Zealot-, health-,healing- and other mechanic-questions

[Barath]

Hi. I still dont get many of the game-mechanics and have some questions:

Zealot, health & healing

1.) I recently started playing Zealot and realized, that I get boni from "fiery faith" even on "full" health, if a grimoire is equipped by my team. So it seems the Skill dosent count % of my total health missing, but actually the amount of HP under the normal maximum (without grimoires).
I wonder how does this interact with +HP% from Necklaces?
If I have a Necklace with +20% HP my Zealot gains 30 additional HP. What applies:
a) Do I need to loose 55 HP (30+25) for the first boni and 25 for the next?
b) Does it change the amount of hp per bonus: I get a stack of the bonus for each 30 Hp missing ( 150/25=6, 180/6=30)?
c) Can I have a maximum of 1 additional stack of "fiery faith" at very low health (150/25=6, 180/25=7,2)?
d) smthg else?

2.) The level 20-Talent of the Zealot "holy fortitude" increases my "recieved healing". What does count as "recieved healing"? Only direct healing from potions & bandages? Does it work on THP gained (by Zealots lvl 5 Talents "Sigmar’s Herald", "Repent Repent!" and/or other sources like Mercenarys "Morale boost")? Does it work on health gained through level-5 Talents of other players ("Font of Zeal", "Ariel’s Boon", etc)? Does it work with very small heals, like the HOT of "Natural Bond" and/or that of Waystalkers "Amaranthe" with "Rejuvenating Locus"?

3.) The same questions as in 2.), but for "Boon of Shallya".

Bounty Hunter & Rapier

4.) I played a BH with the Rapier and noticed, that the special-attack (the pistol shot) behaves a bit weird, regarding the matter if it counts as a ranged weaon. It DOES work with blessed shots (at least it gets the crit) but it dosent get the "ranged power"-bonus from the "Weight of Fire"-Talent. Are there other mechanics, where it behaves in a strange way? Are there Talents it works well/bad with?

5.) Is the pistol-shot of the Rapier usefull and if yes in what kind of situation and for what class (I barely ever use it - usually I use my ranged weapon instead, unless I am out of ammo)?

6.) I noticed, that the movement-speed dosent decrease notably while blocking with the rapier, but blocking with the 2H-sword drastically reduces movement speed, so it seems like different weapons modify movementspeed in a different way. Is this correct? Is there any data on this topic?

Blocking & pushing

7.) I noticed that the armory says, Krubers sword&shield has a higher push-(minimum-)range then most other weapons in Krubers arsenal (including mace&shield). What does that mean? Is it a good or bad thing? Which one has the better push, Sword&shield or Mace&shield?

8.) Can the block&push-angle of a weapon be increased above 180 (with properties on Necklace & Weapon) ?

9.) It seems not all enemies can easily be staggered, since there is some kind of "stagger-resistance". Unfortunatly the armory dosent show a stagger-value for different weapons. Where can I find out the stagger-strength of different weapons?

Thx for the help :)

[Pungent]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Vermintide/comments/90qola/a_list_of_everything_you_wish_fatshark_told_you/

This'll answer like 95% of everything you'd ever want to know without having to sink in hundreds of hours to figure it out on your own.

[Maitre Malterre]

Hello and welcome to the game - very good choice :)

I am glad that someone is very interested in the different properties (I will now say this in general) of the weapon types.

However, since there are a lot of specific questions, some players will probably give reasonable and usable answers / descriptions that will take you further.

All I know, is an address that lists a few basics. Since the game is constantly evolving - and there are slight to major changes - here is a page that answers a few of your questions and makes them a little more understandable.

https://vermintide2.gamepedia.com/Weapon_Characteristics


Edit: It is only the wiki for now, but generally there is also Reddit, as described above, and the Steam and Fatshark forum: https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/

[Müsliriegel]

First of with zealot you wanrt to be at 34hp. Thats the least ammount HP you want (with the 20% of the necklace) to get all buffs. Hes a temp. HP machine and will rely on it 99%. Always carry a medkit if you can/dont have a tome as you can get away skulls/grey vision by healing other team mates. Don't heal yourself as zealot as you will loose buffs and you build up temp HP so fast anyway.

Yes the increased healing also counts for temp. HP. Its a must have.

Pistol shot on rapier is great as you can block and at the same time shoot monks/berserkers that would otherwise definetly hit you if you mele them upfront.

[Barath]

Thanks alot for the quick and friendly answers

Originally posted by Pungent:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Vermintide/comments/90qola/a_list_of_everything_you_wish_fatshark_told_you/

This'll answer like 95% of everything you'd ever want to know without having to sink in hundreds of hours to figure it out on your own.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for that link. This is exactly the kind of source a theory-crafter like my wants to have. This reddit-post is rly helpfull.

Unfortunately NONE of my questions above is answered in that post. So if you do know some other source of that kind or an answer to any of the above questions, feel free to share...

Originally posted by Maitre Malterre:

Hello and welcome to the game - very good choice :)

I am glad that someone is very interested in the different properties (I will now say this in general) of the weapon types.

However, since there are a lot of specific questions, some players will probably give reasonable and usable answers / descriptions that will take you further.

All I know, is an address that lists a few basics. Since the game is constantly evolving - and there are slight to major changes - here is a page that answers a few of your questions and makes them a little more understandable.

https://vermintide2.gamepedia.com/Weapon_Characteristics


Edit: It is only the wiki for now, but generally there is also Reddit, as described above, and the Steam and Fatshark forum: https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/

Thx. Yes, it was a good choice. Tbh I bought it on sale, not knowing much about it and only tried it out recently... now I am totally hooked.
But its a bit hard to figure out all the game mechanics.
Thx for the links. I already knew the wiki (which is a bit outdated) but I didnt check the fatshark-forums yet, only the steam-community so far.
Guess if I dont get all the answers here, I can ask there as well.

Originally posted by Müsliriegel:

First of with zealot you wanrt to be at 34hp. Thats the least ammount HP you want (with the 20% of the necklace) to get all buffs. Hes a temp. HP machine and will rely on it 99%. Always carry a medkit if you can/dont have a tome as you can get away skulls/grey vision by healing other team mates. Don't heal yourself as zealot as you will loose buffs and you build up temp HP so fast anyway.

Yes the increased healing also counts for temp. HP. Its a must have.

Pistol shot on rapier is great as you can block and at the same time shoot monks/berserkers that would otherwise definetly hit you if you mele them upfront.

Ah! That is in fact nice to know, that the rapier can shoot and block at the same time.
I thought the increased healing to be useless, but if it works with THP I understand why its considered a "must-have". This completly changes my fiew on the class.
Thx alot 4 those infos.

Why is it "34hp" for the Zealot? With 20% necklace he should have 180 max-HP, every 25 HP he gets a bonus. How do you get to the number 34? Did you learn from experience or did you do the math yourself? Can you explain?



Sigmar bless you all for your help

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by Barath:

Thanks alot for the quick and friendly answers :hp_beli:

Originally posted by Pungent:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Vermintide/comments/90qola/a_list_of_everything_you_wish_fatshark_told_you/

This'll answer like 95% of everything you'd ever want to know without having to sink in hundreds of hours to figure it out on your own.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for that link. This is exactly the kind of source a theory-crafter like my wants to have. This reddit-post is rly helpfull.

Unfortunately NONE of my questions above is answered in that post. So if you do know some other source of that kind or an answer to any of the above questions, feel free to share...

Originally posted by Maitre Malterre:

Hello and welcome to the game - very good choice :)

I am glad that someone is very interested in the different properties (I will now say this in general) of the weapon types.

However, since there are a lot of specific questions, some players will probably give reasonable and usable answers / descriptions that will take you further.

All I know, is an address that lists a few basics. Since the game is constantly evolving - and there are slight to major changes - here is a page that answers a few of your questions and makes them a little more understandable.

https://vermintide2.gamepedia.com/Weapon_Characteristics


Edit: It is only the wiki for now, but generally there is also Reddit, as described above, and the Steam and Fatshark forum: https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/

Thx. Yes, it was a good choice. Tbh I bought it on sale, not knowing much about it and only tried it out recently... now I am totally hooked.
But its a bit hard to figure out all the game mechanics.
Thx for the links. I already knew the wiki (which is a bit outdated) but I didnt check the fatshark-forums yet, only the steam-community so far.
Guess if I dont get all the answers here, I can ask there as well. :emocompy:

Originally posted by Müsliriegel:

First of with zealot you wanrt to be at 34hp. Thats the least ammount HP you want (with the 20% of the necklace) to get all buffs. Hes a temp. HP machine and will rely on it 99%. Always carry a medkit if you can/dont have a tome as you can get away skulls/grey vision by healing other team mates. Don't heal yourself as zealot as you will loose buffs and you build up temp HP so fast anyway.

Yes the increased healing also counts for temp. HP. Its a must have.

Pistol shot on rapier is great as you can block and at the same time shoot monks/berserkers that would otherwise definetly hit you if you mele them upfront.

Ah! That is in fact nice to know, that the rapier can shoot and block at the same time.
I thought the increased healing to be useless, but if it works with THP I understand why its considered a "must-have". This completly changes my fiew on the class.
Thx alot 4 those infos.

Why is it "34hp" for the Zealot? With 20% necklace he should have 180 max-HP, every 25 HP he gets a bonus. How do you get to the number 34? Did you learn from experience or did you do the math yourself? Can you explain?



Sigmar bless you all for your help :empirecross:

Its 30 hp. At 34 you get the 2nd castigate buff for +20%as, at 30 you lack 150 hp for 6 stacks of power. At least i'm pretty sure that for castigate you need to be below 50% and 20% while for the regular stacks you only need to not have it as green hp.

Any of the other questions still unclear?

[Tight Sphinct MD]

Holy Fortitude and Boon of Shallya work anytime you get healed from any source(temp or permanent)

Most weapon info(including movement speed buffs and dodge count/range, push/block angle) can be found in the Armory

Stagger resistance and other enemy info can be found in the Bestiary

Many weapons can have a greater than 180 push/block angle(shields and spears)

[Barath]

Originally posted by Fryskar:

Its 30 hp. At 34 you get the 2nd castigate buff for +20%as, at 30 you lack 150 hp for 6 stacks of power. At least i'm pretty sure that for castigate you need to be below 50% and 20% while for the regular stacks you only need to not have it as green hp.

Any of the other questions still unclear?

Thanks. :)

Well, there are still too many questions unanswered ... ;)

So lets have a look:

1.) (The answer is d - smtg else) I did some testing myself on the Zealot and it seems, that its mostly literally: you get 1 stack of "fiery faith" for every 25 HP missing from your max-HP, BUT its only up to 5 stacks (gonna have to test this again to make sure - so correct me if I am wrong). This would mean with +20% Necklace you reach the max stacks (5) of fiery faith when you are at or below 55 (=150*1,2-5*25=180-125) HP. Castigate seems to be correct around 34-35 (0,2*180=36).
So max Stacks for fiery faith are at (with/without +20%HP-Necklace) at 55/25 HP, first Castigate buff at 79/74 HP, second castigate buff at 35/29 HP.

2.) All kinds of healing get increased, including THP and HOTs (I dont understand yet how this works with HOTs, since most of them give you only like 1 HP at a time... is it actually counting Numbers like 1,2 and just not listing the values? Or do Hots "tick" faster?)

3.) Same as 2.)

4.) -

5.) Rapier can shoot while blocking, good VS Berserkers/PlagueMonks. There might be more to this.

6.) -

7.) -

8.) Yes, weapons can have a greater block/push-angle then 180.

9.) -


So I dont have answers on 4.), 6.), 7.) 9.) and the answers on 2.), 3.) and 5.) could still be expanded.

Thx for the help

[Barath]

Originally posted by NerfBeard:

Many weapons can have a greater than 180 push/block angle(shields and spears)

Thank you!

Originally posted by NerfBeard:

Holy Fortitude and Boon of Shallya work anytime you get healed from any source(temp or permanent)

Thx.
Can you tell me, how it works with heals over time? Some of those only give 1 HP per second, so does the game count numbers like 1,2 as well or do they "tick" faster?

Originally posted by NerfBeard:

Most weapon info(including movement speed buffs and dodge count/range, push/block angle) can be found in the Armory

I didnt find any information on movement-speed penalitys when blocking (6.)) in the armory.
The Info on the push radius(7.)) is a bit cryptic: "Push Radius: The distance, in meters, from you that this weapon's push angles take effect." What does this mean? What happens to enemies, that are closer? Are they not pushed? Are they all (360) pushed? It is also interesting that there are only 3 weapons in the game, that have a different (higher) Push Radius then 2,5: Kruber's Sword&Shield, Tuskor-Spear, Kerillian's Spear&Shield.

Originally posted by NerfBeard:

Stagger resistance and other enemy info can be found in the Bestiary

Yes, but that Value dosent say much to me.
Whats the difference between a Stagger-resi of 1,5 and a stagger-resi of 5 or 100? Which weapons can beat those values and which cant? The armory dosent note anything like "Stagger-strength". Its like knowing the HP of an enemy, but not the damage of the weapon: Impossible to find breakpoints or even value the weapons in this regard.

Thanks for your help.

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by Barath:

Originally posted by Fryskar:

Its 30 hp. At 34 you get the 2nd castigate buff for +20%as, at 30 you lack 150 hp for 6 stacks of power. At least i'm pretty sure that for castigate you need to be below 50% and 20% while for the regular stacks you only need to not have it as green hp.

Any of the other questions still unclear?

Thanks. :)

Well, there are still too many questions unanswered ... ;)

So lets have a look:

1.) (The answer is d - smtg else) I did some testing myself on the Zealot and it seems, that its mostly literally: you get 1 stack of "fiery faith" for every 25 HP missing from your max-HP, BUT its only up to 5 stacks (gonna have to test this again to make sure - so correct me if I am wrong). This would mean with +20% Necklace you reach the max stacks (5) of fiery faith when you are at or below 55 (=150*1,2-5*25=180-125) HP. Castigate seems to be correct around 34-35 (0,2*180=36).
So max Stacks for fiery faith are at (with/without +20%HP-Necklace) at 55/25 HP, first Castigate buff at 79/74 HP, second castigate buff at 35/29 HP.

2.) All kinds of healing get increased, including THP and HOTs (I dont understand yet how this works with HOTs, since most of them give you only like 1 HP at a time... is it actually counting Numbers like 1,2 and just not listing the values? Or do Hots "tick" faster?)

3.) Same as 2.)

4.) -

5.) Rapier can shoot while blocking, good VS Berserkers/PlagueMonks. There might be more to this.

6.) -

7.) -

8.) Yes, weapons can have a greater block/push-angle then 180.

9.) -


So I dont have answers on 4.), 6.), 7.) 9.) and the answers on 2.), 3.) and 5.) could still be expanded.

Thx for the help :empirecross:

1) it should be 6 stacks if you have at least 151 hp. As you wrote all 25 missing green hp give you a stack.
Yes, castigate 2 should trigger around 35 hp if you have +20% hp.

2) The + heal talent affects according to my tests every single source of healing. So draughts, kits, elf aura, temp hp, NB. It doesn't show stuff like 0.5 but keeps them. If you stack high enough you can hit 2 per tick with NB or elfreg. But zealot doesn't really want either.

3) as 2.

4) I'd say it doesn't have a clipsize, thats likely the problem.

5) Not too sure what you mean with more to it?
Outside of zooming the only other special i'd know is billhooks super stagger pull.

6) Can't give any exact numbers but any 2h (non elf) or shield slows you down on block and lowers your dodge distance (armory has stats on dodge).

7) The higher the better. Inner push angle has more power than outer, inner block angle costs less to block. According to the armory the sword has a smaller (120°) block angle. It also has a tooltip that says push radius is the range in meter you get on pushing enemies.

9) Can't help with that one. Haven't seen any list with exact numbers or a function like the breakpoint calculator.

[Tight Sphinct MD]

Healing talents add a percentage per tick, so Boon of Shallya and Natural Bond would give 1.3 hp per tick instead of 1 from Natural Bond.

This is where things become less defined. Slowdown from blocking(alt fire) is 'based' on the weapons heft. So blocking with a thin rapier you are faster than a big shield or halberd. I don't have concrete answers here, just feels and experience.

I don't know what a meter is in this game. I do know that the higher the radius, the more range your push has. This should say push range for simplicity, but since it refers to an angle it doesn't..

You push and block at 360 always, push/block angle dictates whether your pushes/blocks count as inside the radius or outside that radius(inner/outer block cost modifier in the Armory)Enemies close enough to be 'inside' or behind you cost more to block, aren't pushed as much, and blocked attacks have a heavier movement penalty. It is weird the push radius.

That stagger resistance number doesn't mean much to me, either. Stagger is based on enemy mass, stagger cleave limit of weapons, mass modifiers(like linesman and tank), Power and stagger resistance. So if an attack has a 'Tank' modifier, it will have a stagger bonus against enemies with the Tank modifier.

As you said, weapons really need more detailed stagger info. Hopefully others have exact knowledge of how each of these is calculated

[Barath]

Originally posted by Fryskar:

1) it should be 6 stacks if you have at least 151 hp. As you wrote all 25 missing green hp give you a stack.
Yes, castigate 2 should trigger around 35 hp if you have +20% hp.

That would seem logical, but my tests seem to imply there is a max of 5 stacks (as said I havent tested much yet). Have you (or anybody else) had more then 5 stacks in the current version of the game?

Originally posted by Fryskar:

2) The + heal talent affects according to my tests every single source of healing. So draughts, kits, elf aura, temp hp, NB. It doesn't show stuff like 0.5 but keeps them. If you stack high enough you can hit 2 per tick with NB or elfreg. But zealot doesn't really want either.

3) as 2.

Thx, those points are completly clear now

Originally posted by Fryskar:

4) I'd say it doesn't have a clipsize, thats likely the problem.

... omg... now that you say it it seems so obvious and I feel kinda stupid. Thx

Originally posted by Fryskar:

5) Not too sure what you mean with more to it?
Outside of zooming the only other special i'd know is billhooks super stagger pull.

Nah, its just about figuring out the niche of the rapier. It seems to be one of the most unique weapons (charged attack, good blocking, a ranged shot, etc) and I try to figure out with what class & talents its unique feats could be utilized best. At first glance I thought Bounty hunter for the blessed shots, but those would kinda be waste on the weak ranged attack of the rapier.

Originally posted by Fryskar:

6) Can't give any exact numbers but any 2h (non elf) or shield slows you down on block and lowers your dodge distance (armory has stats on dodge).

So 2H and shields slow down... others less.

Originally posted by Fryskar:

7) The higher the better. Inner push angle has more power than outer, inner block angle costs less to block. According to the armory the sword has a smaller (120°) block angle. It also has a tooltip that says push radius is the range in meter you get on pushing enemies.

I dont mean the angle, but the push radius. The explanation of the tooltip confused me more then it helped me

Originally posted by Fryskar:

9) Can't help with that one. Haven't seen any list with exact numbers or a function like the breakpoint calculator.

Yes, my neither. Weird, since staggering enemies seems to be quite the important point in game mechanics... Somebody once said, every attack staggers by a value of 1 and thats it - but then I wonder why there is a value of "stagger-resistance" in the bestiary. The stagger-penetration should be modified through the enemy mass and not the resistance, shouldnt it?

[Barath]

Originally posted by NerfBeard:

Healing talents add a percentage per tick, so Boon of Shallya and Natural Bond would give 1.3 hp per tick instead of 1 from Natural Bond.

Thx. I wasnt sure if numbers smaller then 1 are a thing. Thank you for clarifying those points

Originally posted by NerfBeard:

This is where things become less defined. Slowdown from blocking(alt fire) is 'based' on the weapons heft. So blocking with a thin rapier you are faster than a big shield or halberd. I don't have concrete answers here, just feels and experience.

Ok, thx. Guess that should be enough but I kinda like numbers, so im gonna keep looking for that one :)

Originally posted by NerfBeard:

I don't know what a meter is in this game. I do know that the higher the radius, the more range your push has. This should say push range for simplicity, but since it refers to an angle it doesn't..

I guess, since the game is from Europe its the metric measurement of distance: Meter (roughly 3 foot). This is what I thought at first - in this case Sword&Shield would have the best push (except from the angle). But the tooltip seems to imply otherwise, so I am still a bit confused.

Originally posted by NerfBeard:

You push and block at 360 always, push/block angle dictates whether your pushes/blocks count as inside the radius or outside that radius(inner/outer block cost modifier in the Armory)Enemies close enough to be 'inside' or behind you cost more to block, aren't pushed as much, and blocked attacks have a heavier movement penalty. It is weird the push radius.

Ah yeah. Thx. My question was aimed on the angle of the "inner push-radius", since the basic-maximum for all weapons seems to be 180 and everything above 180 is kinda behind you... so I wondered if you could boost the block/push-angle above 180 or if it is capped at that angle.

Originally posted by NerfBeard:

That stagger resistance number doesn't mean much to me, either. Stagger is based on enemy mass, stagger cleave limit of weapons, mass modifiers(like linesman and tank), Power and stagger resistance. So if an attack has a 'Tank' modifier, it will have a stagger bonus against enemies with the Tank modifier.

As you said, weapons really need more detailed stagger info. Hopefully others have exact knowledge of how each of these is calculated

Yes. The whole stagger-mechanic is still kinda confusing. I thought stagger-cleave, mass & mass modifiers only affect, if you can stagger more then one enemy in one hit...

Anyway, thx alot for your answers, they were helpful. May Sigmar bless you

[Ardariel]

Originally posted by Barath:

Originally posted by Fryskar:

1) it should be 6 stacks if you have at least 151 hp. As you wrote all 25 missing green hp give you a stack.
Yes, castigate 2 should trigger around 35 hp if you have +20% hp.

That would seem logical, but my tests seem to imply there is a max of 5 stacks (as said I havent tested much yet). Have you (or anybody else) had more then 5 stacks in the current version of the game?

Thats a widely-used build for zealot.

[Barath]

Originally posted by Ardariel:

Originally posted by Barath:

That would seem logical, but my tests seem to imply there is a max of 5 stacks (as said I havent tested much yet). Have you (or anybody else) had more then 5 stacks in the current version of the game?

Thats a widely-used build for zealot.

Ok, I wondered about this and did some longer tests.
I tested with a +20%HP Necklace (for a total of 180) and a +15%HP Necklace (for a total of 173 -ofc nobody will wear one with +15% later on, but I wanted to check for the mechanics).
In both cases there is 1 stack of "fiery faith" per 25 HP missing.
But the max-stacks are different:
For +15% the max number of stacks is 5, reached at 47 HP. In theory there should be enough room, to get a 6th stack at 22 HP, but 5 seems to be the maximum.
For +20% the max number of stacks is 6, reached at 30 HP. Again there should be a 7th stack at 5 HP, but 6 seems to be the maximum.
Interesting, but hardly important, since everybody will run the +20% on a Zealot. Just nice to know, that the maximum stacks for fiery faith are 6 and are reached at 30 HP -a s Fryskar already said. my tests just confused me a bit, cause I used smthg with less then +20% HP.

Originally posted by Fryskar:

Its 30 hp. At 34 you get the 2nd castigate buff for +20%as, at 30 you lack 150 hp for 6 stacks of power. At least i'm pretty sure that for castigate you need to be below 50% and 20% while for the regular stacks you only need to not have it as green hp.