good weapons for cleaving through mixed hordes?

[Toonett]

hello everyone! first of all thanks for your time! :)
i've been enjoying the game a lot as a pure noob, cleaving through stuff (especially with the executioner sword) 'til i played on champion difficulty.. the exec sword isn't good for dealing with mixed hordes anymore because cleave stops against armored ennemies, it takes forever to charge a heavy attack which means by the time you do that the horde killed you /:
also played with kerillian's double dagger and it doesn't have this problem, although the range is too small and it can also be an issue, especially against beastmen.
so far the only character i'm having guaranteed success with is unchained with a flaming flail because it just deals with everything really good. but i heard on higher difficulties unchained isn't really viable anymore (overheats too fast) and anyways i'd like to have some alternative chars i can play on ^^
so basically: which weapons have decent cleave, which doesn't stop on armored targets? :D
thanks a lot for your help! :)

[Big Sneeze]

On Champion and above, this simply doesn't happen and that's intentional difficulty of the game design.

If we over-simplify, there are three weapon types:
-Swarm Slappers
-Armored / Elite / Boss killers
-Mixed

If you go with a weapon that has a lot of cleaves (Swarm Slapper), you will have a grand old time until a Mauler/Stormvermin/Chaos Warrior or two decides to swim into the swarm you're slapping. This is when you have to dodge around, reposition, split the swarm up with shoving or some other movement and slap away all the cleave-able infantries so that you have the time and space to kill the armored unit. Conversely, the Armored Killer weapons would want to quickly take out the armored unit BEFORE dealing with the swarm. Mixed weapons usually get to decide based on the situation.

Much of the higher difficulties are based on the philosophy that you CAN'T just simply cleave your swing through 6 infantires, a Stormvermin and a Mauler. You'll cleave through every infantry if you're lucky, then get your swing halted by the first armored unit you hit.

[DEAD RaNgEr 888]

if you aim for the head then it hits stormvermings and other enemies too

[Toonett]

Originally posted by Immortan Tek:

On Champion and above, this simply doesn't happen and that's intentional difficulty of the game design.

If we over-simplify, there are three weapon types:
-Swarm Slappers
-Armored / Elite / Boss killers
-Mixed

If you go with a weapon that has a lot of cleaves (Swarm Slapper), you will have a grand old time until a Mauler/Stormvermin/Chaos Warrior or two decides to swim into the swarm you're slapping. This is when you have to dodge around, reposition, split the swarm up with shoving or some other movement and slap away all the cleave-able infantries so that you have the time and space to kill the armored unit. Conversely, the Armored Killer weapons would want to quickly take out the armored unit BEFORE dealing with the swarm. Mixed weapons usually get to decide based on the situation.

Much of the higher difficulties are based on the philosophy that you CAN'T just simply cleave your swing through 6 infantires, a Stormvermin and a Mauler. You'll cleave through every infantry if you're lucky, then get your swing halted by the first armored unit you hit.

thanks a lot for your reply! mwell i do cleave my way through everything with my flaming flail.. although yeah it's not the same cleave as exec sword, i can still deal with anything that's facing me, daggers can also cleave through armored so there are definitely weapons that can do that!
i was just wondering if there's any other weapon that can do it :p

Originally posted by DEAD RaNgEr 888:

if you aim for the head then it hits stormvermings and other enemies too

thanks for your reply! alright i didn't know that (didn't get to try much tbh, i mainly played with unchained x') ) thanks! though yeah that's not super reliable (i mean, every single hit isn't a headshot) so yeah, basically i'd just like to know if there are other weapons than flaming flail/dual daggers that can cleave through mixed hordes ^^

[DEAD RaNgEr 888]

Originally posted by remik no chat - i got it:

Originally posted by Immortan Tek:

On Champion and above, this simply doesn't happen and that's intentional difficulty of the game design.

If we over-simplify, there are three weapon types:
-Swarm Slappers
-Armored / Elite / Boss killers
-Mixed

If you go with a weapon that has a lot of cleaves (Swarm Slapper), you will have a grand old time until a Mauler/Stormvermin/Chaos Warrior or two decides to swim into the swarm you're slapping. This is when you have to dodge around, reposition, split the swarm up with shoving or some other movement and slap away all the cleave-able infantries so that you have the time and space to kill the armored unit. Conversely, the Armored Killer weapons would want to quickly take out the armored unit BEFORE dealing with the swarm. Mixed weapons usually get to decide based on the situation.

Much of the higher difficulties are based on the philosophy that you CAN'T just simply cleave your swing through 6 infantires, a Stormvermin and a Mauler. You'll cleave through every infantry if you're lucky, then get your swing halted by the first armored unit you hit.

thanks a lot for your reply! mwell i do cleave my way through everything with my flaming flail.. although yeah it's not the same cleave as exec sword, i can still deal with anything that's facing me, daggers can also cleave through armored so there are definitely weapons that can do that!
i was just wondering if there's any other weapon that can do it :p

Originally posted by DEAD RaNgEr 888:

if you aim for the head then it hits stormvermings and other enemies too

thanks for your reply! alright i didn't know that (didn't get to try much tbh, i mainly played with unchained x') ) thanks! though yeah that's not super reliable (i mean, every single hit isn't a headshot) so yeah, basically i'd just like to know if there are other weapons than flaming flail/dual daggers that can cleave through mixed hordes ^^ [/quotegreatswords charged attacks can cut through mixed hordes, it does really low dmg against armor though

[Deja Vu]

Pretty much all weapons stop on armored targets, but there's some leeway. Some may cleave through 3 or 4 Stormvermin then stop, others stop at the first. Nothing I know of cleaves through a Chaos Warrior.

You can test the weapons yourself by stacking target dummies in a row and hitting them (there are 3 unarmored and 2 armored dummies hiding in the training area). Pick them up and put them in a line.

Don't forget to test multiple attacks, not just multiple weapons. Dual Sword heavy attacks cleave over armor but the light attacks don't for example.

You can also get more cleave by getting headshots, critical hits, having higher power, or by staggering your targets first. All of those give bonus cleave rating.

Most weapons have a cleave falloff, doing less damage to each target in a row. While most weapons can cleave at least a little, dedicated cleave weapons (Dual Swords, 2h Sword, Executioner Sword, 1h Sword, Dual Hammers) have much less of this falloff.

Also look at Fire Sword/Dagger if you like Sienna, they have an uncapped AOE as their first heavy attack. Other notable mentions include 2h Hammer, Halberd, Sword+Dagger, Mace+Sword.

[Danyaell]

Curious that you can cleave through hordes with Double Daggers.

Not sure if this is what you're after but Axe and Falchion on Zealot get the job done.

In Champion+, like stated above, you can't just hack and slash through hordes like a maniac anymore. You need to block/push, position, dodge etc.

[Don Kanaille]

Halberd is pretty good at dealing with mixed hordes as it mixes sweeps to keep the masses at by with powerful overheads to take down armored targets fast. However using it does slow you down a lot.

Personlly I prefer the Tuskgor Spear. It´s main attacks are thrusts, which sounds like they should be awful versus hordes, but they´re not that bad. However it really shines in having a wide sweeping push attack combined with superb mobility even when charging attacks. Generally I use a combination of wide sweep push attacks to stagger everything in front of me with charged attacks at tougher enemies´ heads while the horde is recovering. The range on those charged thrusts is so long you can poke many enemies to death from outside their attack range.

If you just want to whack lots of enemies around and not care for their armor much you can also try two handed hammers - their charged attacks specifically. However, as others have said, there is no weapon that lets you just shred a varied clump of enemies with left click only.

[Toonett]

thank you very much for all those detailed answers guys! :)
and especially thank you Deja Vu, i'm going to look into these weapons and see what I like! :)

alright so you're right, i did some testing in game and.. yeah, even with flaming flail or dagger i don't get through armored ennemies, i even stop on the 2nd or 3rd light one! x')
it's just that with the high attack speed it's not much of a problem and you can still cleave through mixed hordes!

So yeah I guess the lmb spam won't work in higher difficulties (already doesn't for most weapons in champion) so i guess i just have to get good and stop spamming!
thanks a lot for the help guys, i'm gonna train! ^^

[Rebel]

Greatsword.

[Danyaell]

Originally posted by remik no chat - i got it:

thank you very much for all those detailed answers guys! :)
and especially thank you Deja Vu, i'm going to look into these weapons and see what I like! :)

alright so you're right, i did some testing in game and.. yeah, even with flaming flail or dagger i don't get through armored ennemies, i even stop on the 2nd or 3rd light one! x')
it's just that with the high attack speed it's not much of a problem and you can still cleave through mixed hordes!

So yeah I guess the lmb spam won't work in higher difficulties (already doesn't for most weapons in champion) so i guess i just have to get good and stop spamming!
thanks a lot for the help guys, i'm gonna train! ^^

And also know when it is the right time use the weapons' heavy attack. :)

[Toonett]

Originally posted by Rebel:

Greatsword.

well i tried it, it doesn't cleave through armor at all /:

Originally posted by Danyaell:

Originally posted by remik no chat - i got it:

thank you very much for all those detailed answers guys! :)
and especially thank you Deja Vu, i'm going to look into these weapons and see what I like! :)

alright so you're right, i did some testing in game and.. yeah, even with flaming flail or dagger i don't get through armored ennemies, i even stop on the 2nd or 3rd light one! x')
it's just that with the high attack speed it's not much of a problem and you can still cleave through mixed hordes!

So yeah I guess the lmb spam won't work in higher difficulties (already doesn't for most weapons in champion) so i guess i just have to get good and stop spamming!
thanks a lot for the help guys, i'm gonna train! ^^

And also know when it is the right time use the weapons' heavy attack. :)

alright yeah, i using the heavy attack right that i've got ^^

[Snugwow]

Originally posted by remik no chat - i got it:

Originally posted by Rebel:

Greatsword.

well i tried it, it doesn't cleave through armor at all /:

Bro the Greatsword is one of the only weapons in the game that can cleave through multiple armored enemies and deal damage to all of them at the same time - but with the heavy attacks. Only shields will stop it, but you can't just spam the light attack with it since armor stops that other than headshots.
I use it on mercenary in Legend and Cataclysm and I use heavy attacks more often than light attacks typically. The overhead swing pushattack also cleaves through multiple enemies.

[Wyked]

Executioner Sword has unlimited cleave if its hitting heads, its easily one of the best horde clearing weapons, just gotta aim a bit higher and dont face tank hordes. Attack push when needed but really you can just swing away with that things, hence why its called the "Excutioners Sword" lol

[Deja Vu]

Make sure you mean Kruber/Salz greatsword and use heavy attacks; elf greatsword does not cleave armor.

[Toonett]

oh ok on heavy attacks! ^^ yeah I tried with lights, mb!

been playing with kruber and executioner sword and been doing very well, basically either i cleave heads or if it's not possible (different head levels) i bash, dash back, charge the heavy attack and execute that armored guy before cleaving throud the horde again!

in the end it adds a layer of complexity and the game is even more fun, even if sometimes you can get in rough positions (like a horde plus 3 or 4 chaos warriors)! :p

thanks again for all the help! :)