Why did Sister of the Thorn became so Unintresting lately???

[Mira]

I Find the Last Sister of the Thorn was too Strong. Now it's too weak...

- Options to be a Lift Class for the whole teammate.
- You never get the most kills... or you hardly need to work on it.
- Javs the most Overpowered weapon in the game right now. due to Moonbow nerf.

[BeelzebubSips]

Here we go...

[HunApo]

Great, another post by the recruit player.

[Brozong]

She is still incredibly strong, just more support strong now instead. up to 25% bonus damage and increased healing for the whole party and she still leeches temp health. The ability to lift enemies is still too strong in my opinion, and since she is constantly getting free health, venting is no issue.

Certainly less interesting in the solo play sense but much more fun as a support.

[Cipher Esteria]

New week, new elf thread.
This place never changes

[TaKo]

Originally posted by Brozong:

just more support strong now instead.

not sure why people insist shes a support

her only aspect id directly call consistent support is the passive that increases party healing, and RI is mehdiocre

the debuff is nice but for most enemies its a selfish debuff and debuffing is debuffing, not support, even if it does help the team

staff lifting is disabling not support and while only she can use it shes not tied to it

and the walls are more a hindrance than support in most situations they get used in lol

[bacon]

extra healing and temp overflow alone make the class strong. the poison debuff is good support. lift is nice against specials and chaos warriors.

use the big wall option and seal side hallways and back hallways. increases speed at which team moves through the map. block off hordes from behind and just keep moving forward, instead of squatting and clearing every horde.

dont put the wall in front of your team. its annoying. always side and back. look for doorways and hallways that are narrow enough for a tight seal. dont just stick a wall in the middle of a soccer field, doesnt do anything.

use the wall to split a patrol in half, making a tight seal in a hallway, if available. you get 10 seconds per big wall to deal with the half a patrol that isn't blocked. dont block the entire patrol at once; that just delays the inevitable. the purpose of the wall is to split up enemy groups, not cause them all to stack up behind the wall and then unleash in a wave when the wall comes down.

using the big wall optimally requires spatial reasoning, which some people just dont have.

[Brozong]

Originally posted by TaKo:

not sure why people insist shes a support

You have a fairly strict definition of support but even going by what I assume it is, she can afford to take healshare which is support and has a talent that gives allies bonus power and crit when using radiance.

[The Fountaineer 🖋]

Thorn is a support. Her attacks debuff enemies, she can provide crit chance to the team, her Repel talent creates constant protection against mobs, she generates THP literally by doing nothing, she heals the whole party more effectively, and her wall becomes extremely effective on Cata when plugging the horde/specials can become a necessity.

Now Thorn is less of a damage creep and more party oriented, she’s fun as hell. You can still delete nearly everything on your own but at least she passively helps the team more.

Also, “disabling is not supporting” is the stupidest thing I’ve read on the forum today, congrats. Lets see if we can take the pedantry to a new level next time.

[RNG_Wizard]

Originally posted by TaKo:

Originally posted by Brozong:

just more support strong now instead.

not sure why people insist shes a support

her only aspect id directly call consistent support is the passive that increases party healing, and RI is mehdiocre

the debuff is nice but for most enemies its a selfish debuff and debuffing is debuffing, not support, even if it does help the team

staff lifting is disabling not support and while only she can use it shes not tied to it

and the walls are more a hindrance than support in most situations they get used in lol

I mean, yeah. If you ignore every single support tool in her kit, she isn't really much of a support. I've never thought of it like that.

[TaKo]

Originally posted by RNG_Wizard:

]I mean, yeah. If you ignore every single support tool in her kit, she isn't really much of a support. I've never thought of it like that.

well if you are silly enough to also think just playing in general is supporting the team sure, everyone is a support class! woo!!!

i named everything that could even be considered 'support', i didnt ignore anything tho, thanks
edit:guess i forgot blackvenom thicket, the only version of her skill that can stagger monsters, and for some reason the only version that applies the venom, also the only version that doesnt spawn an annoying wall that blocks movement and line of sight

[Runic Tunic]

Originally posted by TaKo:

Originally posted by Brozong:

just more support strong now instead.

not sure why people insist shes a support

her only aspect id directly call consistent support is the passive that increases party healing, and RI is mehdiocre

the debuff is nice but for most enemies its a selfish debuff and debuffing is debuffing, not support, even if it does help the team

staff lifting is disabling not support and while only she can use it shes not tied to it

and the walls are more a hindrance than support in most situations they get used in lol

Couple reasons. For one, she was advertised as such and several aspects of her kit were "supposed" to be used that way. Obviously that wasn't the case though because FS overtuned her. That's why they reworked her. So she more accurately represented the support role she was meant to take.

Also, I'm not sure how disabling and debuffing wouldn't be considered supportive, considering support is anything that disables/debuffs enemies, or buffs allies. She also provides a heal buff if I remember correctly. Obvious there's crossover of roles, but clearly some careers are more supportive than others.

Either way, you can think she wasn't a support, but according to FS she is and always was intended to be. The fact you think she wasn't kinda shows why she needed the rework to begin with.

[K]

Because Fatshark don't want you to have fun :)

[TaKo]

Originally posted by Runic Tunic:

Also, I'm not sure how disabling and debuffing wouldn't be considered supportive, considering support is anything that disables/debuffs enemies, or buffs allies. She also provides a heal buff if I remember correctly.

issue is that by that way of thinking nearly every career is a support career in some way, which i guess is not fully wrong since its a co-op game... but i do definitely think other careers do a way better job at supporting their teams than sister

and the disable from the staff IS nice and can support a team but to me its in the weird situation of being exclusive to her(which makes sense) but then sister still has access to the rest of elf's ranged weapons repertorie... also, ya know, why disable when u can kill, death is the best CC(yes i know in certain situations its gonna be easier to lift and lift doesnt care about one shot breakpoints but u get what i mean)

Originally posted by Runic Tunic:

Either way, you can think she wasn't a support, but according to FS she is and always was intended to be. The fact you think she wasn't kinda shows why she needed the rework to begin with.

oh i think she *isnt* not wasnt, never actually got to play her pre nerf/rework, tho i do know how she worked before and the bonkers values on old RI and how many crits she could get from old doomsight

idk, to me RI should just be a part of A Cluster of Radiants with the level 20 talents being all about different ways to increase the uptime/frequency of the buff rather having to choose between "give a buff to the team every 60 seconds" or "get better uptime on your career skill in either of 2 ways"

[Runic Tunic]

Originally posted by TaKo:

issue is that by that way of thinking nearly every career is a support career in some way, which i guess is not fully wrong since its a co-op game... but i do definitely think other careers do a way better job at supporting their teams than sister

and the disable from the staff IS nice and can support a team but to me its in the weird situation of being exclusive to her(which makes sense) but then sister still has access to the rest of elf's ranged weapons repertorie... also, ya know, why disable when u can kill, death is the best CC(yes i know in certain situations its gonna be easier to lift and lift doesnt care about one shot breakpoints but u get what i mean)"

Yeah every career "supports" each other in the sense you play as a team, but it's quite clear the majority fall into specific roles that make it easy to group into 3-4 different categories. For example:

-Waystalker, Slayer, OE, Zealot, BH, and Huntsman are closest to pure dmg category; offense only & any buffs they provide are self-centered and offensive in nature.

-WP, IB, and FS are in tank category: high health and abilities are designed to take focus off the team, reduce damage in some way, etc.

-WHC, SotT, RV, Mercenary, and GK are a dmg/support hybrid: offensive in nature, but their abilities are team-oriented, not self-oriented (team dmg buffs, enemy disabling, team healing, etc.)

Some may be better at supporting their team, but that doesn't make SotT not a support. She's just more offensive than IB or WP.

As for the staff, it's more of a situational thing, much like the hedge mechanic. If anything it just helps prevent being overwhelmed during situations when an immediate kill may not be possible (gunner during boss fight in a team of melee only, packrat in the middle of a pack of CW and a patrol, etc.)

Originally posted by TaKo:

oh i think she *isnt* not wasnt, never actually got to play her pre nerf/rework, tho i do know how she worked before and the bonkers values on old RI and how many crits she could get from old doomsight

idk, to me RI should just be a part of A Cluster of Radiants with the level 20 talents being all about different ways to increase the uptime/frequency of the buff rather having to choose between "give a buff to the team every 60 seconds" or "get better uptime on your career skill in either of 2 ways"

As I said, if that was the case, FS wouldn't have actively advertised her as a support before and during her release if that wasn't the intention. Clearly she wasn't being played as one (her dmg output was ridiculous to the point that everyone had nothing to do when she was on the team).

Criticism can definitely be had about how they changed SotT. There's possibly better ways to make her more useful in her role. But the question of "if" she was/is a support is pretty moot at this point.

[TaKo]

Originally posted by Runic Tunic:

As I said, if that was the case, FS wouldn't have actively advertised her as a support if that wasn't the intention
...
But the question of "if" she was/is a support is pretty moot at this point.

yeah im not disputing what they planned or envisioned for her, more disputing what we got and how it fits into the game, specially now after all the changes

and even going by your general 4 caterogries id argue sister fits more with the 1st one of mostly damage oriented careers