Is Grail Knight Op or Not?

[John Sacrimoni]

So today i encountered someone on Legend that said that Grail Knight was pay to win. I asked them about warrior priest but then they disbanded the party. Any opinions on if Grail Knight is op or not?

[Digital-Dreams]

Short answer: On Legend every class is OP, in Cata he's not.

[Laetum]

How do you even "Pay to WIN" in a coop game?

[Mania]

Grail Knight is imho the best elite and boss killer, and his quests provide some great buffs. This is balanced out by his lack of ranged weapon, so specials are MUCH harder to deal with.

Overpowered? Probably not. The only time I found him busted was with X sword, crit chance and attack speed buff from quests, and RV ales. That combo can make a Chaos patrol an easy solo.

Warrior Priest is similar, except he fulfills the role of support tank (compared to Grail Knight damage dealer). He can provide great regen and revive others, and his weapons are exceptional. I wouldn’t call him overpowered either, just pretty damn good at his job.

[Ol'Chum]

GK has damage and a lot of it. He lacks range but he has powerful temp hp builds with shield and stagger or just pure insane elite decimation. His ult is a nice 1 tap to CW's to and only on 40 sec cd. I wouldn't consider him op. He is a good melee career but that's just it, a good melee career. Quite a few careers can match his melee damage and bring something else to the table like Shade or SoT without committing to being only melee.

Benchmark of what should be considered OP is bright wizard, now that career is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ broken imho

[John Sacrimoni]

Originally posted by Teddy Demon:

How do you even "Pay to WIN" in a coop game?

To be fair I just think the guy was high cause how tf is it pay to win, you gotta rely a majority of the time on your teammates if you want to complete a mission.

[Lucien Lachance]

Originally posted by Mania:

Grail Knight is imho the best elite and boss killer, and his quests provide some great buffs. This is balanced out by his lack of ranged weapon, so specials are MUCH harder to deal with.

Overpowered? Probably not. The only time I found him busted was with X sword, crit chance and attack speed buff from quests, and RV ales. That combo can make a Chaos patrol an easy solo.

Warrior Priest is similar, except he fulfills the role of support tank (compared to Grail Knight damage dealer). He can provide great regen and revive others, and his weapons are exceptional. I wouldn’t call him overpowered either, just pretty damn good at his job.

Crutching on ult for boss damage is a bad setup for bossing. I prefer having high dps without the ult being 100% necessary. I guess the only exception is BH if you can constantly headshot.

[Mania]

Originally posted by Lucien Lachance:

Originally posted by Mania:

Grail Knight is imho the best elite and boss killer, and his quests provide some great buffs. This is balanced out by his lack of ranged weapon, so specials are MUCH harder to deal with.

Overpowered? Probably not. The only time I found him busted was with X sword, crit chance and attack speed buff from quests, and RV ales. That combo can make a Chaos patrol an easy solo.

Warrior Priest is similar, except he fulfills the role of support tank (compared to Grail Knight damage dealer). He can provide great regen and revive others, and his weapons are exceptional. I wouldn’t call him overpowered either, just pretty damn good at his job.

Crutching on ult for boss damage is a bad setup for bossing. I prefer having high dps without the ult being 100% necessary. I guess the only exception is BH if you can constantly headshot.

I’ve found that X sword with the crit talent with consistent headshots can do a number on bosses. I could never pull off the BH chain headshot, though.

[radz74]

Originally posted by Mania:

I’ve found that X sword with the crit talent with consistent headshots can do a number on bosses. I could never pull off the BH chain headshot, though.

Could you keep it pg and on topic. We don't want to hear about who you have or haven't been pulling off.

[765]

Not on cata, no.

[BILLY HAIRYNGTON (=^.^=)]

no class is op. only player matters. i soloed chaos wastes on cata from start to finish with citadell of eternity and arenas as well as normal maps using bounty hunter and grail knight. does that mean they are op? no. i could not do that with unchained but i saw people soloing maps on cata with unchained. so does that mean unchained is op? no. you can see on youtube that people solo this game with any class with many different builds. it's all about player. there is nothing pay to win in this game

[Khal'cynee]

i think its an easier slayer playstyle, more tanky, less risky but almost same reward; high mele delete
slayer have epic mobility but its harder to exploit right his strength

[No emaN]

To the players that want to focus on Grail Knight not being 'overpowered' Please come off it for five minutes. Melee is the most consistent form of damage in this game taking advantage of most of Kruber's arsenal is no small feat combined with some of the best single target melee DPS in the game close to Slayer and Shade perhaps even greater in some situations.

Blessed Blade (Virtue of Audacity) /w only Smiter no other power vs *4000 to 3,536.5; 463.5 every 40 seconds. That is ignoring Concoction potion use. Now with only the strength effect 4,000 to 3,436 dealing 564 every 40 seconds. Combine this with his potion regen with concoction with an ult already ready to use seconds after the effect. 1027.5 health from a monster/lord with a tiny bit of prep isn't something to scoff at for being ready with ult and the capacity of pushing a monster 4x. An on demand x2 CW kill on a 40 sec C/D and x4 CW kill with concoction trait is severely powerful in a short-term situation.

Virtue of the Ideal is a steady power increase for breakpoints, especially paired with Virtue of Discipline. Now imagine this with charm and your secondary melee weapon property paired with Smiter and Knight's Challenge.

If you don't want any of that pressure you can take Virtue of the Knightly Temper and stack crit chance investment for a total 35% onto Executioner's Sword Heavy attack to 1 shot any elite in Cata 3 Deathwish. Y'know pretty standard elite killing power that any career can achieve easily with a single attack.

This isn't even mentioning his team support of Virtue of the Penitent with its strength potion regens enabling Bounty Hunters and Outcast Engineers to be at their peak gameplay. Pair this with being a high-kill power frontline with Stagger, Cleave, AND damage. The benisons vary per team comp in terms of value but are a nice little addition.

All of this for the downside of 'no ranged' only situation you struggle in are multiple blightstormers. Flank Warpfire Throwers at corners learn to dodge and use Executioner's forward thrust or movetech. Ratling Gunners have em' shoot each other, get to another position, wait til they stop firing after they whittle each other down. Against multiple specials in melee is a weakness of any career stuck in melee has. The 'downside' poses no warrant as most build I see GK's with don't even use a shield (that's if they can manage proper shield etiquette).

The skill floor for Grail Knight is an all time low which perceptibly grants a pay to win mentality due to the low paywall inside of lower difficulties where 1-shot breakpoints are often easily achieved. The appeal of utilizing skill ceiling denoting of a player's individual skill is relative and unrelated in terms of balancing due to biases. What a career can achieve with next to no experience tends to be the most troubling of endeavors as it builds a false pretense to their skill level. Similar to a Ironbreaker relying upon Gromril Armour paired with Gromril Curse to deal with disablers and hits. Subtle passives and other talents can become a crutch that can be viewed with disdain within a community. Grail Knight, Witch Hunter Captain, and Shade exemplifies this in their raw kill power. Even with a low-skill level a player can output and perform well to some degree if they have a base understanding of the game and due to the raw strength given to them. Their low skill floor and high skill ceiling makes these careers more delectable to choose and thus an oversaturation of these guys will show in more serious team comps when the team needs the damage flowing. AKA they're big powerful pubstomping careers you don't need to be too good to perform well with them, but when more stressful situations arise they thrive while potentially testing their skill ceiling needs to be pressed.

[B-O-N]

Originally posted by Teddy Demon:

How do you even "Pay to WIN" in a coop game?

You know that you can win in coop games too?

[Digital-Dreams]

Originally posted by FINAL SOLUTION ENTHUSIAST =^.^=:

no class is op. only player matters. i soloed chaos wastes on cata from start to finish with citadell of eternity and arenas as well as normal maps using bounty hunter and grail knight. does that mean they are op? no. i could not do that with unchained but i saw people soloing maps on cata with unchained. so does that mean unchained is op? no. you can see on youtube that people solo this game with any class with many different builds. it's all about player. there is nothing pay to win in this game

I'd say this is relatively spot on, we certainly don't need a TLDR seven paragraph essay to explain this. But it's not my time *shrugs*

[Niinix]

Grail Knight can't deal with blightstormers(on average) due to ranged limitations, sure you might have a bomb in an emergency but that doesnt help against the second blightstormer. Pay to Win? No. Pay to be Slightly better than the average at melee? Sure, but they pay in versatility.