Is Winds of Magic balanced now?

[Swanky]

Reading through the reviews of Winds of Magic it seems most of the complaints revolve around the imbalance of Beastmen. So since a good amount of time has past... has this changed at all? Is it WoM "worth" the purchase now?

[Kreddi]

I used to be a opponent of the Beastmen, (I dont own WOM but I joined a couple of lobbies that had Beastmen.) but after playing through Chaos Wastes a good deal I've come to learn to handle them.
Imo they will still make the overall game harder, but it feels -somewhat- fair in my opinion.

[BlackCockDown]

The weapons are really good, the mission is meh and the beastmen still suck compared to the other two enemies. Weaves are a gimmick and cataclysm might be your only other reason for getting it. Truly a high risk (of ruining your missions) high reward DLC.

Originally posted by Kreddi:

Imo they will still make the overall game harder, but it feels -somewhat- fair in my opinion.

They are playable yes but are still objectively less fun simply because of the lack of audio/visual cues for their attacks, constant stabbing from behind the frontline and the archers. This is a game where skaven slingers don't exist nor do gutter runners get shurikens, yet somehow the beastmen can spam archers that are so inaccurate they either hit you whether you stand still or dodge.

[BIG E.]

Beastmen is still ♥♥♥♥♥♥. The reason why they are annoying is their attack animations and range.

Fighting horde of gors is very different than fighting a horde of marauders or rats. Gors can headbut you from africa and its harder to cleave through multiple of them. Meaning its a lot easier to get hit against beastmen.

[Swanky]

Thanks! Guess I'll hold out on the DLC then. Cata isn't my schtick and I guess I can live without the weapons and weaves.

[Wolfman]

Originally posted by Swanky:

Thanks! Guess I'll hold out on the DLC then. Cata isn't my schtick and I guess I can live without the weapons and weaves.

I've never bought WoM and everytime I have to deal with Beastmen it's like a confirmation that the game is more fun without it.

[Chizakura]

My personal feelings on it are probably way in the minority b/c I kinda enjoy just about everything. I like having the cata difficulty, I like the aesthetic of the Dark Omens map, I don't like the beastmen all that much, but I'd rather have them than not (I do think they need to be tuned some so that things like their animations match with us getting hit), and the weapons are pretty good to great. I even like the Weaves and have gotten through like half of them.

But, like I said, ymmw... by a lot. I think most people who get this, get it for the weapons and cata difficutly. If that's at least worth it to you, I say go ahead, but maybe wait for the next sale. These things go on sale all the time and I'm willing to bet that next one's around the corner with the major summer sale.

[S4V6]

Originally posted by Swanky:

Reading through the reviews of Winds of Magic it seems most of the complaints revolve around the imbalance of Beastmen. So since a good amount of time has past... has this changed at all? Is it WoM "worth" the purchase now?

You have 63 hours on record you shouldn't be worried about WoM.
And cata isn't your thing because you haven't even reached Legend yet which is understandable with 63 hours played.

Don't listen to those negative nancies in here, Beastman aren't as much as a problem as people make them out to be.
They are just unable to adjust to a different type of enemies and would rather complain than to work on it.
Typical

[Dixu]

beastmen are really annoying to fight, not challenging, annoying
banners are annoying because the knock you back and trash mobs are unkillable when buffed by banners
archers are annoying if you can't shoot them back and have to slowly walk up to them while holding block
bestigors are annoying if you have no room to dodge their homing head charge
and don't even start me on minotaur, fighting it is very taxing on your stamina, he attacks faster than other monsters, and you need more space to dodge dance because it's the only monster that requires you to dodge sideways on the triple attack

these are some of the reasons why beastmen are disabled in tournaments

[S4V6]

Originally posted by Dixu:

beastmen are really annoying to fight, not challenging, annoying
banners are annoying because the knock you back and trash mobs are unkillable when buffed by banners
archers are annoying if you can't shoot them back and have to slowly walk up to them while holding block
bestigors are annoying if you have no room to dodge their homing head charge
and don't even start me on minotaur, fighting it is very taxing on your stamina, he attacks faster than other monsters, and you need more space to dodge dance because it's the only monster that requires you to dodge sideways on the triple attack

Pretty much none of what you said is remotely true.
First off banners only give buffs to stagger and a gradual HP buff, enemies can still be killed. They gradually recover HP - guess what that does?
Yes the enemy still takes damage what a surprise.
Maybe people should fight them instead of running away like scared little cats.

Secondly the banner knockback is not that bad and not the only thing that can knock you back.
Assassins can also knock you back when a teammate gets pounced on, also SV and CW push you, so this mechanic is not that uncommen.
How somebody claiming all this above has never experienced this despite claiming to have knowledge about it I will leave up to the readers.

Bestigors can pretty easily be dodged, it becomes an issue when you are surrounded by alot of enemies or other elites.
Enemies because of no room to move and elites as stated above can push you.
IT can happen quite frequently that you get pushed into the bestigor, in which case you can't avoid getting hit.

As for Minotaur, jesus where do I start with all these false claims, well for one he doesn't attack faster than other monsters, his 3Slam attacks are as fast as Chaos Beasts attacks and his standing attacks (the headbutt and right arm swin) are also the same.
You also don't need more space because Minotaur has this bug where it can't reach you when you stand really close to it, by really close I mean that you have to hug his crutch pretty much. If you do that he can barely attack you.

You could have tested all this yourself buddy by just going into modded realm and spawning a Minotaur

[Dixu]

Originally posted by S4V6:

Pretty much none of what you said is remotely true.
First off banners only give buffs to stagger and a gradual HP buff, enemies can still be killed. They gradually recover HP - guess what that does?
Yes the enemy still takes damage what a surprise.
Maybe people should fight them instead of running away like scared little cats.

it's called an exaggeration, beastmen are virtually unkillable when buffed by banners
do you play anything above champion?

Secondly the banner knockback is not that bad and not the only thing that can knock you back.
Assassins can also knock you back when a teammate gets pounced on, also SV and CW push you, so this mechanic is not that uncommen.
How somebody claiming all this above has never experienced this despite claiming to have knowledge about it I will leave up to the readers.

assassins and elite knockbacks can be avoided, banner knockback can't be avoided
also nice reading comprehension I never said it's the only thing in the game that can knock back

Bestigors can pretty easily be dodged, it becomes an issue when you are surrounded by alot of enemies or other elites.
Enemies because of no room to move and elites as stated above can push you.
IT can happen quite frequently that you get pushed into the bestigor, in which case you can't avoid getting hit.

again, reading comprehension, I already said they're an issue when you have no room to dodge

As for Minotaur, jesus where do I start with all these false claims, well for one he doesn't attack faster than other monsters, his 3Slam attacks are as fast as Chaos Beasts attacks and his standing attacks (the headbutt and right arm swin) are also the same.
You also don't need more space because Minotaur has this bug where it can't reach you when you stand really close to it, by really close I mean that you have to hug his crutch pretty much. If you do that he can barely attack you.

I'm well aware of the mino exploit, I'm talking about fighting it without exploits, you cannot dodge the slam backwards, you need room to dodge sideways, no other monster requires you to dodge sideways

[BlackCockDown]

Originally posted by Dixu:

beastmen are really annoying to fight, not challenging, annoying
banners are annoying because the knock you back and trash mobs are unkillable when buffed by banners
archers are annoying if you can't shoot them back and have to slowly walk up to them while holding block
bestigors are annoying if you have no room to dodge their homing head charge
and don't even start me on minotaur, fighting it is very taxing on your stamina, he attacks faster than other monsters, and you need more space to dodge dance because it's the only monster that requires you to dodge sideways on the triple attack

Pretty much, I don't feel challenged playing the beastmen, I feel like I'm just getting a normal round but with added tedium. You can't really do much about archers if your lobby is ammo scarce. Banners during hordes suck, they don't feel like "oh crap watch out" events like the disabling specials they just make the horde enemies more tedious. In chaos wastes the chest event may be wargor spam that is almost unbeatable without a bomb-stacked elite lobby.

I do like the bestigor charge though, it actually feels unique and feels like a novel extension of elite enemy attacks that require side-stepping.

I can't say much about the minotaur though, the few times I get one my annoyances came from the other enemies (Dark Omens final event) rather than the minotaur itself. Then again most lobbies have a dedicated boss killer and my Bretonnian longsword does alright against the triple-hit combo.

[S4V6]

Originally posted by Dixu:

Originally posted by S4V6:

Pretty much none of what you said is remotely true.
First off banners only give buffs to stagger and a gradual HP buff, enemies can still be killed. They gradually recover HP - guess what that does?
Yes the enemy still takes damage what a surprise.
Maybe people should fight them instead of running away like scared little cats.

it's called an exaggeration, beastmen are virtually unkillable when buffed by banners
do you play anything above champion?

Secondly the banner knockback is not that bad and not the only thing that can knock you back.
Assassins can also knock you back when a teammate gets pounced on, also SV and CW push you, so this mechanic is not that uncommen.
How somebody claiming all this above has never experienced this despite claiming to have knowledge about it I will leave up to the readers.

assassins and elite knockbacks can be avoided, banner knockback can't be avoided
also nice reading comprehension I never said it's the only thing in the game that can knock back

Bestigors can pretty easily be dodged, it becomes an issue when you are surrounded by alot of enemies or other elites.
Enemies because of no room to move and elites as stated above can push you.
IT can happen quite frequently that you get pushed into the bestigor, in which case you can't avoid getting hit.

again, reading comprehension, I already said they're an issue when you have no room to dodge

As for Minotaur, jesus where do I start with all these false claims, well for one he doesn't attack faster than other monsters, his 3Slam attacks are as fast as Chaos Beasts attacks and his standing attacks (the headbutt and right arm swin) are also the same.
You also don't need more space because Minotaur has this bug where it can't reach you when you stand really close to it, by really close I mean that you have to hug his crutch pretty much. If you do that he can barely attack you.

I'm well aware of the mino exploit, I'm talking about fighting it without exploits, you cannot dodge the slam backwards, you need room to dodge sideways, no other monster requires you to dodge sideways

Above champion LMAO

Seeing you are still keeping up this type of arguing no matter what I say., it wont change anything.

People with little knowledge will give unsolicited advice to other people here on the forum.

Then you have people complaining about low level player.

I mean you take advice from people here on the forum when you could just read 1 of the guides on steam.

This circle jerk will continue to infinity I suppose.

People take unsolicited advice -> dont get the result they would have hoped for -> complain about bad players -> People taking unsolicited advice

Amazing

[Dixu]

Originally posted by S4V6:

Above champion LMAO

Seeing you are still keeping up this type of arguing no matter what I say., it wont change anything.

People with little knowledge will give unsolicited advice to other people here on the forum.

Then you have people complaining about low level player.

I mean you take advice from people here on the forum when you could just read 1 of the guides on steam.

This circle jerk will continue to infinity I suppose.

People take unsolicited advice -> dont get the result they would have hoped for -> complain about bad players -> People taking unsolicited advice

Amazing

good job not even addressing the biggest issue I mentioned: ranged trash mobs in a melee game
you're not even worth a jester

[Mysterious Sir Knight]

Originally posted by Swanky:

Reading through the reviews of Winds of Magic it seems most of the complaints revolve around the imbalance of Beastmen. So since a good amount of time has past... has this changed at all? Is it WoM "worth" the purchase now?

If you ask me, Beastmen have never been broken to begin with. I'm gunna quickly go over each of their enemy types and talk about their so called poor balance on a deeper level than just using the word 'balance'.

- Trash Enemies; The Beastmen trash are interesting, when compared to the other factions I'd say they're a funky alternative version of Northlanders, the difference is that they traded some of their numbers for more effective offence. Its not unbalanced, they are simply more oppressive than people are used to.

- Beastmen Archers; No idea why people complain about these guys, they make NO tangible difference 99% of the time, and that 1% of the time is when you're walking around on 1 hp and no THP. Otherwise they're basically just trash that stands behind everything until you come kill them.

- Bestigors; I'm fairly sure the Bestigors are the least complained about part of Beastmen, they are basically just big Stormvermin that can charge at you from long distance.

- Standard Bearers; These guys are classified as Specials and spawn as such, they place down a banner that buffs all Beastmen in the area, making them far chunkier. People complain about these by saying "WAAAH, EVERYTHING IS INVINCIBLE", and to that I say; have you tried, yuh know, destroying the banner? Weaving/pushing through the groups of buffed Beastmen to destroy the banner is quite fun if you ask me.

- Minotaurs; I love Minotaurs myself. Essentially their Shtick is their double-tap hit in their running attack combo that can break your block and hit you at the same time. Morons who don't think with an objective and finding-a-solution mind-set struggle with this, but there are many ways to counter it. First, is to just jump as you get hit, this will send you flying backwards out of range to safety. 2nd, you can just not let them use their running attack and stay in close range. And that leads me to their weakness, to contrast their extra effective running attack, they have very poor close range attacks, of which there are two; a side-dodgeable guard shattering Headbutt that sends you flying backwards, and a blockable undodgeable sweep. See the issue here? If you just stand right in its face and block & side-dodge each time he attacks, you can just chill in his face and happily hit him between each attack.

[VisionofFire]

Originally posted by Mysterious Sir K:

If you ask me, Beastmen have never been broken to begin with. I'm gunna quickly go over each of their enemy types and talk about their so called poor balance on a deeper level than just using the word 'balance'.

Wasn't around for WoM release, but based on jtclive's video and other posts at the time, it sounds like there were a lot of problems with beastmen on release. But I can't personally comment, since I joined this community much more recently.

https://youtu.be/1L8xSGRdg2g?t=123