What’s the point of Ironbreaker?

[Kao]

This isn’t a rant, ’tis a real a question for cultured people (cata+).

So, I was never a big Bardin main, and I’m trying to figure out which career I’d eventually like to explore more in depth.
Recently I spent some more time on IB, and I just don’t feel like he brings anything of worth to the team, I mean, as much as a tank should. His ult specifically, feels very very niche. How many times is everyone so ♥♥♥♥♥♥ that IB’s ult really shines?

Coghammer/dual hams and handgun are amazing, but I feel like other Bardin careers can make just as good a use of them.
I have seen LOTS of ironbreaker mains since VT1 (yea he was kind of an IB already), and aside from the free hit (that we shouldn’t take anyway) and the fire toys, I just don’t get it.

Why IB instead of Ranger or Engineer? (Slayer is in its own weird category I’d say). Don’t get me wrong, IB does the job, but it feels a bit bland utility-wise.

I’m looking for reasons to go further with that career people.

[EvilNando]

a really well put career skill can change the tide of the battle when facing really strong enemies, (chaos patrol or 150%/200% stormvermin spawn)
with gromgil armor you can go very much on the offensive without worrying getting hit you the damage output is quite good if you have good weapon stats combo
finally trollpedo is a decent monster killer

also very good choice if you have high ping to the host

[The Fountaineer 🖋]

Because he lives and supports. You can idle him with a shield, swing recklessly with barkskin and take like a dozen hits from all angles, kite bosses and elites without a scratch, save pretty much anyone who’s down, draw attention to crucial chokepoints, ledge monsters.

Ignore the “DPS is all I think about” crowd. They just will never get it.

[Kao]

Originally posted by The Fountaineer 🖋:

Because he lives and supports. You can idle him with a shield, swing recklessly with barkskin and take like a dozen hits from all angles, kite bosses and elites without a scratch, save pretty much anyone who’s down, draw attention to crucial chokepoints, ledge monsters.

Ignore the “DPS is all I think about” crowd. They just will never get it.

I usually main Kruber footknight and he does all of that, I mean not the invincible part but with spear/shield and a brain you don’t really get hit at all. These sound more like what any good cata+ player can do with pretty much any class, general skills sort of. I don’t care much for DPS on a tank, that’s not really an issue.

Originally posted by EvilNando:

a really well put career skill can change the tide of the battle when facing really strong enemies, (chaos patrol or 150%/200% stormvermin spawn)
with gromgil armor you can go very much on the offensive without worrying getting hit you the damage output is quite good if you have good weapon stats combo
finally trollpedo is a decent monster killer

also very good choice if you have high ping to the host

So, good in some very tense moments, good when you get hit too much, and good when host has pings? I agree on these points, but that’s the thing, it seems... a bit lackluster compared to the other tanks’ potential ;/

[Sigma Female]

He has some synergy with Shade, but honestly even in terms of supporting your team Ranger Vet brings so much more than Ironbreaker. IB is mostly just a dummy character for new players to learn the game or try out higher difficulties.
Oh, and he makes a great bot.

[Chizakura]

Yeah, in a game where the point is to kill stuff and fast, on the surface, it would seem like IB doesn't offer as much as some of the others. But, like EvilNando and Fountaineer mentioned, his ability to take/avoid damage and cc to a degree with his ult (also making him even tankier) along with the addition of trollpedo and others enable him to be decent at monster killing or a really good elite killer.

I used to be a ws/shade main (along with GK and engi), but after the last shade re-tooling/cockup - that's kinda fixed now I guess - and the the bloodshot nerf/fix (which really doesn't nerf her all that much which goes to tell you just how much of a genuine balance issue it was/wasn't), I'm kinda hanging her up and going full Bardin who basically has 4/4 for classes that are fun.

This is when, previously, when I mainly only played engi/slayer (both fun careers for me), I decided to revisit IB and lemme tell you, he can be an elite killer, a boss dmg dealer, total dmg dealer and still be tanky and create space and relief for your teammates.

I just dug this up from 2, 3 weeks ago and it's just legend, but here's what he's capable of (good chance this was Tower):

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2958138163


edit: my bad, from the timestamp on the original ss, this couldn't be Tower, but maybe Trail or Convocation or something.

[Kao]

Originally posted by Chizakura:

Yeah, in a game where the point is to kill stuff and fast, on the surface, it would seem like IB doesn't offer as much as some of the others. But, like EvilNando and Fountaineer mentioned, his ability to take/avoid damage and cc to a degree with his ult (also making him even tankier) along with the addition of trollpedo and others enable him to be decent at monster killing or a really good elite killer.

I used to be a ws/shade main (along with GK and engi), but after the last shade re-tooling/cockup - that's kinda fixed now I guess - and the the bloodshot nerf/fix (which really doesn't nerf her all that much which goes to tell you just how much of a genuine balance issue it was/wasn't), I'm kinda hanging her up and going full Bardin who basically has 4/4 for classes that are fun.

This is when, previously, when I mainly only played engi/slayer (both fun careers for me), I decided to revisit IB and lemme tell you, he can be an elite killer, a boss dmg dealer, total dmg dealer and still be tanky and create space and relief for your teammates.

I just dug this up from 2, 3 weeks ago and it's just legend, but here's what he's capable of (good chance this was Tower):

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2958138163

Alright those are good points, I guess he’s just very versatile, which might explain why I have a hard time finding him useful in an unique way

[will i am]

becuase IB is a tank, hes just not liked as well because he's just stale and boring compared to almost every other career in the game, at least fortnight is slightly more interesting but he's not objectively better or anything

[JagdPanzer IV]

ironbreaker with a shieldmax build is a one man testudo formation. its a support career. my shieldmax build with 8 stamina shields can stagger basically any enemy thats not a boss, making them easy meat for the team to cut down. you wont get a single green circle even if you carry the whole team, but it makes legend runs a breeze.

[Donauwelle]

OP asked about Cata...
ppl start explaining basics for veteran and talk about their legend build

In comparison to OTHER tanks IN CATA,
IB is actually quite meh...
Seriously all other tanks and supports are more viable then IB....
All IB`s tools are tools you shouldnt need in Cata anymore.

For getting into Legend hes great. Hes a Beast....
But in Cata all the things he does, are things that shouldnt be needed.

You dont get hit you dodge, block and kill....
You dont kite with ults, you just use proppa dodging with the team + play max DPS to insta nuke the map.
You dont need invincibility cuz.... you dont get hit due to block, dodge and killing...

IB
in cata
Pointless...

Id rather pick Handmaiden with Shield`n`spear + Javelin then friggin IB to "tank" in cata

small shoutout for the flamethrower, that one is quite usefull but.... yeah.... thats it

[Ardariel]

you come from misconception, thst killing stuff is more important, than anything. It is wrong.

NEUTRALISING stuff is.

IB is a rock. Is a space creator. Team can always retreat to him if smth goes wrong. Instead of chaotic movement they gravitate towards IB (or any tank for that matter). Mixed horde with boss? Dont matter, IB can stop it and create space for a team to reload, kill specials and start clearing this mess. RV needs ult for that. OE needs ammo. Slayer cant do it whatsoever.

Also, IB dont have direct damaging skills, yet he have sloid weapon. Axe and shield is very good at clearing stuff, yet it requires player input, not just pop F to kill.

Also hard CC he provides instantly raises damage otput of a team by 40%.

DOnt believe me? Good for you!
Now start recording wins and lossesand observe on big enough data set, how you have around 20-0% more wins with IB in team.

Point is 0- flashy stuff like BH ult or chain lighning in CW attract attention. Yet it does not wins a game. A lot of stuff you cant see that easily, but it actually carries you. Like a good sniper in your team, that kills specials even before they attack your team. You dont see it, but he actually carries your team.

[Ardariel]

Originally posted by Donauwelle:

OP asked about Cata...
ppl start explaining basics for veteran and talk about their legend build

In comparison to OTHER tanks IN CATA,
IB is actually quite meh...
Seriously all other tanks and supports are more viable then IB....
All IB`s tools are tools you shouldnt need in Cata anymore.

For getting into Legend hes great. Hes a Beast....
But in Cata all the things he does, are things that shouldnt be needed.

You dont get hit you dodge, block and kill....
You dont kite with ults, you just use proppa dodging with the team + play max DPS to insta nuke the map.
You dont need invincibility cuz.... you dont get hit due to block, dodge and killing...

IB
in cata
Pointless...

Id rather pick Handmaiden with Shield`n`spear + Javelin then friggin IB to "tank" in cata

small shoutout for the flamethrower, that one is quite usefull but.... yeah.... thats it

man, you are so wrong on so many levels... Staring with a fact, that HM cant tank... best she can do is CC monks. WHat you are saying is good up to lege, but for cata best HM provides is survive and kite, she cant tank. At all. SHe just dont have anything that cant do it. And if by "tank" you mean "eat hits" - then other careers do it better. But this MMO style of thinking does not apply to this (or most) of games. Tanks should provide hard CC and space for a team, that is their main job. HM cant do either.l

[Ardariel]

Originally posted by Kao:

Originally posted by Chizakura:

Yeah, in a game where the point is to kill stuff and fast, on the surface, it would seem like IB doesn't offer as much as some of the others. But, like EvilNando and Fountaineer mentioned, his ability to take/avoid damage and cc to a degree with his ult (also making him even tankier) along with the addition of trollpedo and others enable him to be decent at monster killing or a really good elite killer.

I used to be a ws/shade main (along with GK and engi), but after the last shade re-tooling/cockup - that's kinda fixed now I guess - and the the bloodshot nerf/fix (which really doesn't nerf her all that much which goes to tell you just how much of a genuine balance issue it was/wasn't), I'm kinda hanging her up and going full Bardin who basically has 4/4 for classes that are fun.

This is when, previously, when I mainly only played engi/slayer (both fun careers for me), I decided to revisit IB and lemme tell you, he can be an elite killer, a boss dmg dealer, total dmg dealer and still be tanky and create space and relief for your teammates.

I just dug this up from 2, 3 weeks ago and it's just legend, but here's what he's capable of (good chance this was Tower):

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2958138163

Alright those are good points, I guess he’s just very versatile, which might explain why I have a hard time finding him useful in an unique way

Try monster aggro ult and axe+shield with opportunist and right BP. And watch your winrate getting up just by this 2 picks. Once you learn how to CC with shield against anything but monsters - you would feel impact by yourself.

[Ardariel]

Originally posted by Kao:

Originally posted by The Fountaineer 🖋:

Because he lives and supports. You can idle him with a shield, swing recklessly with barkskin and take like a dozen hits from all angles, kite bosses and elites without a scratch, save pretty much anyone who’s down, draw attention to crucial chokepoints, ledge monsters.

Ignore the “DPS is all I think about” crowd. They just will never get it.

I usually main Kruber footknight and he does all of that, I mean not the invincible part but with spear/shield and a brain you don’t really get hit at all. These sound more like what any good cata+ player can do with pretty much any class, general skills sort of. I don’t care much for DPS on a tank, that’s not really an issue.

Originally posted by EvilNando:

a really well put career skill can change the tide of the battle when facing really strong enemies, (chaos patrol or 150%/200% stormvermin spawn)
with gromgil armor you can go very much on the offensive without worrying getting hit you the damage output is quite good if you have good weapon stats combo
finally trollpedo is a decent monster killer

also very good choice if you have high ping to the host

So, good in some very tense moments, good when you get hit too much, and good when host has pings? I agree on these points, but that’s the thing, it seems... a bit lackluster compared to the other tanks’ potential ;/

1. Spear + shild is hands down worst weapon in game. I am on the record saying, that there are almost no bad weapons in game, and even elven 1hAxe have its small niche, that makes it almost useless, but it have one. Spear and shild, on other hand, do NOTHING that shield should do and is actively dangerous for a user due to unskippable attack animation of second swing, that also cant have enough stager to justify it.
   
   sword and shield, on other hand, one of best weapons in game. Once you learn to aim in a head - it kills CW VERY quickly (keep in mind, that yoly pushattack have aimassist, heavy follower dont - you need to be very precise to headshot with this part), it can mow down trash, it can CC anything, but bosses.
   
   
2. you got backwars part about intense moments. I LOVE foot knight, but his ult is only good for short intense moments, space for 1-2 seconds. 3 max, then we back to basic sheild stuff (which is very good still), IB can do 10-12 seconds. Or even more if team understands what IB is doing. YOu can pop ult and MOVE ENEMIS AWAY from a team. Sometimes it is more beneficial to just make space, though. It i sjudgement call, there is no iiversal recipe.
   
   Also IB dont rely on ult for this alone. You can also use passive for what FK do. And more or less with same frequency.
   
   What FK DO have over IB - mobility. That can also be crucial. But he is as good tank as IB only for a brief moments, rest of time he is just a shield user. Which is VERY good, but you can do same with merc, for example. Or huntsman.
   
   
3. i already said it earlier in another post, but IB is what creates space. Only another class that is somewhat close to IB in terms of it is BW. And for sure, BW is heads ahead from any other career in a game in terms of impact on it, rivaled only by WHC. So IB job is to be what team is fighting around. Creating opportunity for a teammates to shot specials, regroup and restore stamina, making bubbles of "safe space" to opperate and srot out and neutralise threats. He makews game easier for other players. And once you learn attack chainst with axe+shield, he would also kill stuff himself.
   
   2 main to operate is heavy_1 + ligh + heavy+3 vs horde (or just chain heavy if you are skille denough)
   and light2 + heavy_2 (how you got to light_2 does not matter, after heavy_2 your next light attack would be light_2 so tht is a chain action) v elites and monsters.
   In most cases even on cata, sadly, people dont know those and they consider IB no damage (or low damage) career, hing is, he can do solid damage, but unlike a lot of other careers require active and constand input for a user.

[VernonKun]

All those tanky roles are invented at the beginning of the game where book runs are a thing, and tanky characters are best book carriers, at least for the average players.

If not for book runs, I found that it is useful for lower skilled players to tag along, or for people to play at higher ping.

[Red Sabre]

Training wheels for champion players to legend