ranged... Grail knight and warrior priest of Sigmar wants to know your location.

The whole reason i made this post is i got into a game where i was using coruscation staff, and my teamates were slayer, grail knight, and warrior priest. It was a nightmare lol

Happens, but you could switch to the beam staff since you already have strong melee team (unless it is ongoing game). Also you can order your skels to charge into something, unless it is really FAR away (well just hide?).

Also slayer can have throwing axes with inf ammo so feel free to blame him for ruining your perfect run : D

[The Rank Below Bronze]

Originally posted by -D:

Originally posted by The Rank Below Bronze:

The whole reason i made this post is i got into a game where i was using coruscation staff, and my teamates were slayer, grail knight, and warrior priest. It was a nightmare lol

Happens, but you could switch to the beam staff since you already have strong melee team (unless it is ongoing game). Also you can order your skels to charge into something, unless it is really FAR away (well just hide?).

I joined mid-game. We got wiped by a blightstormer on a roof.

[b4NXa]

Originally posted by The Rank Below Bronze:

Originally posted by b4NXa:

Replacing AotD: I don't know how you would replace their taunt abilities with archers, also stagger can't imagine that as bows are known not to be fast hitters.
Replacing Barrows: already told about staggers, for DoTs lower AS means less DoTs which will lower their perfomance dramatically as leaving that as main hold and not giving on expexted is kinda sad.
Replacing Senechals: can't imagine how would you not lose that utility with not leaving 3 armored senechals and 3 hammers being replaced with bows. Let's say we exchange 50% buff to HP and DMG for 100% DMG buff specifically for bows and "oh God" two- or God forbid one-shotting rats, I already see the point in which you will be like "damn, am I even needed here? my skellies do all the work, and my teammmates focus on elites and higher".

Alternatively, make 6 fast high-DPS archers, but time limited (20 sec, for instance), the question is who should they replace?

If one had to be replaced it would probably be Barrows. Maybe i tested them wrong but the DoT doesnt seem to get applied on every hit. It seems like its getting applied every second or third hit making it the roughly the same DPS as Senechals, but half as tanky.

But I think rather than replacing a capstone entirely they just get mixed into the group. For example, Senechals spawns 3 warhammer skellies and 3 sword and shield skellies. What if it was 2 warhammer, 2 sword and shield, and 2 archers. When commanded to defend, the archers would be placed behind the others. Same with Barrows and Army of Dead. 4 swords wielders and 2 archers. As for how useful the archers are in close quarters combat and during hordes, make sure that the arrows pierce enemies and maybe give them a dagger that they can swap to?

However, as someone said above, skeleton archers don't really fit sienna for lore reasons.

Barrow blades, as I noticed apply DoTs on every hit, however it sometimes looks, that they don't renew DoT duration.

[The Rank Below Bronze]

Originally posted by b4NXa:

Barrow blades, as I noticed apply DoTs on every hit, however it sometimes looks, that they don't renew DoT duration.

But the DoT doesn't stack right?

Either way I think it would be great if Barrow Blades applied Malediction of Nagash, increasing their own damage after their first attack, which could also in turn trigger soul harvest. It would probably be way too OP, but it sounds damn fun.

[Pyro Penguin]

Originally posted by Soka Ried:

from a lore perspective, skelly archers are pretty hard to create. only tomb kings and the vampire coast can create undead with the ability to use ranged weapons. so Sophia/Sienna would have to have pretty secret knowledge in an already pretty secret field of study.

that sounds like really dumb lore that was used to justify some kind of game balance in rts games

[b4NXa]

Originally posted by The Rank Below Bronze:

Originally posted by b4NXa:

Replacing AotD: I don't know how you would replace their taunt abilities with archers, also stagger can't imagine that as bows are known not to be fast hitters.
Replacing Barrows: already told about staggers, for DoTs lower AS means less DoTs which will lower their perfomance dramatically as leaving that as main hold and not giving on expexted is kinda sad.
Replacing Senechals: can't imagine how would you not lose that utility with not leaving 3 armored senechals and 3 hammers being replaced with bows. Let's say we exchange 50% buff to HP and DMG for 100% DMG buff specifically for bows and "oh God" two- or God forbid one-shotting rats, I already see the point in which you will be like "damn, am I even needed here? my skellies do all the work, and my teammmates focus on elites and higher".

Alternatively, make 6 fast high-DPS archers, but time limited (20 sec, for instance), the question is who should they replace?

If one had to be replaced it would probably be Barrows. Maybe i tested them wrong but the DoT doesnt seem to get applied on every hit. It seems like its getting applied every second or third hit making it the roughly the same DPS as Senechals, but half as tanky.

But I think rather than replacing a capstone entirely they just get mixed into the group. For example, Senechals spawns 3 warhammer skellies and 3 sword and shield skellies. What if it was 2 warhammer, 2 sword and shield, and 2 archers. When commanded to defend, the archers would be placed behind the others. Same with Barrows and Army of Dead. 4 swords wielders and 2 archers. As for how useful the archers are in close quarters combat and during hordes, make sure that the arrows pierce enemies and maybe give them a dagger that they can swap to?

However, as someone said above, skeleton archers don't really fit sienna for lore reasons.

For me, Barrows always applied DoTs on their hits.

However, sometimes they do seem to not refresh DoTs duration. That may be just an observation, that comes from skellies just not hitting targets sometimes. As for DPS, DoTs do synergise well with you being the mainhold of DMG. I'm playing heavy melee build for Necromancer and 20% buff just makes it so good for me. Should've stated, that for DPS purposes I expect player to inflict DMG aswell.

As for Senechals being a 2-2-2 seems for me like Jack-of-all-Trades good at nothing or good at everything. 2 armored guys are like dude what exactly are the going to taunt? Narrow paths? Sure but what abit everything that's not a narrow path? 2 hammers, I've noticed that with Senechals hammers are the first to die smh. It, as for my personal observations, will just make you lose your charge faster. 2 archers, what will be their special ability? Maybe piercing arrows? What order will they perform them on? Additional button will break core gameplay of Defend Order and Attack Order and add an additional learning just for one talent choice. Assigning it for Attack Order? It will conflict with charge as enemy is supposed to fall after that and what will be Piercing Arrows be good on shooting enemies on the ground? Maybe you have some better ideas on implementation, I'll be glad to hear them.

[Butcher]

Originally posted by Pyro Penguin:

Originally posted by Soka Ried:

from a lore perspective, skelly archers are pretty hard to create. only tomb kings and the vampire coast can create undead with the ability to use ranged weapons. so Sophia/Sienna would have to have pretty secret knowledge in an already pretty secret field of study.

that sounds like really dumb lore that was used to justify some kind of game balance in rts games

Swinging sword is easier than good aiming. Vampire count skeletons are mostly badly made puppets, tomb king skeletons have some traces of past lives to various degree including weapon proficiency.

[b4NXa]

Originally posted by The Rank Below Bronze:

Originally posted by b4NXa:

Barrow blades, as I noticed apply DoTs on every hit, however it sometimes looks, that they don't renew DoT duration.

But the DoT doesn't stack right?

Either way I think it would be great if Barrow Blades applied Malediction of Nagash, increasing their own damage after their first attack, which could also in turn trigger soul harvest. It would probably be way too OP, but it sounds damn fun.

2 stacks as always, and they do increase their DMG, however it doesn't work without an attack order as their base attack DMG is 1 and 20% buff isn't enough to increase it to 1.25 (DMG is counted in quarters for some reason).

[b4NXa]

Originally posted by b4NXa:

Originally posted by The Rank Below Bronze:

But the DoT doesn't stack right?

Either way I think it would be great if Barrow Blades applied Malediction of Nagash, increasing their own damage after their first attack, which could also in turn trigger soul harvest. It would probably be way too OP, but it sounds damn fun.

2 stacks as always.

My mistake, it's actually 3 stacks. And Soul Harvest does work with skellies.

[Lu2]

ability to reanimate enemy instead of 6 skeletons ?

[b4NXa]

Originally posted by Lu2:

ability to reanimate enemy instead of 6 skeletons ?

Pretty much nerfing those people who keep staying bodies setting low. How about, implementing standing points of resurrection, somewhat like in Diablo. Killed enemies leave piles of flesh in place of their death. Sounds good, but in fact will greatly increase requirements for your GPU and CPU. And increasing tensions on your PC and/or console just for Necromancer being present sounds wrong.

Otherwise, collecting souls and embodying them in avatars, I hope that sounds like resurrection. The main problem here is balance. How exactly will you balance usual rat grunt and CW, for instance? Longer cooldowns? Skill becomes more punishing and harder to efficiently use, as having CWs for example wasted for a horde instead of a monster might feel frustrating. Leaving skill exclusively for harder fights will make it a deadweight most of your playtime. Timed resurrection? Say goodbye to your ventilation tool while getting literal nothing in return. Non-timed ressurection? Damn, she's running with a CW or maybe even more than one, how enemies are supposed to hit through their armor? Resing little guys? How's that different from usual skellies, but without special abilities. I'm not even talking about idea of storaging as I can't imagine how to implement it without overcomplicating UI and resing someone with their storaged soul from across the map, where their body fell feels sketchy.

Another variant, Mind Conrol as Sofia did in ToT, same balance problems, but now with much less Necrovibes. Better call off career Mind Flayer or smth like that.

As always, glad to hear your suggestions.